@ john183 &
@ apersuader65:
My understanding is that although sleeping on a plane can help reduce the subjective feelings of jet lag, it doesn’t address microsleeps, and it is microsleeps that are the apparent cause of the substantially increased risk of accidents when driving after crossing multiple time zones. Although the mechanisms aren’t well understood, these microsleeps – which many people don’t even notice – are the result of a discrepancy between one’s established internal biological clock and the natural external clock. AFAIK, there is no evidence that sleep, caffeine, melatonin, exercise, or effort – or almost anything else – can eliminate these microsleeps. It appears that only allowing one’s body some time to adjust to the new external environment can do that. (One can work with artificial light to shift one’s schedule in advance, but most people don’t know how to do that properly or without introducing problems before their trips.) So sleeping on a plane might help people feel better, but it does not make it safe for them to drive. Waiting at least a day or so before driving does substantially reduce the risks.


@ sugarmaple: I only stayed at the Hotel des Rochers one night, but thought the location excellent for walking the Côte de Granit Rose, exploring the northern coast of Brittany, and exploring (by car) the treasures of that part of Brittany, including any number of impressive calvery closes. And the dinner I had there was exceptionally tasty! :)

There is an eco=musée on the outskirts of Rennes which is a farm as it was, with animals, and its public park is worth an hour of relaxation:

This is an important discussion, and this isn't the first time I have seen posters make definite claims about the dangers of driving after flying. But so many do it (or the rental counter at the airport wouldn't have lines), and that sometimes has included me, and I certainly don't want to be a danger to myself, my family or others. For that reason, I have been searching for some hard science on the subject, rather than matter-of-the-fact statements as above, qualified in places by 'my understanding" and "AFAIK (as far as I know)".

I follow suggestions to reduce the impacts of jet lag, a good night's sleep the night before the flight, no alcohol on the flight, lots of water to keep hydrated, some exercise on the flight, etc. On some message boards, those with differing viewpoints talk about an adrenaline rush (the excitement of being in a new or exotic location) that more than compensates for any drowsiness they might normally feel, and that their reaction times can seem normal. This is the first thread I have read that associates "micro sleeps" with driving after an international flight. Of course, microsleeps can be caused by drowsiness. I do a fair amount of driving; sometimes get drowsy, and if my head bobs, or I start to yawn or my eyelids droop, I have no problem pulling over or making the car colder; but the funny thing is I feel less of that when in Europe, even upon arrival. I assume that jet lag may impact different people in diverse ways.

Again this is a significant subject for many of us, and I would prefer to get my information from someone offering a clear and reputable scientific study. Can anyone help?

There is a growing body of reputable scientific research that spans multiple domains of serious academic inquiry, including human factors research, the biological bases of behavior, individual differences, attention, reaction times, shift work, traffic and aeronautical safety, sleep, circadian rhythms, even the risks to medical residents who work extended shifts. If you are accustomed to consuming scientific research, I’m sure you can access relevant literature at a research university library. It not, then as a starting point, you might take a look at the following articles:

· Fatigue Risk Management Systems: Manual for Regulators, published by the International Civial Aviation Organization.
· Jet-Lag and its Effects on Humans, published by the Institute of Aerospace Medicine.
· And, for a good summary of people’s generally very poor ability to recognize their level of alertness or drowsiness and driving risks, Driving Asleep in Psyhology Today.

(Sorry, I wasn’t able to figure out how to link these articles in to this thread. :()

@ sugarmaple: I'm sorry to have indulged in a digression from your planning thread and hope you continue to get the information you seek!

I did a fair bit of googling "research" to see what the airline industry feels about "jet lag". The most significant issue I picked up was that most aircraft operate with an internal pressure less than sea level so people actually feel like they are sitting around on the top of a mountain. This leads to a form of altitude sickness which can take 2 or 3 days to get over. Having sleep will have no effect on this.

There are just a few aircraft that maintain an internal pressure of sea level.

Fougeres might be a better base than Rennes, but 6 of one half a dozen of the other. If you use google maps on getting around ad 40% to the times. I like Quimper as a mix of inland and on the water, Mrs Bilbo prefers Quiberon but she spent a lot of her childhood there.

Quimper is just beautiful - although caveat again, I haven't been for 30 years. It depends whether you are picking your bases strategically (best central point to a number of day trips) or as a destination / beauty spot in itself. We were pragmatic on our last trip but I feel like we missed out on a lot because our bases weren't so pretty. They did however have awesome food and reasonable accommodation. It's sort of a trade off.

Lavandula

The links you provided don’t seem to confirm your pronouncements on driving following international flights. Two of them discuss fatigue (not just from jet lag) for working flight crews, and the third one discusses “microsleeps”. From that last report: “If you feel your eyes closing, or you can’t see quite as well into the distance, it may be a very good idea to get off the road and take a nap.” It adds that small doses of caffeine and even green tea might mitigate the effects, but it is not on point.

Nothing earth shattering that I see there. For us, after driving a million or so miles in our lifetime, we recognize that drowsiness and driving are not a good combination. Some might argue that the adrenaline rush of new travel, combined with the potentially sharper eye for unfamiliar roads, traffic patterns and signage, might actually make one a safer driver than one going through the motions in familiar surroundings. Until we see some science, we will continue to use our own good judgment. YMMV.

No problem, kja! This is how conversations go IRL. But thanks :)

We weren't planning on using Rennes as a base for anywhere else, just to drop the car off and then have a day or so to visit the city. We could just as easily drive in, drop the car, train to Paris without spending any time there. Or drop the car somewhere else. That's fine too if it looks like our time may be better spent elsewhere.

Fougere has come up a couple of times in my research, as well as Vitre, (sp) so it might be worthwhile considering either of those locations for a couple of nights and not bothering with Renne?

Fougères is absolutely lovely - largest fortified castle in Europe, I think, and a great market. Vitré is darling and worth a stop for a couple of hours. Rennes is one of my favorite cities in France, but I don't expect many to share my opinion. Or even expect that many have visited it.

Don't be put off - Rennes is OK and perfectly fine for a short visit. But Fougères is a must-see in that region, so maybe you can drive to Rennes via Fougères as we did. I didn't feel I had to stay there, seeing the town and the fortress was enough for us. I don't know Vitré so can't comment there.

If it's any good to you - we stayed in Aparthotel Adagio in Rennes. They have their own garage, which you should book in advance, and a self-service laundry. Rooms have a kitchenette. We did not self-cater much and it's just a short walk to the town centre where there are plenty of cafés and restaurants. It is on the outskirts of the centre but it is hard to access the centre by car anyway.

I collect teapots (well, my 'collecting' capacity is just about full as I have no space left) and bought a beautiful Guy Degrenne teapot from Galeries Lafayette in Rennes (my only souvenir from this trip). :o)

Lavandula

Revised Normandy and Brittany itinerary, comments and advice please!
 

Ttt

On the way down the coast, near Dieppe, you might want to see the gardens of Vastérivale (sp?) and the Bois des Moustiers mansion; first pictures in this set:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjrihxua

I did write a trip report a long time ago that included Amiens and Arras, and which can be found by clicking on my name and searching through my list of trip reports.

Looks like a great trip to me -- enjoy!

In Bayeux we very much enjoyed our 4 night stay at the Hotel Churchill.
Le Churchill Hotel Bayeux | Hotel Bayeux 3 stars France

On one day we took advantage of the hotel shuttle to Mont Saint Michel.

This town is a good base. Lots to do around there.

thanks, Bette, will have a look.

Ste-Mere-Eglise not far from Bayeux is famous for its parish church being involved in the Allied Invasion as a group of Yankee paratroopers landed in and around the city - one got snagged on a church steeple and was left dangling - a commemorative stained glass window depicts the GI dangling from the tower: https://www.google.com/search?q=mere...w=1097&bih=535