No smoking in Paris restaurants - is it working?
Jan 25th, 2008, 02:47 PM
#61
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For the poster inquiring about smoking in Greece:
We spent 2 weeks in mainland Greece in April and May of 2006. Smoking was permitted in restaurants and there didn't seem to be a requirement for the existence of nonsmoking areas in restaurants. I have asthma and caught a nasty cold in the middle of our trip so my lungs were extra sensitive to the heavy smoke in all the dining establishments. We ended up eating outside in the corner of the outdoor eating area to get away from the smoke even though it was cold and windy several nights. The restaurant owners were very kind and brought out heating lamps to make us more comfortable.
Maybe Greece has since changed its laws as our trip was in 2006 but if not, I wanted you to know what to expect. We loved Greece by the way and hope to return for an even longer trip in 2009. I will just be bringing several inhalers with me!
We spent 2 weeks in mainland Greece in April and May of 2006. Smoking was permitted in restaurants and there didn't seem to be a requirement for the existence of nonsmoking areas in restaurants. I have asthma and caught a nasty cold in the middle of our trip so my lungs were extra sensitive to the heavy smoke in all the dining establishments. We ended up eating outside in the corner of the outdoor eating area to get away from the smoke even though it was cold and windy several nights. The restaurant owners were very kind and brought out heating lamps to make us more comfortable.
Maybe Greece has since changed its laws as our trip was in 2006 but if not, I wanted you to know what to expect. We loved Greece by the way and hope to return for an even longer trip in 2009. I will just be bringing several inhalers with me!
Jan 25th, 2008, 02:47 PM
#62
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Actually i am mostly vegan and eat a diet of mostly whole foods like fresh made beans and brown rice and lots of veggies and fruits. I exercise every day. I have low blood pressure, low cholesterol. I am chubby, ( but have just lost 18lbs) but so are lots of people in Europe who are my age...55.
I also find organic food much easier to find in California than anywhere in Europe.
But again, off to a new topic because no one can say how wonderful smoking is for anyone.
Please show me any evidence that second hand smoke is good for children or adults! I am pro healthy Europe!
I also find organic food much easier to find in California than anywhere in Europe.
But again, off to a new topic because no one can say how wonderful smoking is for anyone.
Please show me any evidence that second hand smoke is good for children or adults! I am pro healthy Europe!
Jan 25th, 2008, 02:49 PM
#63
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>> I thought this was about second hand smoke and how it harms and kills?
<<
No, it was a question as to whether the French ban on smoking was really enforced/followed at this point.
Quoting the OP "I am curious - is the new ban being enforced? I can hardly imagine that all the heavily addicted smokers are minding the new law"
WTnow, you turned it into a long rant on the dangers of second-hand smoke. Isn't that what the lounge is for. Health issues are not travel related. The initial question, while worded in a negative manner, is travel related.
There is a really great thread where the person asked the straightforward question to the effect of: is smoking banned in Switzerland. No more, no less. It was refreshing. Ask a question, get a straight answer. Offer an opinion with a loaded question, get a bunch of ranting.
<<
No, it was a question as to whether the French ban on smoking was really enforced/followed at this point.
Quoting the OP "I am curious - is the new ban being enforced? I can hardly imagine that all the heavily addicted smokers are minding the new law"
WTnow, you turned it into a long rant on the dangers of second-hand smoke. Isn't that what the lounge is for. Health issues are not travel related. The initial question, while worded in a negative manner, is travel related.
There is a really great thread where the person asked the straightforward question to the effect of: is smoking banned in Switzerland. No more, no less. It was refreshing. Ask a question, get a straight answer. Offer an opinion with a loaded question, get a bunch of ranting.
Jan 25th, 2008, 02:57 PM
#64
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Your confusion is what? Provide me with some evidence that tourists are dying from second-hand smoke and I will retract my comment about the obesity epidemic, general laziness and poor diet contribute to more health health problems in the US than the second-hand smoke that tourists face. Remember, the initial question is about being around cigarette smoke while in vacation. The general tendency to gripe about smoking on this forum is by tourists, on holiday, for a few days.
NeoPatrick, I assume you are an educated man. Surely you can see the difference.
Smokers overall know that smoking is not healthy. Fat people, sedentary people and those who consume large quantities of processed food do not necessarily.
NeoPatrick, I assume you are an educated man. Surely you can see the difference.
Smokers overall know that smoking is not healthy. Fat people, sedentary people and those who consume large quantities of processed food do not necessarily.
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:01 PM
#65
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Organic is not a necessary label needed outside of the US as land isn't raped to over-grow soybeans and corn to feed animals that are meant to eat grass. To provide plastics and oils and sugars to add to your processed foods.
WTnow, with your new vegan, healthy lifestyle, I suggest you read up on food production in the US. It might make you rethink "organic" and other labels widely found in precious California.
I am done with this--I need to leave work.
WTnow, with your new vegan, healthy lifestyle, I suggest you read up on food production in the US. It might make you rethink "organic" and other labels widely found in precious California.
I am done with this--I need to leave work.
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:15 PM
#66
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Actually I think it was StCirq that started the negative tone in the very first post and then upped the antie wiht the "ape-shit" and such charged comments.
I only came in because she and others were pretending it is not an "incessant' problem.
i am sure second hand smoke has killed a few tourist ( look at the heart rate statistic) although there may not be specific data to prove it. '
There is proof that says ANY exposure to second hand smoke is harmful and can be very harmful. Many here ( from Europe, the States and elsewhere) have talked about their problems with the incessant smoking in Europe so it is an issue that affects tourists and travel.
Many people were also glad to hear of places that have taken the correct steps.
Statistics show that Europeans are not as aware as Americans are about the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke to others. Most seem to be unaware how damaging it is to children. I regularly see mothers and fathers smoking around their babies totally oblivious in Europe.
I think most people who are overweight are well aware of the dangers. That said, studies show that fit and fat can be much more healthy than skinny and unfit. Just because someone is skinny does not mean they are healthy or fit.
I only came in because she and others were pretending it is not an "incessant' problem.
i am sure second hand smoke has killed a few tourist ( look at the heart rate statistic) although there may not be specific data to prove it. '
There is proof that says ANY exposure to second hand smoke is harmful and can be very harmful. Many here ( from Europe, the States and elsewhere) have talked about their problems with the incessant smoking in Europe so it is an issue that affects tourists and travel.
Many people were also glad to hear of places that have taken the correct steps.
Statistics show that Europeans are not as aware as Americans are about the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke to others. Most seem to be unaware how damaging it is to children. I regularly see mothers and fathers smoking around their babies totally oblivious in Europe.
I think most people who are overweight are well aware of the dangers. That said, studies show that fit and fat can be much more healthy than skinny and unfit. Just because someone is skinny does not mean they are healthy or fit.
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:17 PM
#67
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WTnow
I've been to Big Sur, Lake Tahoe, and Yosemite. In between these places too. June Mountain, Mammoth, and the road across into the Yosemite. I have photos of the mule deer crossing across the river feeding from Yosemite park. I think that this is the Merced river but I can't remember.
In the north I can remember visiting to the Six Rivers Park. I slept in my car in that park the night after Kennedy was killed.
So yes, there are some beautiful places but nothing is happened to change the big cars and the amounts of fuel buring in this big state.
But why don't we mention a few other places in the US, since your post is Pan-European. Cleveland had a river which caught fire. This was the Cayahoga River and it burned down three railroad bridges. The rolling sheet metal companies dumped their used oil direct into the river. The lowest form of life in a polluted river had no more sludge worms left. Been there, bought the tee-shirt. How did young girls breathe the fumes from Republic Steel, Alcoa and Kaiser factories. When I passed my car the windsheild wipers had to keep working to scrub the dirt dropped onto the car.
It's okay to say "Paris, you have to keep trying to get better" but don't finish this statement about it's better in California.
Blackduff
I've been to Big Sur, Lake Tahoe, and Yosemite. In between these places too. June Mountain, Mammoth, and the road across into the Yosemite. I have photos of the mule deer crossing across the river feeding from Yosemite park. I think that this is the Merced river but I can't remember.
In the north I can remember visiting to the Six Rivers Park. I slept in my car in that park the night after Kennedy was killed.
So yes, there are some beautiful places but nothing is happened to change the big cars and the amounts of fuel buring in this big state.
But why don't we mention a few other places in the US, since your post is Pan-European. Cleveland had a river which caught fire. This was the Cayahoga River and it burned down three railroad bridges. The rolling sheet metal companies dumped their used oil direct into the river. The lowest form of life in a polluted river had no more sludge worms left. Been there, bought the tee-shirt. How did young girls breathe the fumes from Republic Steel, Alcoa and Kaiser factories. When I passed my car the windsheild wipers had to keep working to scrub the dirt dropped onto the car.
It's okay to say "Paris, you have to keep trying to get better" but don't finish this statement about it's better in California.
Blackduff
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:18 PM
#68
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Wondered why people get seem to get so heated about smoking-related topics, then just remembered that Ann Landers once said she received the largest number of (and some of the most passionately written) letters when she opened up the topic of which way should the toilet paper hang ("up" or "down").
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:23 PM
#69
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' Every mother should be passionate about this issue. There are no safe levels, so just walking a child on a street in Europe, exposes them to unnecessary risk. We have had more respiratory problems since being in Europe and I have never seen my daughter cough so much ( almost always connected to smoke).
"
If Europe is such a sewer compared to the lovely air in California ( sure Neo , gas guzzlers don't produce harmful fumes ! ) why have you brought your child to live in such vile place.
"
If Europe is such a sewer compared to the lovely air in California ( sure Neo , gas guzzlers don't produce harmful fumes ! ) why have you brought your child to live in such vile place.
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:24 PM
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Hi cherrybomb,
I do think health issues can also be travel issues for some travellers, if not all. I don't want to debate the "degree of evilness" between smog, pesticides/artificial ingredients in food, and pervasive cigarette smoke but I believe all are issues that can be both travel-related and health-related. Ask anyone with severe allergies or asthma (or anyone who has both, like me
).
I do think health issues can also be travel issues for some travellers, if not all. I don't want to debate the "degree of evilness" between smog, pesticides/artificial ingredients in food, and pervasive cigarette smoke but I believe all are issues that can be both travel-related and health-related. Ask anyone with severe allergies or asthma (or anyone who has both, like me
).
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:25 PM
#71
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This really does it.
Now you can be fat and fit according to "studies", die from exposure to 2nd hand smoke during your 2 day visit to Paris (no "studies" this time, but WT is sure, wow), people in "Europe" blow smoke into the faces of their babies (regular customs here, some sort of rite of passage before they may travel to Paris), and so on.
And all this drama is resting on the shoulders of a non-smoking 55yo vegan from a pristine remote area in Northern California, deported with her young child by some ugly fate into the heartland of tobacco abuse, and on a crusade to bring enlightment and wisdom to the stupid Europeans.
I don't know - but this is definetely getting too much for me. Is this now a joke, and WT just pulling our legs?
Now you can be fat and fit according to "studies", die from exposure to 2nd hand smoke during your 2 day visit to Paris (no "studies" this time, but WT is sure, wow), people in "Europe" blow smoke into the faces of their babies (regular customs here, some sort of rite of passage before they may travel to Paris), and so on.
And all this drama is resting on the shoulders of a non-smoking 55yo vegan from a pristine remote area in Northern California, deported with her young child by some ugly fate into the heartland of tobacco abuse, and on a crusade to bring enlightment and wisdom to the stupid Europeans.
I don't know - but this is definetely getting too much for me. Is this now a joke, and WT just pulling our legs?
Jan 25th, 2008, 03:37 PM
#72
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Blackduff et al,
I am not pan Europe at all...I am pro Europe! I only mentioned California because one poster from Europe said he was interested in it and the smoke free parts.
Like others, I am just giving my experience. I find it odd that I am the only one who has seen endless Europeans walking prams with cigarettes or holding babies with a cigarette in the other hand.My child's teacher even smokes in front of and near the kids! I find it astonishing because of all the facts we know about how badly it harms children for life.
No joke cowboy:
http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/20..._and_unfit.php
I am not pan Europe at all...I am pro Europe! I only mentioned California because one poster from Europe said he was interested in it and the smoke free parts.
Like others, I am just giving my experience. I find it odd that I am the only one who has seen endless Europeans walking prams with cigarettes or holding babies with a cigarette in the other hand.My child's teacher even smokes in front of and near the kids! I find it astonishing because of all the facts we know about how badly it harms children for life.
No joke cowboy:
http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/20..._and_unfit.php
Jan 25th, 2008, 04:00 PM
#75
Hi,
The original post was " I am curious - is the new ban being enforced" in Paris. Seems like a yes or no answer would have been enough.
Just a thought here (I know I shouldn't)...
I read ""but can you explain how "What if I complained about how looking at a country of fat people about to get diabetes or be stricken with heart disease because of the crap they ate, ruined my vacation?" relates to being FORCED to breathe second hand smoke..."
Forced by whom?
Did someone make you travel to a "smoking" country?
My personal experience is that I've never been forced to patronize any particular restaurant or cafe.
Fortunately, I'm very tolerant and simply choose to avoid places and people that annoy (and especially the ones that endanger) me.
I wish people were as passionate about changing things that need improvement in OUR country. Living in N.J. and spending 2 weeks a year visiting Europe, I couldn't care less if the French, Germans, etc. are smoking or not.
Paul
The original post was " I am curious - is the new ban being enforced" in Paris. Seems like a yes or no answer would have been enough.
Just a thought here (I know I shouldn't)...
I read ""but can you explain how "What if I complained about how looking at a country of fat people about to get diabetes or be stricken with heart disease because of the crap they ate, ruined my vacation?" relates to being FORCED to breathe second hand smoke..."
Forced by whom?
Did someone make you travel to a "smoking" country?
My personal experience is that I've never been forced to patronize any particular restaurant or cafe.
Fortunately, I'm very tolerant and simply choose to avoid places and people that annoy (and especially the ones that endanger) me.
I wish people were as passionate about changing things that need improvement in OUR country. Living in N.J. and spending 2 weeks a year visiting Europe, I couldn't care less if the French, Germans, etc. are smoking or not.
Paul
Jan 25th, 2008, 04:04 PM
#76
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<I still don't get why you chose to live in such an unpleasant environment that is harming you child .??????
Just because I worry about the harm of smoking on my child and all of us ( and others have said the same thing) does not mean that I hate all of Europe. That is a total nonsensical conclusion.
I see that as a PRO healthy Europe stance. Why would anyone argue for more smoking rather than less? The reason for the ban in Paris and elsewhere is because it is GOOD for Paris and good for Europe. It is not for tourists, it is for Europeans!
I feel especially bad for the children and all the exposure to smoke because I know it harms them. I feel bad for all the cigarette addicted people. The young ones who are setting themselves and their children up for a harder life than they would have without this addiction. The old ones who look so old from years of smoking and the teeth.
Sorry, but Europe is a little behind on this one. Is that so hard to admit? The good news is the process has begun and has been successful so far.
I like Europe, but we are not hear to stay, we are traveling the world. I am sure I will not care for smoking anywhere ( or many of the other vices mentioned here).
That does not stop me seeing the beauty here, the beauty in my country and the beauty in people everywhere.
Jan 25th, 2008, 04:04 PM
#77
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Oh, comeon now, cherrybomb. Talk about ME seeing the difference. Are you honestly saying you can't tell the difference between talking about someone SEEING something that is unhealthy to others, and someone EXPERIENCING something that is harmful to him? Get real. And if you're trying to pull the "prove that second hand smoke is dangerous" well, you're about 30 years too late. I don't need to prove that, it's been proven over and over again.
You honestly expect us to believe that one person SEEING unhealthy people is the same as being forced to inhale deadly smoke? This couldn't be more absurd!
You honestly expect us to believe that one person SEEING unhealthy people is the same as being forced to inhale deadly smoke? This couldn't be more absurd!
Jan 25th, 2008, 04:26 PM
#79
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Its amazing how a simple question can make people go so crazy on a topic! A friend studying in Paris this entire school year said that she has seen a marked decrease in smoking at the local restaurants she goes to. She isn't a smoker, but her French roommates are, and while they grumble, they aren't willing to get kicked out or fined, so they go with it.
Some of her friends have even stopped coughing as much- they were amazed how much easier the walk to the store was with 'clean' air
Some of her friends have even stopped coughing as much- they were amazed how much easier the walk to the store was with 'clean' air
Jan 25th, 2008, 05:19 PM
#80
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"does not mean that I hate all of Europe. That is a total nonsensical conclusion.
:
Hate? Who said anything about hate.
If I were soooooo worried about my child , I would book the first flight home where people got ahead of the rest of the world and eradicated smoke, pollution, fat foods, drugs, guns an other harmful things in life so now they can lecture poor, stupid Europeans.
:
Hate? Who said anything about hate.
If I were soooooo worried about my child , I would book the first flight home where people got ahead of the rest of the world and eradicated smoke, pollution, fat foods, drugs, guns an other harmful things in life so now they can lecture poor, stupid Europeans.
