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No smoking in Paris restaurants - is it working?

No smoking in Paris restaurants - is it working?

Old Jan 26th, 2008, 01:11 PM
  #101  
 
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For me, digging up cherrybomb's remark on her MS from some other thread of this forum, and using that info here, is more disgusting than any amount of 2nd hand smoke in a Paris cafe, even for a concerned mother and former nurse.

I think a minimum level of decency can be expected, even from the most fierce protagonists of smoking bans.
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 01:31 PM
  #102  
 
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Sorry, I can't help it...

"in both the U.S and Europe, people with more money and education tend to smoke less and the poorest smoke the most."

Austria must be made up of complete idiots due to the lack of education plus they must all be poor.

"We accept that we don't have the right to drink and drive because it has the potential to harm others,
"
How does everyone in bars, clubs, restaurants, etc. get home? I can't imagine not one personthat would go to any of these places had a drink or two... or more.

I can't believe everyone here has nothing better to do (including myself at the moment) than to waste their time arguing this. You may as well start a thread on religion and/or politics. One side is not going to "sway" the other. Never happens.

In closing, why not focus the attention to making the U.S. a better place for you to live, instead of making France, Spain, etc. a better place for you to vacation and visit. Seems like it would be more beneficial.

Paul
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 01:48 PM
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Paul - it's a shame you didn't read my post properly. I don't pretend for a minute that people never drink and drive, what I do argue is, we don't say that they should be allowed to, or insist it's unharmful to others, or designate places where they can, or set up pressure groups to combat anti-drink driving policy.

One set of people doing foolish, unhealthy things doesn't mean we should ignore all public health risks too.

And if posting on this topic is such a waste of time, then why have you!!
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 01:55 PM
  #104  
 
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WTnow, I'm not defending the demonization of obese people, but WOW. Calling someone out because they have MS and smoke is so low and rude, that it boggles the mind. I mean, get off the high horse. Not every disease or ailment can be attributed to one's actions or the actions of others.

I mean, frankly, you come across as more than a little neurotic. Do you honestly believe you will save your child from every ill that might befall them? Not letting them visit their friends houses because they may be exposed to second-hand smoke? Why not just put them in a friggin bubble! It is all a little over the top. Get a life. And let your children live theirs.

Cowboy1968: When was the last time you were in Scandinavia? I can't speak for Sweden or Norway as much, but people in Denmark smoke like it is going out of style. Easily as bad as France.
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 02:07 PM
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Neo, this was what I should have posted , ergo my response

"So a "few days" of tourist smoke in Paris won't harm you (so far as any studies show). But then add in the week of smoke in Rome, another week of smoke in Prague, several weeks of tourist smoke in . . .wherever. Some of us spend up to half the year traveling. Why should Paris be OK for breathing smoke but nowhere else? What a strange sort of logic."

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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 02:21 PM
  #106  
 
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Sorry RM67,

You said "And if posting on this topic is such a waste of time, then why have you!!" If you read my post, I stated that I had nothing better to do at the moment.

Does anyone here really think they are getting the "other side" to see their point? So far, I'd say no.

I just think writing to the appropriate elected officials would be more useful than writing on a Fodors TRAVEL board. This kind of discussion only results in anger and things being said that can't be undone, as noted previously.

Hey, I now have something better to do, bye.

Paul


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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 02:23 PM
  #107  
 
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You missed mine too Paul. I guess you did not read the abstract link that I left with it for more detail saying "among richer countries and people, higher incomes are associated with less smoking".

So it would be the better educated, higher income people in Austria etc who would be doing less smoking.

I think the number of posts here ( 3 from you!), shows that this is an important topic to travelers to Europe from all over the world. Unlike smoker cannonball, I think this thread should stay here.

Cowboy.....pffft that is your smoker talking.

Hello! This is the internet it is ALL public and no different than her asking me about my weight from another post we were in together. People do it constantly.

I did not steal her medical files and out her. LOL! She is very open and casual about that and her love of smoking.

Was is shameful is that some smokers have no remorse or guilt for all the people they have poisoned due to their addiction.

Take responsibility smokers.....just HOURS worth of second hand smoke can poison an innocent bystander.How can any public words be worse than polluting a child's lungs?? Silly.


It was exceedingly relevant to the conversation and I had hoped she might read about all that data which shows a strong link between MS and smoking, I am sure her doctor does not tell her that smoking is good for her. Any good doc would help her quit.

It is ridiculous to lecture about bad food if you are puffing away on death sticks which harm every cell of the body with every puff and leaves one more vulnerable to disease while harming others with each exhale.

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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 02:35 PM
  #108  
 
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I am a former smoker. The last few years I smoked, unless home in my own apartment I smoked outdoors.
I am glad for the sake on nonsmokers that Europe is now adapting "no smoking inside" rules.
I only hope that in the US and in Europe they will get just as strict with cell phone usage rules, especially in restaurants and public places. Talk about addictions!
I was coming home from work recently by bus, sitting next to someone using her cell phone, at the same time across from a young man talking and laughing on his cell and in front of me was a third cell phone user. All were loud; all were invading another's space; none of their conversations sounded like emergencies. I was trying to read the paper but couldn't concentrate with all the incessent babble, so started to read the paper out loud. Many people on the bus got the point and started laughing. The cell phone users did not get the point, or even care. They gabbed on ... and on ... and on. I really do not know how the bus drivers stand it, day in and day out.
I have also heard that incessent cell phone usage can cause brain tumors. So there's a down side to any addicton, isn't there?
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 02:37 PM
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<Not letting them visit their friends houses because they may be exposed to second-hand smoke?

Wow! I am shocked at how uninformed you are!

Obviously you are not well read on the grave dangers of second hand smoke ( which are increased with children are much more vulnerable to permanent damage.

. Read a few of my links which show that even an hours exposure can poison!

**The current Surgeon Generals Report states that there is NO RISK-FREE level of secondhand smoke exposure. Even BREIF exposures can be harmful to children.**


Here is one just about kids if you really want to know what you are talking about;
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=39857

Read the studies please ...there are a TON that show a link between MS and smoking.
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 02:48 PM
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To cmt who asked about smoking in Greece: I was there in June 2007. I've traveled to 18 other European countries and have always been taken a back by the amount of smoking, but nowhere else in Europe even comes close to the amount of smoking we encountered than in Greece. I loved the country, but if I'm being honest the smoking really did affect the quality of our trip in a serious way. Even eating outdoors we simply could not escape it. We were constantly strategizing to minimze the smoke factor--where to sit, when to eat to have fewer fellow diners (ie potential smokers), etc. And the thing is that we found that not only do the vast majority of Greeks smoke, but they are also chain smokers. People were lighting up one after another with very few breaks. It got old. If I were to have written a trip report on our trip it would have been entitled "If you smoke, you'll love Greece."
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 02:54 PM
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"Wow! I am shocked at how uninformed you are!"

It isn't being uninformed, it is having a grasp of just what these risks entail and one's inability to protect one's child from every risk. I mean, are you going to prevent them from going to college, so that they aren't exposed to alcohol or cigarettes or caffeine? Do you ban them from eating fried foods? Perhaps you will institute a dating ban, lest they have unsafe sex? Do they not cross the street? Or ride in cars? Or use a cell phone, lest they develop brain cancer? What is left? Let them take a risk every now and then, for their sake. I know it makes you feel better, but it doesn't help them at all. Stop being selfish and let them live their lives like a normal human being who isn't clinically paranoid about every health scare out there.

As for MS and smoking, even if they could prove a causal link, this does not excuse your personal attacks on someone, effectively blaming them for having the misfortune of suffering from MS. I mean, how do you not grasp how ghastly such behavior is? Are you such an arrogant anti-smoking zealot that you would stoop so low? It isn't just that I think you should be embarrassed, it is that I am embarrassed for you.
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 03:23 PM
  #112  
 
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Well my child was only 5 when we started and just turned 7, so i do not have to worry about dating or college yet.

http://www.smoke-free.ca/Second-Hand...ealth_kids.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/28/he...=1&oref=slogin

I CAN keep her away from something that will kill her and cause life long harm or death that is EASILY preventable, That is why your first silly question gave you away. Only an uninformed parent would allow a young child to play in a smoke filled home.

Anyone who supports smoking is just uninformed...it is deadly....read and take better care for your children. The overwhelming evidence is in, there is NO debate.

I do not have a brood of kids, we have one and we retired early, so that we have lots of time to take really good care of her and explore the world together. Our goal is doing one really well while we enjoy our time together.

I am a nurse and 55, the eldest daughter of a big family, so I do not think I need lessons on parenting, lol!

We are free spirits...might be a new concept for you.

I did no personal attacks, so I won't dignify the rest of your nonsense. Your bias is showing, so we can agree to disagree..
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Old Jan 26th, 2008, 06:05 PM
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People smoking on the sidewalks outside the restaurants, especially at night. Butts littering the ground. Less lingering at tables. That's a friend now living in Paris reports.
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Old Jan 27th, 2008, 12:23 AM
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WTnow:

I am embarrassed for myself to even respond to you, but I just returned home after an evening out, and probably shouldn't bother posting, but am, especially after asking to have this thread be closed, but I cannot help myself.

I am not sure what your problem is, but you truly are a vile person, as a nurse and "caregiver," you should know better.

You proceeded to post link after link and obsess about how I caused, and continue to cause, a medical condition that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You called out two people, who said repeatedly they did not smoke, as biased smokers when they called you out.

You took my trip report, something that I wrote that was pleasurable to me to write, that was my experience, and used it against me because you decided that I called you fat.

Frankly, I have no clue what you look like, you have no clue what I look like--I could also be overweight for all you know. I was employing rhetoric. Stating that no one wants to concern themselves with the issue of obesity as an epidemic, one that has similar consequences to smoking. It was rhetoric. Not personal to you--again I don't know you or your personal circumstances with regard to that.

Yes, I have doctors who say I should not smoke. My main caregiver and doctor is more concerned about keeping me stable, which I am, than whether I smoke. I also have another doctor who hounds me, just because he does, does not mean that I will choose to heed his advice. That is what being an adult is about, making choices. I, or anyone else, should not have to answer you, and your choices when they are legal choices.

Unless I read wrong, and I actually read the responses here, both Travelgourmet and Cowboy1968 do not smoke, nor do they care for public smoking, yet you accused them of such as they disagreed with your sudden assault on me because I stated in another thread that I have what is called "MS."

You truly ruined what was to be a pleasant trip report, one that I had enjoyed writing. I don't think I will finish it in the way I intended and will instead answer the questions asked of me about certain restaurants and leave it at that. In that respect I will let you win.

As far as your "concerns" about my health, you lose. I went out tonight in my $750 dress bought on aforementioned holiday this evening to 2 parties, one being a work social, I wore 4 1/2 inch heels and worked it. This isn't a person succumbing to illness. I may someday and I will continue to travel so that I cannot say that I missed out if something bad or unforeseen ever happens.

I never want someone to feel sorry for me--most people don't know there is something wrong. But again, you took something, said as an aside on another completely unrelated thread, blew it up, posted item after item about it, and chastised me for it and shame on you. Frankly, shame on me for sharing something personal about myself on an anonymous forum. I know better in the future and while I hope you actually read this, I now you won't.

I really hope that you, given the opportunity you have of retiring early and traveling with your family, spend the time to enjoy your current life choice, rather than think about the negative parts that make you uncomfortable and the sacrifices you made. That is how I live, and while you seem to think me a fool per my habits, is the way we all should live.


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Old Jan 27th, 2008, 01:22 AM
  #115  
 
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Great stories...No one has told us why they like to smoke. Why is the pleasure of smoking greater than the risk to health?
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Old Jan 27th, 2008, 01:23 AM
  #116  
 
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Mistake: Cowboy1968 may or may not smoke and/or find smoking a non-issue for him, though it is a non-issue in this matter. Just want to be an accurate reader/commenter.
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Old Jan 27th, 2008, 01:26 AM
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It is pleasurable in the same way that chewing gum is pleasurable, or drinking for some or anything else. Really, who cares and are these really "great stories," I find this all disingenuous, sad, and disgusting.

People are not smoking in large cities in France due to the ban is the real answer to the initial question.
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Old Jan 27th, 2008, 02:36 AM
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>>>This is just based on the fact that many more Europeans smoke than Americans. Studies show that Americans are more aware about the harm of smoking.<<<

What studies? Dangers of smoking where made quite clear already 30 years ago. Yes, in Europe.

I would understand WTīs fervour if US would be some kind of smoke-free paradise, but it is not. The newest World Health Organisarionīs statistics I could find were from 2002, and I suppose less people smoke nowadays. But according to those statistics in 2002 24 % of adult Americans smoked. 45 % of Greeks smoked (the smokiest country in Europe), and 12 % of Swedes smoked (the least smoky one). So US is somewhere in the middle.
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Old Jan 27th, 2008, 06:48 AM
  #119  
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Ugh - it's really too bad that the initial question (mine), which was just an appeal for information as to how the new ban on indoor smoking in France is going , has turned into a slugfest between smokers and non-smokers.

Thank-you to mlgb: ("People smoking on the sidewalks outside the restaurants, especially at night. Butts littering the ground. Less lingering at tables. That's a friend now living in Paris reports.") --- who actually answered the question. That was all I hoped to read in response to the post.

I think it is safe to say that most of us have no opinion as to what other people choose to do, whether it be smoking, overeating, playing loud music, etc. - unless it directly impacts our own health, well-being, or sanity.

I don't smoke, hate breathing other peoples' smoke, but I could care less if someone chooses to smoke - just not in my space is all I ask.

Traveling, in my opinion, means stepping away from my own personal comfort zone, and often means I will be exposed to things I wouldn't want to live with on my own turf. The flip side, of course, is that I will be exposed to amazing things I would never get to experience at home.




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Old Jan 27th, 2008, 07:20 AM
  #120  
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scdreamer: Yeah, this does seem to be a forum to vent frustrations all too often!
About the Cape Town airport and smoking - you were not suffering from jet lag or eyesight problems!
There is a marked area in the departures hall (only one I have noticed) and probably elsewhere in the airport building where people can squeeze together under a sort of 'canopy' which sucks the air upwards and hence also the smoke.
Strangest thing though - I saw children standing with their parents while they puffed away!!

I personally think it's a ridiculous contraption - if you are going to sit for 9 to 11 hours on a plane without a fag for heavens sake go and stick a patch on before you leave home - better still, stick 3 patches on!
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