October Europe Trip Itinerary
Dec 14th, 2021, 06:12 PM
#41
sassafrass speaks truth 
In actuality, unless maybe one is driving there is no magic in a 'circular' route.
"My sister would like to see some little mid France villages, hence Lyon where we will do day trips from"
As mentioned, the 3 nights you've allocated to Lyon will net you two days to play with. So not really possible to do day trips, as in plural. I do think you are still thinking in 'list-mode' and not as an actual, doable 'itinerary'.
In actuality, unless maybe one is driving there is no magic in a 'circular' route. "My sister would like to see some little mid France villages, hence Lyon where we will do day trips from"
As mentioned, the 3 nights you've allocated to Lyon will net you two days to play with. So not really possible to do day trips, as in plural. I do think you are still thinking in 'list-mode' and not as an actual, doable 'itinerary'.
Dec 14th, 2021, 10:22 PM
#42
How about reversing your itinerary… fly into Amsterdam, do your trip in reverse, and spend your last 5 nights in Paris then fly home from there. On most airline sites, you want to look for the multi-city ticketing option (aka open jaw).
Dec 15th, 2021, 12:50 AM
#43
your sister has confused the EU with Europe. For example Georgia is very much eastern Europe/western Asia about 3000 km east of Vienna. Barcelona, for example, is only 1800 km to the west of Vienna. Ask someone in Romania or Ukraine if they live in Asia and wait for the look of shock.
Dec 15th, 2021, 07:06 AM
#44
Just checking in again after having ignored this thread for a while. I am mostly noticing that you are listing cities and the number of days without really knowing how many days certain cities "deserve" (in terms of limited time). Otherwise, I am a big fan of circle trips so I have no complaints about that but you have not really mentioned what you want to SEE. The name of a city is not enough if you don't know what is there.
Dec 15th, 2021, 09:00 AM
#45
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless you have something in your appearance that makes you stand out in some way that might frighten people or attract unwanted attention, I see no reason you would be unsafe in the cities on the tour. Many Fodorites have been to those cities. Perhaps they will share their experiences with you. Look for trip reports on that area.
Any place can have a safety issue. I am sure you know not to flash money about or wear costly jewelry while sightseeing. You mentioned that you have traveled in South Asia. You can be assured and confident that Europe will be easy and safe. Just stay aware of your surroundings.
If you are doing a trip starting from your home or from a city from which you have round trip tickets, a circular tour makes sense. Otherwise, the shape of a trip is irrelevant. In this case, it is an arbitrary framework that is limiting the OP’s choices to a list.
Any place can have a safety issue. I am sure you know not to flash money about or wear costly jewelry while sightseeing. You mentioned that you have traveled in South Asia. You can be assured and confident that Europe will be easy and safe. Just stay aware of your surroundings.
If you are doing a trip starting from your home or from a city from which you have round trip tickets, a circular tour makes sense. Otherwise, the shape of a trip is irrelevant. In this case, it is an arbitrary framework that is limiting the OP’s choices to a list.
Dec 15th, 2021, 08:04 PM
#46
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last edited by Sassafrass; Dec 15th, 2021 at 08:09 PM. Reason: More info
Dec 15th, 2021, 08:13 PM
#47
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://blog.eurail.com/cities-for-a...ure-in-europe/
sorry, think this is the same article already posted. Anyway, you mentioned an interest in architecture. It might be fun to focus a bit on specific buildings you want to see.
sorry, think this is the same article already posted. Anyway, you mentioned an interest in architecture. It might be fun to focus a bit on specific buildings you want to see.
Last edited by Sassafrass; Dec 15th, 2021 at 08:17 PM.
Jan 16th, 2022, 06:27 PM
#48
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UPDATE:
So after many discussions, my sister and i have decided not to go together after all, as it has become stressful trying to pare down the destinations and still go where we want to go, and we may not be able to take the same time off together anyway. I think we will be taking separate trips.
I think I know what reaction my next words are going to have, but I'll put it out there anyway.
I want to book a trip with Tourradar.
I do understand the risks. I've looked in the company's policy for cancellations and refunds and i know that they will probably only offer credit if i have to cancel, which i'm willing to risk, as i'll probably want to use them in the future still if that happens. I've read reviews from disgruntled customers and I think i'm prepared for issues i may have to face using this company.
These are the tours i'm looking at, among others:
https://www.tourradar.com/t/203999
https://www.tourradar.com/t/180534
These tours won't actually provide a tour guide, as they're digital tours, so i'll be following a suggested itinerary without someone else with me.
Though I know a lot of you may have a lot to say about this, I'm open to hearing all advice.
So after many discussions, my sister and i have decided not to go together after all, as it has become stressful trying to pare down the destinations and still go where we want to go, and we may not be able to take the same time off together anyway. I think we will be taking separate trips.
I think I know what reaction my next words are going to have, but I'll put it out there anyway.
I want to book a trip with Tourradar.
I do understand the risks. I've looked in the company's policy for cancellations and refunds and i know that they will probably only offer credit if i have to cancel, which i'm willing to risk, as i'll probably want to use them in the future still if that happens. I've read reviews from disgruntled customers and I think i'm prepared for issues i may have to face using this company.
These are the tours i'm looking at, among others:
https://www.tourradar.com/t/203999
https://www.tourradar.com/t/180534
These tours won't actually provide a tour guide, as they're digital tours, so i'll be following a suggested itinerary without someone else with me.
Though I know a lot of you may have a lot to say about this, I'm open to hearing all advice.
Jan 16th, 2022, 07:47 PM
#49
I just looked at the first itinerary link and it is flat out insane. Out of 45 days there are 19 travel days. So almost 45% of your time will be in transit - not seeing/doing anything. Just because something is cheap and trendy doesn't mean it is a good use of either time or money.
Didn't bother looking at the 2nd link . . .
Didn't bother looking at the 2nd link . . .
Jan 16th, 2022, 09:57 PM
#50
Just looked at the 2nd link . . . 29 days hitting 13destinations, with 12 travel days plus one overnight ferry.
That itinerary is slightly better because you would get 3 days in Rome and 2.5 days in a couple of other places but mostly 1.5 day stops. Still a big % of the trip would be in transit
That itinerary is slightly better because you would get 3 days in Rome and 2.5 days in a couple of other places but mostly 1.5 day stops. Still a big % of the trip would be in transit
Jan 17th, 2022, 01:45 AM
#51
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree 100% with Janisj. The first itinerary is “insane.’ Perfect description. It ends in Santorini. The OP has to then fly back to his city of departure for home - on his own. Perhaps he could depart from Athens. This trip will end up costing a lot more than the OP thinks. More on the itinerary later.
Tour radar is NOT a tour company. It is a booking agency. Do you prefer to book directly with airlines or through a third party like Expedia? Do you prefer to book a cruise directly with the cruise line or with a third party like vacationstogo.com? Do you book hotels directly or through something like booking.com? Here is the difference. If something goes wrong, the Agency may say you have to deal with the actual tour companies involved. The tour companies may say you have to deal with the booking agency. You have little to no leverage to make either of them take responsibility. The contract with the agency almost always excludes responsibility for failure of transportation services, hotels, contracted tours, etc.
That is not saying not to use an agency. I have sometimes for convenience, or perks from being a repeat customer or because I like a particular rep, but only those I am familiar with and when I already know exactly what I want and what I am getting. For example, I have used vacationstogo several times, but I picked the ship, the itinerary and the cabins, and pick a rep who is familiar with the cruise line, ship I want and the itinerary.
I did not just say, book me on a cruise. I would never use a rep to book things in Italy if they had never been to Italy.
That is kind of what you are doing. Saying, “Book me on a trip” I don’t care where I stay, how I get to museums, who is in charge, etc. Are you even speaking personally with their reps about what you want to see and do? “Personally, I would book with an actual tour company and know which hotels or hostels I would be staying in. A third party agency is fine, if their reputation is good and if you know what you want and what you are getting. Do not disregard the reviews. It also looks as if much of your trip is not on a real tour. Who do you go to if things go downhill?
BTW, at least one of the itineraries (I only looked at one) really zigzags about. This is exactly the opposite of what you have said all along that you wanted. Do not be mislead by the number of days they say you have in each place. At least half or most of one of those days will be eaten up with travel to each new place. You thought Barcelona was too far South, now? Greece was out of the way? Now?
Will this be easier or better than planning your own trip? Don’t know, but the first itinerary is a mess.
Tour radar is NOT a tour company. It is a booking agency. Do you prefer to book directly with airlines or through a third party like Expedia? Do you prefer to book a cruise directly with the cruise line or with a third party like vacationstogo.com? Do you book hotels directly or through something like booking.com? Here is the difference. If something goes wrong, the Agency may say you have to deal with the actual tour companies involved. The tour companies may say you have to deal with the booking agency. You have little to no leverage to make either of them take responsibility. The contract with the agency almost always excludes responsibility for failure of transportation services, hotels, contracted tours, etc.
That is not saying not to use an agency. I have sometimes for convenience, or perks from being a repeat customer or because I like a particular rep, but only those I am familiar with and when I already know exactly what I want and what I am getting. For example, I have used vacationstogo several times, but I picked the ship, the itinerary and the cabins, and pick a rep who is familiar with the cruise line, ship I want and the itinerary.
I did not just say, book me on a cruise. I would never use a rep to book things in Italy if they had never been to Italy.
That is kind of what you are doing. Saying, “Book me on a trip” I don’t care where I stay, how I get to museums, who is in charge, etc. Are you even speaking personally with their reps about what you want to see and do? “Personally, I would book with an actual tour company and know which hotels or hostels I would be staying in. A third party agency is fine, if their reputation is good and if you know what you want and what you are getting. Do not disregard the reviews. It also looks as if much of your trip is not on a real tour. Who do you go to if things go downhill?
BTW, at least one of the itineraries (I only looked at one) really zigzags about. This is exactly the opposite of what you have said all along that you wanted. Do not be mislead by the number of days they say you have in each place. At least half or most of one of those days will be eaten up with travel to each new place. You thought Barcelona was too far South, now? Greece was out of the way? Now?
Will this be easier or better than planning your own trip? Don’t know, but the first itinerary is a mess.
Jan 17th, 2022, 03:52 PM
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would never use a rep to book things in Italy if they had never been to Italy.
That is kind of what you are doing. Saying, “Book me on a trip” I don’t care where I stay, how I get to museums, who is in charge, etc. Are you even speaking personally with their reps about what you want to see and do? “Personally, I would book with an actual tour company and know which hotels or hostels I would be staying in. A third party agency is fine, if their reputation is good and if you know what you want and what you are getting. Do not disregard the reviews. It also looks as if much of your trip is not on a real tour. Who do you go to if things go downhill?
That is kind of what you are doing. Saying, “Book me on a trip” I don’t care where I stay, how I get to museums, who is in charge, etc. Are you even speaking personally with their reps about what you want to see and do? “Personally, I would book with an actual tour company and know which hotels or hostels I would be staying in. A third party agency is fine, if their reputation is good and if you know what you want and what you are getting. Do not disregard the reviews. It also looks as if much of your trip is not on a real tour. Who do you go to if things go downhill?
I've gone through reviews of Tourradar, bad ones first, but as many bad ones as there are, there seem to be just as many good ones. And a lot of the complaints i read could have been avoided if they had read the policies and refund information on the website as i did, because what they're upset about is already explained there.. Some people have great customer service experiences, some terrible ones. It's hard to know what to believe.
The provided information also says they have 27/4 customer helpline or something like that, so it's not like i would be completely helpless.
I do however think it would be better with an actual tour guide, at least then if there are changes to covid rules and such in countries, they'll be the one who can figure out what to do.
Jan 18th, 2022, 09:16 AM
#53
"but as many bad ones as there are, there seem to be just as many good ones. . . ."
I personally would never choose a tour or book a hotel or buy a product that had 'just as many good reviews as bad ones'. I don't pay a huge amount of attention to individual reviews but if awful/inadequate/so so is about equal to excellent/acceptable/so so . . . you pretty much know the company/product is very mediocre . . . IME
I personally would never choose a tour or book a hotel or buy a product that had 'just as many good reviews as bad ones'. I don't pay a huge amount of attention to individual reviews but if awful/inadequate/so so is about equal to excellent/acceptable/so so . . . you pretty much know the company/product is very mediocre . . . IME
Jan 18th, 2022, 10:27 AM
#54
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"but as many bad ones as there are, there seem to be just as many good ones. . . ."
I personally would never choose a tour or book a hotel or buy a product that had 'just as many good reviews as bad ones'. I don't pay a huge amount of attention to individual reviews but if awful/inadequate/so so is about equal to excellent/acceptable/so so . . . you pretty much know the company/product is very mediocre . . . IME
I personally would never choose a tour or book a hotel or buy a product that had 'just as many good reviews as bad ones'. I don't pay a huge amount of attention to individual reviews but if awful/inadequate/so so is about equal to excellent/acceptable/so so . . . you pretty much know the company/product is very mediocre . . . IME
I want mostly good reviews. Example: picking a hotel or BnB, or some other kind of product, I want positives to be in the 90% or better, but I also pay close attention to what is actually said in both bad and good reviews. Sometimes there is one thing that strongly appeals to me or one thing that is a real turnoff, regardless of other positives or negatives.
I did go back and look at the expanded information on the first itinerary the OP is considering. If I were considering it, I would look up each hostel or hotel, map out a schedule of travel times and figure out all the extra costs of food and attractions and flight costs to see if the final cost made sense.
However, the real turnoff for me is the crazy itinerary, which is bad enough IMHO that it would not be worth the time to do more research on it.
OTOH, you are young and want to cover a lot of ground, so it might be just fine for you. You must be aware and cautious about all the extra costs.
What is your total budget for the land part of this trip? What four or five sites or cities are most important to you?
You may feel overwhelmed, but really, you can do this. You will feel less overwhelmed if you take it one step at a time. Start with the question of most important places for you personally to see. You have still not done that. That is key. Nail that down! Post them. Then people can help you design an itinerary that makes sense logistically, or you can find one or more tours that will take you to those places.
They are not inexpensive, but a Rick Steves tour might be great for you.
Jan 18th, 2022, 12:41 PM
#55
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If dropping down to Barcelona from Avignon, then flying to Venice seemed to be backtracking, the tour you are looking at is one huge zigzag, basically a lot of backtracking. I suggested Barcelona because you wanted to see a bit of Spain and I know there are usually direct flights from Barcelona to Venice, making that an easy connection. One thing I do like is the inclusion of London, but then other places should be removed.
Jan 18th, 2022, 01:03 PM
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, the first trip does seem to go against everything I wanted in the first place. It was just an idea and I think there will be better options.
I've found a tour that's a bit simpler and seems like it would hit all the basic places I'd like to see, minus Prague, which I would still really like to visit.
https://www.voyista.com/voyista/trip...?airport=nullI like a lot of the tours available here. I haven't seen or heard of this company before, but I'm in contact with a rep asking questions about it and it seems to be legit. Any advice for questions I should be asking?
I've found a tour that's a bit simpler and seems like it would hit all the basic places I'd like to see, minus Prague, which I would still really like to visit.
https://www.voyista.com/voyista/trip...?airport=nullI like a lot of the tours available here. I haven't seen or heard of this company before, but I'm in contact with a rep asking questions about it and it seems to be legit. Any advice for questions I should be asking?
Jan 18th, 2022, 01:17 PM
#57
The offerings from voyista seem very similar to the ones on tour radar. These seem to be sort of 'social media driven' sites that get you from place to place and drop you in a hostel and leave the rest to you. They are NOT traditional tour companies. You are basically on your own for everything else besides intercity transport and basic accommodations.
If that is all you are getting there is no reason you couldn't do this on your own. Understand -- they are not 'tours' in any traditional definition of the word . . .
If you want a TOUR - then book a (real) tour. If you prefer this non-tour model -- then forget about paying these middlemen and do it yourself.
If that is all you are getting there is no reason you couldn't do this on your own. Understand -- they are not 'tours' in any traditional definition of the word . . .
If you want a TOUR - then book a (real) tour. If you prefer this non-tour model -- then forget about paying these middlemen and do it yourself.
Jan 19th, 2022, 01:47 AM
#58
If getting over-faced by the opportunities is a problem then I suggest cut it into fewer pieces and that might as well be by country. The easy one to simplify and run yourself would be London (you clearly have the language skills) and yes it is a little different but nothing that a smart person can't deal with. Then find someone for say Italy, Spain etc. The benefit is they would actually know the country you are looking at and the rules to get into the country. Then just use the train or fly between using cheepo airlines (whose sites will tell you recent Covid rules)
When stuff gets too big, cut it up.
When stuff gets too big, cut it up.
Jan 19th, 2022, 08:45 AM
#59
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What you have found with Voyista is an itinerary for which they will book hostels and some transportation between and within cities. They are another booking agent, not a tour company. You may have an app to give you information, but you will be on your own for food, sights, museums, etc. That is easy, but costs add up. Look at the cost of this booking for October, the time you are going. It is way more than the low cost listed for current bookings. Add your other expenses for real costs.
The hostels in this itinerary get good reviews and are super cheap for dorm rooms. Do you wish to be in a multi-person dorm, and do you mind dorms shared with both men and women? You might want to look up what they actually cost and see what you would spend if you booked them yourself.
I quite like “most” of this itinerary. It is fast paced, but fine for a young person like you. You could easily use that itinerary as the structure for your trip, tweaking it where necessary to fit your wishes, even substituting cities or days in them in case you want to do day trips, and then book hostels for yourself. The order of the itinerary could be adjusted to match the best flights from Australia.
Your trip is nine months away. You have plenty of time. You do not have to get this pinned down today. Do not book anything with any company yet. Don’t let any rep talk you into signing up yet. Do this for yourself first. You may decide to go ahead with a company, but you will have more confidence in your decisions.
Take an hour or two to write out your itinerary, including travel days.
Take one evening to review hostels and pick one or two in each major city.
Since you will have all of that information, an evening booking them later will be easy, when you are ready.
Plan the sights you want to see in each city. Check times and days they are open. This should be fun. Just do it city by city.
BTW, IMHO, those orientation bus tours around cities or HOHO in London, Paris and Barcelona are truly horrible and a waste of time. Take a walking tour or use the time to actually see a major sight.
The hostels in this itinerary get good reviews and are super cheap for dorm rooms. Do you wish to be in a multi-person dorm, and do you mind dorms shared with both men and women? You might want to look up what they actually cost and see what you would spend if you booked them yourself.
I quite like “most” of this itinerary. It is fast paced, but fine for a young person like you. You could easily use that itinerary as the structure for your trip, tweaking it where necessary to fit your wishes, even substituting cities or days in them in case you want to do day trips, and then book hostels for yourself. The order of the itinerary could be adjusted to match the best flights from Australia.
Your trip is nine months away. You have plenty of time. You do not have to get this pinned down today. Do not book anything with any company yet. Don’t let any rep talk you into signing up yet. Do this for yourself first. You may decide to go ahead with a company, but you will have more confidence in your decisions.
Take an hour or two to write out your itinerary, including travel days.
Take one evening to review hostels and pick one or two in each major city.
Since you will have all of that information, an evening booking them later will be easy, when you are ready.
Plan the sights you want to see in each city. Check times and days they are open. This should be fun. Just do it city by city.
BTW, IMHO, those orientation bus tours around cities or HOHO in London, Paris and Barcelona are truly horrible and a waste of time. Take a walking tour or use the time to actually see a major sight.
Jan 20th, 2022, 01:40 PM
#60
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I appreciate the advice everyone is giving me. Thank you guys.
After some thinking, and asking my dad for help (who has planned many a trip) I think i might be able to book independently after all.
So here is my updated hopeful itinerary, greatly pared down for simplicity, day by day:
Day 0- Arrive in Paris (depending what time i arrive, could be day 1, but i'll probably want time to recover from the long flight.)
Day 1- Paris (local walking tours, eg. Père Lachaise Cemetery, Montemarte, food, art, museums)
Day 2- Paris (day trip, eg. Versailles, Loire Valley, Champagne ect) (haven't chosen yet)
Day 3- Paris (rest/walk/shop)
Day 4- Travel to Nice (train)
Day 5- Nice (day trip French Riviera)
Day 6- Nice (day trip Provence)
Day 7- Nice (local tour, eg. Old Town)
Day 8- Travel to Florence (train)
Day 9- Florence (day trip eg. Tuscany)
Day 10- Florence (day trip eg. Cinque Terre)
Day 11- Florence (local tour, eg museums)
Day 12- Travel to Venice (train)
Day 13- Venice (day trip eg. Murano, Burano, Torcello)
Day 14- Venice (local tour eg. gondola, food tour, ect)
Day 15- Travel to Prague (train or fly, idk if 10+ hours on a train is worth it lol)
Day 16- Prague (day trip eg. Cesky Krumlov)
Day 17- Prague (local tour eg. walking, cruise, ect)
Day 18- Travel to Amsterdam (train or fly)
Day 19- Amsterdam (day trip eg. Rotterdam, Delft, Hague, countryside ect)
Day 20- Amsterdam (local tours eg. museums, canals, cafes)
Day 21- Amsterdam (rest, walk, shop)
Day 22- Depart Amsterdam (can also be end of Day 21, depending on flight times)
It's shorter than i originally wanted, and maybe it's still too rushed, idk. Thoughts?
After some thinking, and asking my dad for help (who has planned many a trip) I think i might be able to book independently after all.
So here is my updated hopeful itinerary, greatly pared down for simplicity, day by day:
Day 0- Arrive in Paris (depending what time i arrive, could be day 1, but i'll probably want time to recover from the long flight.)
Day 1- Paris (local walking tours, eg. Père Lachaise Cemetery, Montemarte, food, art, museums)
Day 2- Paris (day trip, eg. Versailles, Loire Valley, Champagne ect) (haven't chosen yet)
Day 3- Paris (rest/walk/shop)
Day 4- Travel to Nice (train)
Day 5- Nice (day trip French Riviera)
Day 6- Nice (day trip Provence)
Day 7- Nice (local tour, eg. Old Town)
Day 8- Travel to Florence (train)
Day 9- Florence (day trip eg. Tuscany)
Day 10- Florence (day trip eg. Cinque Terre)
Day 11- Florence (local tour, eg museums)
Day 12- Travel to Venice (train)
Day 13- Venice (day trip eg. Murano, Burano, Torcello)
Day 14- Venice (local tour eg. gondola, food tour, ect)
Day 15- Travel to Prague (train or fly, idk if 10+ hours on a train is worth it lol)
Day 16- Prague (day trip eg. Cesky Krumlov)
Day 17- Prague (local tour eg. walking, cruise, ect)
Day 18- Travel to Amsterdam (train or fly)
Day 19- Amsterdam (day trip eg. Rotterdam, Delft, Hague, countryside ect)
Day 20- Amsterdam (local tours eg. museums, canals, cafes)
Day 21- Amsterdam (rest, walk, shop)
Day 22- Depart Amsterdam (can also be end of Day 21, depending on flight times)
It's shorter than i originally wanted, and maybe it's still too rushed, idk. Thoughts?
