North or South Wales?
 

My husband and I are spending 5 days in Wales in late June. We have already reconcilled ourselves with not being able to see both the north and south of the country. Please help us decide - we are really torn!

But first, a little about us. We are in our late 30's - early 40's. We like to see castles, gardens, museums, little villages, beautiful scenery. We do like to hike, but because of an non-healing plantar fascitis, we can't go more than about 5 miles of walking/hiking. So shorter trails are better. We don't drive in the UK. Tried it and it was so stressful for my husband that it is just out. So we need trains and/or buses.

We will be flying to Manchester, so N. Wales is a little easier to get to, but we would be willing to go south.

To give you a slightly better idea of our interests, here's what we've considered in each area.

North: Conwy castle, Boanant gardens, short hikes around Betws y Coed, Mt. Snodon, Blaenau Ffestiniog Railway, Llechwedd Slate Caverns, Portmeirion.

South: Cardiff castle, St. John's cathedral, Llandaff Cathedral, Museum of Welsh Life, St. David's Cathedral and Bishop's Palace and some hiking in that area.

We really can't decide, so any ideas would be good! Thanks so much!

Skedaddle, while both North and South Wales is wonderful, to me, North Wales was a bit more scenic and easier to get from site to site. The last time I visited North Wales, I stayed in Llendudno right on the water.

The list of sights you have is very good and just about what you can see comfortably in 5 days.

Which ever way you decide to go, you really can't go wrong in Wales. The people are wonderful and so freindly. Have a wonderful trip!

We toured for 4 days, 3 nights twice with Backroads Touring, based outside of London.

We did south Wales from and Brick House, a B and B near Chepstow.

That enabled us to see Cardiff, Brecon Becons National Park, Cheptsto and its castle, Tintern Abbey, and a few other places tucked away in the hills.

Last summer we drove all over north Wales. Scenic every where we went.

Whether you chose north or south Wales, Lonely Planet and The Rough Guide to Wales give information on train and bus possibilities and are a good resource for early planning.

With Cardiff as a base you could easily do most of what's on your list from the city centre ( via bus) and then take a bus to the Brecons. St. David's is more problematic.

The north also has fairly good bus service to the places you mentioned. Either way you can't go wrong.



I'd also make my bookings asap. Wales does get busy during the summer.

This is what I feared, both north and south are really good! I've got the Rough Guide and between that and Britrail.com, it looks as though there are rail and/or bus connections everywhere. I was a little concerned that we might not be able to get to things in the north without a car, but it looks in the book (and sounds from you guys) as though it won't really be a problem.

The only section I've been having a hard time interpreting is the Sherpa bus in Snowdonia. It appears that Betws-y-Coed might be the best base for connections to see the mountain and to go to Porthmadog. Otherwise, it doesn't seem to have a lot of attractions. Would you say this is accurate?

I guess I'm leaning a little toward the north. We were thinking of taking the train from Betws-y-Coed to Blaenau Ffestiniog, seeing the Slate mine, then going on to Porthmadog. We'd like to do this in one direction, but I can't determine from any of the websites (slate mine, britrail, or great little trains of Wales) if there is a facility to leave luggage in Blaenau Ffestiniog while we look around. We have a bit more than a backback (2 suitcases, usually), so just toting it along isn't an option. Do any of you remember anything about this?

Dallas - where is Llendudno? I can't find it on my map?

Thanks for your prompt replies!

I think Dallas mean Llandudno.

Skedaddle...Have you tried the Ffestiniog website to see if they have information on leaving luggage?

www.festrail.co.uk

There are other narrow-guage and steam railways in Snowdonia. Llanberis, Fairbornerailway,Snowdonia and Talyllyn.

Betws-y-Coed is a good place to stay. Central to Snowdonia sights and with decent bus connections.

Since you'll be arriving in Manchester, and with such a short amount of time, the north of Wales makes better sense.

Aha! Llandudno! I see that one. So many ll's on the map . . .

Yep, tried that website. I'll just e-mail them to see. If not, perhaps there is a hotel that would keep our bags for a few hours.

We like train travel very much, so we will check on the others you mention. I was planning on the Snowdonia Mt. Railway. I'm assuming on most of these tourists are doing a daytrip with return and not using them as actual transportation? Any input on whether it is worth the extra money to sit in an observation car on the Ffestiniog line? From their website, it's a little hard to see any difference.

Thanks for all of your help!

So sorry about the name confusion Skedaddle and Historytraveler. I typed it from memory, and my memory is not what it used to be! Anyway, if you do stay in Llandudno, try to get a room with one of the many nice places on the promenade.

I remember one morning I sat in front of the big bow window drinking coffee and watching a family of dolphins

I would go to North Wales. There are wonderful castles and wlaks (of variuous lengths) and it's easy to get to. Also, if you have time, Chester, just in England (2 miles from Wales) is a beautiful town and well worth a visit.

Carolena

SOUTH WALES!!!!

Ok, so I'm biased seeing as I live there but South Wasles is soo beautiful in the summer...We are having fab weather at the mo too!!
I'm from Swansea and here we have the Gower coast...miles and miles of stunning coasline and beaches...the bus will take you all day for about £6.
Cardiff is near of coure...so is Pembrey, Cardigan, Pembroke...(castle there that Henry Tudor 7th was born - very historic) Tenby is a great little town too.
South Wales...Every time! :)

I am afraid I can't help you decide which area to go, as both are very interesting to me.

In the north, besides Bodnant Gardens, the garden in Penrhyn Castle(near Bangor) is quite lovely also. It would be a pity to miss Caernarfon Castle too.

In the south, I have enjoyed the walking along Pembrokeshire Coast much more than in the north, with some of the most drastic coastal sceneries and lovely little villages. It is quite easy to get around with Puffin shuttle buses.

In both area, public transport( especially bus)is quite good, have you looking into the Wales Flexipass? It is quite convenient for travelling around, for details, please check:www.walesflexipass.co.uk

Thanks for everyone's help! We are getting things pinned down now. We finally decided on north Wales (sorry Lea_Lea - the south sounds lovely, too).

My major need is a place to stay for one night in Conwy. Does anyone have any recommendations? We are looking for something central and reasonably priced (less than $150).

The rest of the trip looks like this:
Day 1 Arrive Manchester Holyhead (I know it's far, but my husband really, really wants to try to see puffins.)
Days 2 and 3 Porthmadog
Day 4 Blaenau Ffestiniog - there is no left luggage facility there, in case anyone is wondering
Day 5 Conwy
Day 6 Manchester
Day 7 Depart

One other thing - we are planning to stop by Holywell near Flint on the way back to Manchester. It happens to be the day of the annual pilgrimage to St. Winefried's Well. Has anyone been there?

Thanks for all the great advice!

For Conwy try the Castle Bank Hotel www.castle-bank.co.uk or Swan Cottage www.swancottage.btinternet.co.uk and Bulkeley Mill www.bulkeley-mill.co.uk

You may have to book something on the outskirts of town as there isn't a lot available town centre. I believe there are a number of places on the local bus routes.

Thanks historytraveler; I've emailed the Swan and the Castlebank, but not heard back from them yet.

Here are a couple more suggestions, just in case.

Town House
SychnantPass
www.sychnant-pass-house.co.uk

Glan Heulog Guest House www.walesbandb.co.uk

Gwynfryn B&B (Conwy)

Glyn Uchaf

Groes Inn

The Castle Hotel in Conwy is supposedly very good but don't know if it's in your price range.Check it out anyway. www.castlewales.co.uk

Good Luck

Thanks! Luckily I heard back from the Swan Cottage this morning and I have a reservation now. The Castle Hotel also had one, but as you say, it's pretty expensive!

Our trip is getting closer and I'm really excited to see Wales! Thanks for all your help!

Skedaddle, did you go and come back? I'm starting to seriously plan our June Wales trip, and would love to see a trip report!

Re Ffestiniog Observation Car.

The Obs is First Class.

If you can guarantee getting a seat in it (ask when booking) it is worth the money for the better views (especially from Porthmadog to Blaenau - coming down the loco will block the view from the end of the coach).

Otherwise First will not give much better views only more space/comfort (and possibly less people).

Sit on the right of the train going up/left coming down (apart from the first/last stretch near Porthmadog when the view is on the opposite side).

Michael

Seasweetie,

I have posted a Wales trip report here (From Poetry to Nature)

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34824413

Moreover, I did a day trip to North Wales when I was in Chester during the same holiday, and you can find that in my report for England (Toast, Beans and Tomatoes) here

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34851175

Seasweetie,

Yes, we've gone and returned. I'll be happy to post a trip report, but it will take me a few days. I've also been to Ecuador this summer and things at work have been really backed up because I spent 3 weeks there.

So, very soon. I promise!

Skedaddle,
I hope you have a wonderful trip to Wales. I fell in love with the country on a trip a few years ago. Among the highlights on that trip- a Welsh Mens Choir concert and a narrow boat collision. Memories that will last a lifetime! Try to find a concert or at least a rehearsal- the music((8)) is incredible!
L

I take day trips out from Liverpool to North Wales. My families favourite places that I can reccomend to you are
Chester - Roman history, shops within a small area & plenty of restaurants to choose from,
A55 takes you up to Llandudno - sea air, small town of interesting shops & the Great Orme.
Anglesey - Red Wharf Bay -the beach is lovely & Beaumaris for the evening/night.
Holyhead is too busy with the Irish boats & I don't go there for a day trip.
Back down the A5 you get to BetwsyCoed which is a day out for the 5/6 shops, river & miniature train track - watch out for the twins who run the railcar restaurant. Bodnant Gardens is just up the road.
Continue down the A5 to Llangollen which is now very touristy - steam train & station, canal trips, compact shopping area that includes a second hand book shop with 1,000's of books & some other quirky shops and a riverside walk - you are not allowed to feed the ducks anymore, so the signs say. The Dr Who exhibition has closed now & is in Blackpool.
Caernarfon, Pwllheli and Barmouth are other places that might be considered but I haven't been there for a few years now.
The above towns listed are my favourite days out so if you intend visiting N Wales you wouldn't go far wrong with them.
Holywell is a big carpark around a chapel so I wouldn't expect you to spend too much time there.
A lot of the time if I am late leaving for the day out I will always find somewhere nice to stop on the way. Maps are available everywhere - I get a UK road atlas for the previous year for a £1 (-Chester) & that does me fine.

Well guys, I totally forgot to post a trip report! So, here is a brief one to fulfill my promise. . . I'll post in installments to make it a bit more readable.

We arrived in Manchester and took the next train out for Hollyhead. We figured since we were already groggy, we'd just get all of our longer-distance travel finished that day. Upon arrival, it was windy and rainy, so we took a cab to our guesthouse. After we had settled in, the operator offered to give us a lift to South Stack. Our main reason for going to Hollyhead was to try to catch a glimpse of the puffins. Needless to say, they were all sheltering from the wind and rain! We did see many gulls and gullimots though. Remember that British birders are very serious - in the lookout station, I asked if some birds that were winging by were "just gulls." I was informed that there really aren't "just gulls" and subjected to quite a discussion of the various types available. :) Seriously, the volunteer who was stationed there was very helpful even for "tourist-level birders" like us. They have telescopes and binoculars available for viewing the birds on the nearby cliffs. The lighthouse is situated spectacularly on an island that is just off the shore. We couldn't walk down to it and across the suspension bridge, however, because of the wind. We tramped around a little more to see the foundations of prehistoric dwellings, but we couldn't get too excited about them.

The walk back to the guesthouse was a scenic two miles along dry stone walls punctuated with styles (I've always wondered about them since I learned the nursery rhyme about the crooked man who walked a crooked mile.) and some livestock. We passed through a park in town that had a group of small standing stones on the way back. After we attempted to dry out and took a small nap, we walked into the town proper and checked out the church. We had only planned one night here and that really was fine. If the weather had been better, it would have been a nice place for walking and I would've enjoyed at least two nights.

The following day, we took the train to Bangor, then the bus to Porthmadog. The bus ride was very long and slow, but we did have the opportunity to hear spoken Welsh because most of the passengers were chatting with each other. After dropping our bags at the hotel in Porthmadog, we walked to Portmeirion. It was about a three-mile walk, but we crossed over The Cob with beautiful views over the water on either side. The final approach to the village of Portmeirion is along the hedgerow and through a wooded area that is quite nice.

Now, Portmeirion is an unusual place. It is a collection of real relocated and fake buildings assembled to resemble a Mediterranean village; however, it is in north Wales. It's quite interesting to explore, but I could never shake the feeling that it was a pretty "Disney-fied" place. It was also the setting for the British TV show, The Prisoner. Lots of people who visit are huge fans of the show and there is a gift shop with much memorabilia for sale. If you've never seen the show, I'd recommend viewing a few episodes before you go (often, they can be borrowed from your local library), so that you know why people are walking around muttering, "I am not a number." Because the weather was much better here, we had a nice walk along the beach and through the Woodland Garden. The gardens are very nice in a wild, untamed sort of way.

On our second day in Porthmadog, we thought we’d see a bit of Snowdonia. We hooked up with the Sherpa bus and made our way to the Snowdon Mountain Railway. Once there we were informed that it wouldn’t be going all the way to the summit because of construction and fog. Nonetheless, we enjoyed the cog railway trip up and back, even with hordes of schoolchildren on a field trip.

We Sherpa’ed on over to Caernarfon Castle where we clambered all over the walls. There was a display on the installation of Prince Charles as Prince of Wales and you can see the slate dais where it took place. We changed Sherpa buses in a beautiful little town called Beddgelert. It was an unexpected treasure. There is a burbling little stream with stone bridges arching over it and a nice walk along it. Additionally, it was named the “Tidiest Town in Wales.” All-in-all a very charming place.

The following day, we took the steam-powered Ffestiniog Railway to Blaenau Ffestiniog. For those who have followed my pre-trip inquiries, we were able to stow the luggage in the caboose and ride in the open-air car with benches. It was quite a scenic trip, we passed waterfalls and pretty little stations and had a stop to take on more water.

The town of Blaenau Ffestiniog is dominated by gigantic slate slag heaps from the mines in the vicinity. Most of the buildings in town are made of the local slate; it’s quite handsome, if somber. Our guesthouse was next to the local rugby pitch where 5-6 sheep were cropping the grass. We walked along the road up to the Llechwedd Slate Caverns. This isn’t recommended! The shoulder is very narrow with drop offs on both sides and the road is curvy. The deep mine tour was interesting. We put on hard hats and boarded a yellow tram-thing for the descent. The tour was a little perfunctory and somewhat corny, but it gave you an appreciation for the conditions to which the miners were subjected. To some extent, coal miners in the U.S. still have similar safety and quality of life concerns. Topside, there is a little restored Victorian mining village. The candy store is charming with many varieties of old-fashioned candies that can be bought for modern prices.

The following day, we made our way to Conwy via Llandudno Junction. We waited for almost an hour for the bus to ride about a mile into Conwy. Unfortunately, we didn’t realize that it was so close or we could have walked! We did inquire about a taxi at the station, but were told that it would be about 45 minute’s wait. The castle ruins are very nice to visit as are the town walls. We also saw Aberconwy House, the oldest house in the city. My favorite, however, was Plws Mawr, an Elizabethan townhouse. We had an audio tour and were allowed to wander everywhere in the house while listening. The rooms weren’t cordoned off and we could sit along benches in several of the rooms.

The following day, we had another ramble over the city walls in a light mist. It was really lovely. We took the train and then a bus to get to Holywell for the annual pilgrimage to St. Winefride’s Well. When we got off the bus, we asked in a gas station where the church was. No one was really sure. Now, this is a well-known pilgrimage site in a tiny town; you would think everyone would know where it is! We first went to the church, then back up a hill and around the block to the parish house, all while schlepping our luggage! Finally, the nice ladies selling sandwiches and baked goods said we could leave our bags there during the pilgrimage.

The pilgrimage was clearly a local affair, but was quite charming. The group started at the church, then walked up the hill, around the block and down to the well (it was much easier not dragging our bags!). The Bishop of Wexham presided over the mass, then we lined up to visit the interior of the well and venerate the relic of St. Winefride. I think the relic is a finger bone, but it was encased in glass and a little hard to get a look. The well itself has been channeled into an exterior swimming pool-like area with changing tents (no bathing on the feast day) and an interior area where the cold water bubbles up. It was certainly an interesting side trip.

We went on to Manchester to catch our flight the next day. England was playing in the world cup that day, so there were lots of supporters wearing team gear and flying flags from their cars. We caught some of the game in a pub near our hotel. We ate a great dinner in Chinatown that night.

So, that’s the trip report. I hope it helps someone else planning a trip to this area! We really enjoyed the low-key charms of Wales.

What a lovely report (though a little late ;) :) )

You made it to some terrific places, and all w/o driving. I agree w/ you about Beddgelert - a lovely small place . . .

Thank you for posting a trip report! We're planning to cover some of the same territory in May, so I appreciate reading more about north Wales.

Lee Ann

Thanks for your kind comments, janisj and ElendilPickle! I do think the whole thing would have been easier by car, but my husband gets so stressed out driving on the left and on really small roads (notice, however, that I'm not volunteering to drive either!). :) We had no problems on the trains, of course. The buses were ok, too, but I do have a word of caution about them. Because we were going to be moving around so much, we just packed carry-on-size bags and a day pack. These were fairly easily accommodated on the buses. There's a little platform area for them next to the driver. However, if we had brought larger cases, I'm not sure where we could have put them on these buses.

Incidentally, my husband liked this carry-on form of travel so much that we are leaving today for a week in Germany with only carry-ons!

&quot;<i>we are leaving today for a week in Germany with only carry-ons!</i>&quot;

Ain't it great!

We spent two weeks in Wales two years ago and absolutely loved it. I think Wales is underrated.

Thank you for your report!