ethelsue

I am beginning to plan a fall trip. Last year we spent 19 days in Switzerland and loved it. We really liked using the trains and not renting a car. This year I am considering northern Italy. Could I choose 3 or 4 bases (we probably have about 18 days) and do day trips from those bases. We don't like to pack up and move more than every 3 days (5 is even better). Is this even possible by train and bus, or should I plan on renting a car. We enjoy small towns, seeing the major tourist sites, and lots of hiking. We aren't looking for outstanding restaurants or night life. I am sure the food will be wonderful wherever we are in Italy.

I would like to see Venice (for sure), Verona, Parma, Cinque Terra.

I have also considered spending half of the time in Italy and half in Croatia. Another option is to spend part of the time in Italy, and see the southern part of Switzerland (Zematt and Lugano).

I am in the early planning stages, so am open to any and all suggestions. We prefer direct non stop flights. From Chicago, that means we will have to fly into either Rome or Zurich (hence the idea of combining part of Switzerland).

Thanks for any suggestions.

Andrew

Last fall I started my trip in Milan, then did Parma and Venice (day trip to Verona) before winding my way over to Slovenia and Croatia. I did it all with public transit other than renting a car for three days in Croatia. You can read my trip report here:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...009-photos.cfm

Since you seem to like trains, know that it's not hard to get up to as Venice or the Cinque Terre by train upon arrival in Rome if that's how you want to start your trip (of course, you could actually spend TIME in Rome...). I started in Rome in 2007 and trained same day up to Venice and though it was a fairly long day, it still worked out fine - the Eurostar train up was comfy and fast.

I visited the Cinque Terre in 2007. Wonderful place. You are better off without a car up there in my opinion, and it's easy to get up there and around by train. I have not driven in Italy, but people tend to like to drive in Tuscany and see the beautiful little towns there. But Italy has a fantastic train system - very easy to use and it can get you almost everywhere inexpensively if you want to stick to the larger towns and cities and avoid renting a car.


Eighteen days doesn't give you enough time to head over to Croatia in my opinion if you need to see those other places and spend time there. I'd concentrate on Italy. And it sounds like you'd would start in Rome and leave from there anyway. You would have enough time to stay in Venice, Verona, Parma, somewhere in the Cinque Terre, and maybe one or two other places (Rome? Florence or Siena?).

Venice is a good base to see Verona, Padua, and some other towns - but there is a lot to see and soak in in Venice so you might not do many day trips from there. Parma puts you in striking distance of Bologna and other towns. I'd probably do five nights in Venice and split up your other 13 days how ever makes sense. Maybe 3-4 in Parma, 3 in the Cinque Terre. Florence makes a great base to see other places as well - I'd probably throw that in for several nights as well. (Siena is a smaller and in my opinion more charming town, but Florence is much more conveniently located for the trains and day trips.)

zeppole

How serious are you about hiking and which 18 days in the fall are you talking about? Hiking weather is best earliest on in the fall.

Verona can be done as a day trip Venice, so you could spend your first 5 nights in Venice. You might consider 3 nights in Parma after Venice (with a day trip by train Modena and by bus to Torrechiara castle), then head to le Cinque Terre. 5 nights in le Cinque Terre, and then I suggest you move up to Lago Maggiore by train for your remaining nights, with hikes up in the mountains, a day trip to Lago d'Orta, and maybe a day trip into Milan. You can fly home from Milan.

If you want to combine Lugano and other Swiss destinations, I think it's best you not come so far south as Parma and le Cinque Terre. Consider making it an all lakes trip for Italy plus Venice and Verona -- meaning some time in Lago di Como and some time for Lago Maggiore, and perhaps a day trip to Lago d'Orta. You could day trip to Milan as well or see smaller historic places like Bergamo.

But you would need to be traveling fairly early in fall to get pleasant outdoors weather for higher-elevation hiking. (A lot of Americans talk about fall as starting with Labor Day. Weather-wise in Europe, fall truly begins right around the last week of September, and clocks turn back by the end of October. Mountains and lakes get chilly and wet first.)

zeppole

PS: If you enjoy serious hikes, the hiking in le Cinque Terre probably won't challenge you much for 5 days. However, you can easily move by train, boat and bus to nearby beautiful areas (Portofino promontory, Montemarcello and hikes above Tellaro, Moneglia or Santo Stefano d'Aveto) and do those hikes too.

ethelsue

Zeppole and Andrew,
Thank you so much. This is very helpful. My dates are most likely early September. I must be in Chicago on Sept. 26, so will travel either before or after that date. I think that I would have much better weather if I would leave home around Sept 5 and return Sept 24. However, we could also leave here around Sept 28 and stay as long as we want (or could afford).

I did not mention in my first post that we have visited Rome, Florence, Sienna and some areas to the the south of Rome. If we fly into Rome, we would definitely spend a day or two there at the beginning and end.

zeppole

You are going to have much better weather early in September. Now that I know when you are going, I will also suggest that you think about hiking in the Dolomiti, but only in the first part of September. Some people argue that you need a car, but other posters on Fodor's say they go frequently without one.

But you will have to choose. If you choose the Dolomiti for several days, adding Parma and le Cinque Terre gets tougher if you also want Switzerland or the lakes.

ethelsue

This seems to be possible.
1 Arrive Rome....2 nights.
2 Train to Venice ....5-6 nights with day trips
3 Train to Lake Como area for 3 nights
4 Train to Verona...2 nights
5 Train to Parma..2 nights (side trips)
6 Train to Cinque Terre 3-4 nights
7 Return to Rome and fly home.

I think I would manage to have hiking, scenery, food, museums, etc. From what I have read we could do this all by train or bus. Am I right?

It would be much better for us if we left here Sept 27 and stayed for 3 weeks after that. Will it be possible to enjoy these areas that late in the season?

franco

Absolutely, yes. "Indian summer", in Italian, is "ottobrata", which is derived from ottobre: October.

zeppole

October would be fine, but in terms of sheer enjoyment, I suggest that you you spend more time in Parma with side trips -- including a bus trip to Torrechiara for a hike, google it up -- and less time in le Cinque Terre. In fact, I would suggest that you leave le Cinque Terre as a question mark in your plans and only go if you have a guarantee of nice weather. You won't have any trouble booking last minute.

If it turns out you have rainy weather, the sky is the limit as to where you can to between Parma and Rome and still get in some exercise. I would check out Bologna and Perugia as alterantives.

I will also say the same about Lago di Como. Last year, I made plans to visit Lago di Como around October 20. Unfortunately, the night time temps were dropping to freezing, so I skipped it. If you get to Venice and the weathe forecast for the lake is great, book a room. THere will be plenty. If not, head to Mantova, Padova, or Bologna or Ravenna. Try Brisighella. Again, the possibilities are many, all doable by public transportation.