PCtravels

Hey! My husband and me are planning a 12 day vacation to Europe early may. We are torn apart between doing Northern Italy and Greece (Santorini & Mykonos) only or UK & Ireland.

We both like a mix of the country, love the water and good vegetarian food! We both are also very fond of driving, so can do a road trip for any number of days.

Northern Italy & Greece - While seems like a great combination of it all, we can barely cover enough of just north of Italy in a week's time. Was thinking more like flying into Milan, visiting lake Como and Florence and Venice and fly out of there to Greece. There's no time to visit Cinque Terra which has been on my list for a while. Any suggestions on how we can do the best of northern italy within a week?
For Greece we are pretty ok to spend 2 nights in mykonos and 3 in santorini and get ready to head back home.

UK, Scotland & Ireland - I have no idea if 12 days is enough time to get a feel of it all? Don't mind doing only Scotland & Ireland too. Any suggestions on how we can plan this out? Also are there any good beaches around?

Would appreciate any/all of your help!

willit

Everybody has different ways of travelling, but my personal view is either of your plans is very over ambitious for such a short length of time. Even the Italy portion alone would leave you with very little time at any of the stops as you would lose at least half a day with every move.

Similarly, UK and Ireland in 12 days is a huge ask - how much do you really wish to see - you could split 12 days between London, Edinburgh and Dublin, but that barely scratches the surface.

Heimdall

<i>"While seems like a great combination of it all, we can barely cover enough of just north of Italy in a week's time."</i>

You said it all in just that one sentence! If you opt for Italy, spend the whole 12 days in that country. While Mykonos and Santorini get the publicity, that's not where I would choose to go on a short trip to Greece.

thursdaysd

When you say 12 days, does that include travel time? If so you only have 10 days. As already pointed out, that is barely enough for one country.

I would not visit Scotland or Ireland in early May, but the flowers in southern England should be beautiful. I would do London with day trips, plus either Bath or York, or I suppose you could do London and Edinburgh, flying into one and out of the other.

Print off a blank calendar page (lots of free ones on the net) and lay this out night by night, bearing in mind that two nights in a place gets you one full day, and add in travel time.

For European train travel see seat61.com, for cheap flights see skyscanner.com.

Do you mean THIS May, because if so you need to make a decision pronto.

bilboburgler

I'd do Greece or Italy in May (not and), and save Scotland to June

LizDMac2424

We are planning an Ireland trip this summer, so I don't have alot of personal experience (yet!). However, we did 2 weeks in Italy this past summer. We did Florence, Sorrento, and Rome as bases (have already done Venice).

For 12 days, stick to just Italy and don't add on Greece. If you really want to see Cinque Terre, do it! It's your trip. We actually booked a tour from Florence to Cinque Terre. It was one of my favorite things we did. Super long day, but amazing. The bus picked us up in Florence and took us to the train station. Between trains, hiking, and a boat ride, we hit all 5 towns. Not sure your hiking level but the hike was doable (not easy but totally doable) and they gave you ample time. Probably one of the most beautiful hikes of my life. Sure, Cinque Terre was crowded (I take that back. The trains were crowded and some of the towns but a few of the smaller ones were so peaceful. Will never forget sticking my feet in the water at our first stop and feeling at peace) but it was so worth it! Watch out for pickpocketers on these trains if you do this. Our tour company was amazing and literally started calling them out when they saw them.

If you decide on Italy, message me and I have a few Venice and Florence tips. I also hope you mean next May cause you are going to hard pushed for lodging if it is this May!

LizDMac2424

We are planning an Ireland trip this summer, so I don't have alot of personal experience (yet!). However, we did 2 weeks in Italy this past summer. We did Florence, Sorrento, and Rome as bases (have already done Venice).

For 12 days, stick to just Italy and don't add on Greece. If you really want to see Cinque Terre, do it! It's your trip. We actually booked a tour from Florence to Cinque Terre. It was one of my favorite things we did. Super long day, but amazing. The bus picked us up in Florence and took us to the train station. Between trains, hiking, and a boat ride, we hit all 5 towns. Not sure your hiking level but the hike was doable (not easy but totally doable) and they gave you ample time. Probably one of the most beautiful hikes of my life. Sure, Cinque Terre was crowded (I take that back. The trains were crowded and some of the towns but a few of the smaller ones were so peaceful. Will never forget sticking my feet in the water at our first stop and feeling at peace) but it was so worth it! Watch out for pickpocketers on these trains if you do this. Our tour company was amazing and literally started calling them out when they saw them.

If you decide on Italy, message me and I have a few Venice and Florence tips. I also hope you mean next May cause you are going to hard pushed for lodging if it is this May!

PCtravels

Thanks for all your suggestions.
I guess will save UK Scotland and Ireland for another time when we take more days off


For Italy, since we would be flying into Milan, is the drive from Milan to Florence a good one or Milan to Venice?

Also For Greece, @Heimdall I have heard a lot about other islands like Crete and Paros, what are your recommendations? Though Santorini looks breathtaking in all images, so would love to visit once atleast.

isabel

As everyone else said, you REALLY don't have time for Greece on that trip. If you did 3-4 nights Venice, 3-4 nights Lake Como, and 4-5 nights Florence with a day trip to Cinque Terre that would be a reasonable trip. You could even get one or two more day trips (eg from Florence to Siena or from Venice to Verona). But even if you took one night from each place and flew to Santorini you have a very rushed trip in Italy and only 2 days in Santorini. And that assumes you could fly home from there, which will probably add a lot in terms of cost.

Second, you don't want to DRIVE to Florence or Venice or anywhere else. Trains will get you to the places mentioned. Cars are only a good idea if you are going to be visiting a lot of tiny villages and rural places. Cars are much more of a pain, certainly not useful, for visiting any of the places on your list. If you are from the US and thinking trains there - it's totally different in Italy. Trains there are cheaper, faster, more frequent, go to more places, etc.

Dogeared

So you are still trying to do Italy AND Greece in this one trip?

You can lead a horse to water......................

It appears that no matter what people say, you are determined to do a version of 'list ticking' rather than spend enough time anywhere to get any real feel for the place.

How many full days on the ground will you have not including your arrival and departure day? You've already been asked that and didn't reply.

Each time you move, you lose most if not all of a day. So do NOT count those days as days you will spend IN a place. Do as thursdaysd suggested and mark the days on a calendar or just write a list of days, for a proposed trip. Then see how much time you are actually going to spend IN places and how much you are going to lose moving from place to place.

Day 1: Arrive in A
Day 2: in A
Day 3: in A
Day 4: in A
Day 5: move to B
Day 6: in B
etc. etc.

Then calculate the % of time you are going to lose. It can be an eye opener for some people to see they are planning on losing 30-40% of their time moving. Does that sound like best use of time to you?

I personally prefer 'slow travel' with moves no oftener than a full week apart. But if pushed, I will accept a visit for a minimum of 3 full days. Less than that I simply don't consider worth my time doing.

Dogeared

I should have added, that what drives most people to move is the desire to 'make the most of their time'. What they fail to realize is that moving is NOT making the most of your time. Staying in a place is when you make the most of your time. So the less you move, the more you make of your time. Quantity is not quality.

Heimdall

PCtravels, if you still want to go to Greece, recommend Athens and Santorini.

PCtravels

Thanks for you inputs guys. I hope everyone would appreciate the fact that different people have different travel styles. We like to see more within the given number of days as our vacation days are limited. We will be spending 12 nights in all excluding travel time.

For Italy, following is what I am considering

Arrive in Milan and hire a car and head towards Varenna - spend 2 nights - visit lake como and bellagio(if possible)

Drive from Varenna to Cinque Terra - spend 3 nights there

Cinque terra to venice - 2 nights there

I have the following questions -

- Is it really not ideal to drive in Italy? I love stopping by tiny towns on the way and just getting a feel of the place and a few pics too

- Could we just do the drive from Milan to Varenna and then to CT and drop off the car once we reach? we could then take a train from CT to Venice

- I have heard San Gimigigano and Siena are gorgeous towns - are any of them worth a day trip from CT?

- I am little torn apart in choosing between Venice and Florence. Any suggestions on which one is better?

Very keen on just relaxing at the end of the trip - so we may just take a flight to santorini and spend the remaining 4 nights there before we head back.

willit

PCtravels - please don't take this as criticism because I take your point about travel styles, but what do you actually wish to do at these places, just have your photograph taken there?

break down your trip as planned, presuming you are flying in from North America, you arrive in Milan first thing in the morning, and want to drive to Varenna - that is between 1.5 and 2.5 hours drive (depending on which Milan airport) - so even with an early arrival, once you clear the airport and pick up the car you will be lucky to get to Varenna much before late morning, and you are likely to be jet lagged.
The next day you have all day to explore Lake Como.

The next day you have a 3-4 hour drive to CT - so again half a day gone.

Siena and SG are just about doable from CT - but you are looking at 2.5-3h each way drive which leaves you very little time at either destination (and doing both would be almost impossible)

Driving from CT to Venice is probably going to be slightly quicker (by about half an hour) than the train, but the journey is still going to take you around 5 hours.

So in summary, your 2 night stays effectively give you just over a day to see anything, and you will be spending a large part of your travels on Italian Motorways.

Swapping Venice for Florence makes life slightly easier as the Siena/SG day trip is far easier to organise, and your transit from CT is far less It would be impossible for me to choose between the two cities - I like Florence more, but Venice is uniquely wonderful.

In answer to your other questions, Driving is relatively easy in Italy, especially on motorways and major roads - but towns and cities are often "no go" zones for non residents - (ZTLs), parking is often difficult and expensive.

Heimdall

<i>"Very keen on just relaxing at the end of the trip - so we may just take a flight to santorini and spend the remaining 4 nights there before we head back."</i>

Nothing wrong with that if it's what you want to do. You may be able to find a direct flight from Italy to Santorini, but I suspect in early May you will have to connect via Athens. That's why I suggested Athens and Santorini.

What airport will you be flying home from?

isabel

It's not the driving in Italy that is the pain, it's the parking and the fact that you can't go into most town centers (or you risk a really big fine, sometimes months later). I know what you mean about "stopping by tiny towns on the way and just getting a feel of the place and a few pics too" but that is a lot harder to do than you imagine. For one thing, the picturesque, atmospheric parts of Italian (or any European) towns are the historic centers. But most of them are surrounded by ugly 20th century sprawl. So you have to navigate through that. And you can't actually drive very near the centers due to the ZTL zones, and the actual part you probably want to see is likely pedestrianized. This doesn't mean you can't visit and enjoy lots of Italian small towns and villages - I have been to literally a hundred of them. But you need planning and to know where you want to go and what you want to see. Not trying to discourage you here just being realistic.

As wonderful as Venice is I think you will be happier if you decided to do either Venice or Greece. If you skip Venice and did 2 nights each Lake Como and CT and then 4 nights in Tuscany (either Florence and day trips or the other way around) then you'd still have 4 for Greece. I am not a 'slow' traveler at all but even I see the value in at least 3 or 4 nights. Certainly I scatter in some 1 and 2 nighters but not a whole trip of them.

bilboburgler

I have heard San Gimigigano and Siena are gorgeous towns - are any of them worth a day trip from CT? Both are.

- I am little torn apart in choosing between Venice and Florence. Any suggestions on which one is better?

Wow, well very different places, Venice is a water born town which is pleasant between 5am to about 10 am and again from 8pm until midnight. Walking along the water with the sun beating down is inspiring while the water buses just make it a fantastic place.

Florence is the birthplace of the Renaissance, the way I see it is up until 400AD artist could paint, then they could only do cartoons and then around 1500 they could paint again. The place where this change took place was focused on Florence as it recovered from the Black Death. What you get to see is lots of public buildings from that period and the collections of art the money Florence generated allowed.

Both need as much time as your life can offer but a minimum of two nights

thursdaysd

Please do not drive the day you arrive on a night flight. You endanger yourself and others. In any case, you don't need a car in Varenna. In fact it would be a pain. You take a ferry to Bellagio.(Have you read any guidebooks?)

LizDMac2424

At the end of the day, this is your trip (I always repeat that on travel forums cause it's so easy for advice givers to persuade into a different style). If you want a quick pace, whirlwind, go for it!!

As for some of the logistics....I mean, you totally can drive in Italy. It's just complicated to stop in small towns. If you aren't trying to drive through Tuscany area (where the small towns are actually worth visiting), I would totally train it. The train system in Italy is fantastic.

As for Florence or Venice, I think your two options are to a. Pick one or b. Do both and skip Greece. I personally found both Florence and Venice to be amazing and worth every bit of time (plus more if I could add more) we spent. Venice is purely an experience with the waterways. During the day, get lost in Venice (i mean you are on an island!) and away from the crowds. In the evening, you have the city to yourself! Magical. Check out Hotel Galleria (it is right on the canal but small and cheap. Spent so much time in the evening with vino in front of our window watching people pass on the canal) Florence is just so rich in history. I am not a museum or art person but I was just in so much awe in Florence. The art, architecture, colors, THE FOOD (best food and house wine in all of Italy). I also found Florence to be an incredible base. You mentioned San Gim and Siena. I would also offer up Lucca (which is super close to Florence). Biking the city walls was a highlight of our trip. Personally I wouldnt stay in CT. Too crowded and isolated. However, like I said, your trip, your experience. We are just here to offer up experiences that we had to help guide

LizDMac2424

I think the biggest advice I could give you at this point is to read all these posts and step away for a bit. Spend some time thinking about what you want in your trip. Then write it out Day 1/Night 1...etc. Take into consideration how long the train or car ride will take from place to place and what you want to see in each place. (Personally I used Rick Steve's guidebooks but like 90% of the people on this forum hate Rick Steve's guidebooks....I just read his guides and then take them with a grain of salt. They are just helpful to figure out big attractions and things to do in cities).

When I started planning my Italy trip (keeping in mind I had more days than you), I wanted to do Italy and some of Spain. Once I started day by day planning, I realized there was no way Spain would fit and futhermore, I had to compromise on places I wanted to see in Italy! It was super hard to decide to cut Spain, but our Italy vacation was amazing because of it. One day I will get to Spain......though Ireland won out this year!!