New to Portugal - Two week Nov/Dec trip
 

We just decided to visit Portugal a few days ago and are leaving in two weeks. We have never been to Portugal but have tried to put together some pIan by reading through this forum, looking at a few old travel books and viewing a few dozen YouTube videos.

Here's what we've come up with:

- Land in Lisbon

- Rent a car and tour the towns around Lisbon: Cascais, Sintra, Ericeira - spending sometime in each and staying in one or more? One night or two?

- Continue northward visiting Obidos, Nazara and other villages in the way to Coimbra - again not sure how much time in each or which to stay in. One night?

- Stop in Aveira or straight to Porto - 3 nights?

- Travel down the Douro Valley visiting four or five towns? 3 nights?

- Head south stopping in Almeida or some of the fortified towns and ruins,Belmonte, Sortelha, Monsanto? One night?

Back to Lisbon. Three nights.

PLEASE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS - is this reasonable? How about the amount of time for each? Is there a special place to stay or eat or see that you would recommend- particularly small out of the way places.

We usually use a guide for the big cities and go solo in the smaller villages. Can anyone recommend one for Lisbon and/or for Porto?

To be fair, I haven't read much about Lisbon yet - Is there an area to stay in that is quiet but charming - yet still near enough to walk to some of the interesting places?
Same question, I guess, about Porto.

From what I've read it doesn't seem like we could go to too many places that wouldn't be wonderful.

Last question - BUT IMPORTANT - if we didn't make hotel reservations - but played it by ear and just looked for a place when we wanted to stay - wherever we were -WOULD WE BE OKAY, would we find a place to stay, or would we possibly have to sleep in the car??? We're not too particular - it could be a little guest house or a nice hotel. Must be clean though!

Many thanks,
blej

Looks sweet - I may suggest doing Sintra and Cascais as day trips from Sintra - no need for car and save on car rental. Obidos could be a few-hour stop - one night stands take so much time relocating. I'd suggest hitting Batalha and its UNESCO World Heritage Site monastery en route to Porto.

Guimares and Braga near Porto are two fine regional towns - try to hit them.

PalenQ - thanks for that. When would you recommend renting the car? In Sintra?

Will definitively look into Batalha and the two near Porto, Guimares and Braga. I would guess the two could be done from Porto?

thanks again
blej

Yeah the two cities are about an hour from Porto - on way to Duroro I should think.

If cars are available in Sintra yes - if not just drive there - may be useful if going to a hotel.

I have only been to Lisbon so far, and that was this past April! We loved it. I recommend at least 4 nights in Lisbon. We were there for 5 nights, and we visited Sintra and Cascais on a bus tour for the day. Since you have more time than us, I suggest spending a night or two in Sintra. We had time to see only one castle/palace (Pena Palace), but there are a lot more to see in Sintra. I wish we had the time to stay overnight in Sintra. We saw very little of Cascais, but we liked what we saw and we thought it would be a nice place to stay for one night. However, I'm not sure what it would be like at this time of year. I think it would be nice to visit at this time of year, but perhaps not stay overnight? You need to research what you would do there.

There is a lot to do in Lisbon. If you like, you can click on my name to read my trip report. I also give names of restaurants we ate at and our opinions. We stayed at the Hotel Real Palacio, which we loved, but it's not right in the city center. It's located near the Marqus de Pombal and Edward VII Park. It's a very nice area, but about a 20 minute walk to downtown along Ave Liberdade.

For guidebooks, I used Rick Steves and Fodors. I also really like the Rough Guides, but I didn't purchase it for Portugal since it was a short trip.

I would do Sintra by train, and spend the night. You can get to all of the sights by the shuttle buses. My favorite sight was the Quinta da Regaleira, least favorite was the Monserrate Palace. Pena Palace is a must for the grounds. Try to do the Sintra NationalPalace walk-through also.

I stayed at Casa da Pendoa, around the corner from the main square/ The room came with a kitchenette, and some goodies including port, small cheese, and fresh bread rolls in the morning. I had the "double room, Mountain View'"which was on street level. I reserved it through Expedia but they have their own website. Staying the night you can get up to some of the more popular sights when they first open, before the crowds are too ridiculous.

In Lisbon, I would follow advice to buy the ticket to Jeronimo's Monastery next door at the Archaeology Museum. The line at the Monastery for ticket purchase was insane as was the famous pastry spot in Belem.

Lisbon seems to be have a nearly year-round cruise ship schedule so there were scads of cruise tours going through the major sights and the Alfama. I followed one of Rick Steve's podcasts for a DIY walking tour.

Karen, thanks for your reply. Just finished teadire your trip report. It is a great read and full of so much of what I was hoping for. I'll have to print it and take it with me. If you return would you stay in the same neighborhood?

Mlgb thanks. The advice seems to be to stay in Sintra and wait to rent a car until we leave the area. And being able to get to the sights early is an additional benefit. We are hoping that our late November/early December trip will be when the crowds thin at least a little.

I like the idea of cheese, bread and port in your room.

We really liked the neighborhood we stayed in, and staying at the Hotel Real Palacio gave us the opportunity to see and wander through an area we otherwise might not have seen. Another plus is that it is quiet at night. We enjoyed walking down Avenue Liberdade to get to the downtown area. So you have to decide if that would suit you, or would you prefer to be located right in the downtown. We perhaps relied on taxis more than we would had we stayed in downtown. But we still also did a lot of walking, which we enjoy doing in new places. However, if we did return to Lisbon, I might want to stay in the downtown neighborhoods, such as Chiado or Baixa to have that experience. Additionally, staying somewhere else would give us a different perspective on Lisbon and afford us a different experience. It wouldn't seem like a repeat vacation. The problem is that the downtown hotels that are very nice are also very expensive; they were out of our budget. The less expensive hotels had mixed reviews. The Hotel Real Palacio is in our budget; our room was spacious with lots of storage space; the lobby is very nice; the staff helpful and courteous; and the breakfast buffet was ample with a lot of variety.

I stayed just down the street from Hotel Real Palacio. It was convenient enough. I wouldn't say it was "quiet" because there was still street noise if you had a room facing the street. But the neighborhood was fine. I stayed at Silk Lisbon and the rooms were small, if nicely furnished. The lack of elevator was made up for by the breakfast [pastry display. I don't know that I'd stay there again, though, because of the lack of elevator.

By the way, Uber works in Lisbon. My last night's hotel used their account to call one for me when there was a Metro strike in the morning that I was leaving! Be prepared in case you also fall prey to one of the many strikes (apparently there was also a taxi one not long ago).

While some things in Lisbon were reasonably priced, I didn't think hotels were a great value. Another reason to spend a night or two in Sintra.

Generally ok. Just want to point out I don't see Evora on the list. Quite a nice historical town. If it were me I might cut a night in Porto and maybe another night in Obidos or Nazare and try to squeeze some time there and combine it with the nearby walled town of Monsaraz. We stopped by Belmonte for lunch - nice but did not wow me.

We didnt seleep at Obidos and regretted it.
We loved Coimbra, Sintra is a fantastic daytrip form Lisbon - by train if you are in high season, we were in low season and found parking with difficulty.
We slept in center of Lisbon (apartment, via booking.com) and excentered (end of a tramline) for Porto (also apartment). Good locations for both actually.
We saw hundreds of manasteries and churches.

Yes Obidos is type of town that can be mobbed during day and nicely thinned out at night - and there is a Parador - state-owned hotel in historic environs that is actually part built into the ancient ramparts.

Does Sintra offer car rentals? If not it's just a 20-30 train ride back to a Lisbon station that probably has them.

Thanks all for the help so far. I'm starting to get a sense of Lisbon and the towns up to Porto.

I'm thinking of picking up the car at the airport and staying in Sintra for one night. The price to rent for the whole trip is very low and I like to drive. We see what we can but would like to be on the road the next afternoon. Probably stay in Obidos and continue on to Coimbra the next day. That leaves Porto with two days, the Douro Valley to enjoy the sights and rest - 3 days, South visiting the smaller villages down to Evora and Monsaraz - 2 night? and Lisbon 3.

I still have THE QUESTION - Do we have to make reservations in places other than Lisbon and Porto? - or can we wing it and just stay in a town we like and look for a place???

blej

I traveled those places one October and never made reservations. I would suggest you do some research as have say a Michelin Red Guide for Portugal with you so you can call or email hotels for the next day - hunting and pecking can take time and you often take first thing just to get it done. And if ever find no place well the Hotel du Car can be cheap.

PalenQ, I was hoping someone would say that. There are so many little villages I like the idea of being free to just go in a general direction, stopping and staying where we would like. We'll definitively bring a list of possibilities in case there's no internet at the moment. We're not picky, we can go upscale or down as needed.

Any thoughts on the Douro Valley?

blej

If you need parking in Sintra you might want to search for a place that provides it. I don't know if it's very common.

When is the low season? Sure wasn't low last month.

mlgb, Thanks - will do.

If staying the night try to get a hotel with parking? Ultimate advantage of a car.

We just took a look at the extended weather forecast, which shows rain in all of Portugal for just about every day we are to be away. We decided to hold our plane tickets, not make any reservations at all and see what happens with the weather. We'll drive, or need be train or fly, wherever the weather is nicer - in Portugal or elsewhere. Barcelona is scheduled for nice weather.

Two weeks of rain would not make for a pleasant vacation.
We'll see. Thanks for all the useful info.
blej

In December there are often giant waves in Nazare if that interests you at all, although you won't know ahead of time when the big waves might be. We have been to that quaint little town twice -- once in summer, and once in December -- and both times the waves were small. I would watch the surf reports and try to make it there when big surf in predicted. You can catch a bus from Nazare, or drive if you have a car. We have done both.

In Lisbon, I had a wonderful time shopping the market and preparing (then consuming) a typical Portuguese meal with Maureen Ferguson who runs grapeolivepig.com She is an American who was a very successful restaurateur, married a guy from Lisbon and now lives there and does tours. Highly recommend her services!

You might ask PQ WHEN he was winging it in Portugal. Lisbon is VERY much more crowded than when I first visited in 2008 (well, first not counting 1970) and I would not wing it there or in Porto. And please don't drive right off an international flight, driving after a major time change turns out to be as dangerous as driving drunk. You really don't need a car until you leave the Lisbon area, and can do Obidos as a day trip as well.

In Lisbon I stay close to the Restauradores metro stop (no noise problem, the double glazing works well). If I could afford it I would stay at the Avenida Palace. Do not miss the chicken at Bom Jardim in Lisbon, but be aware it is a hole in the wall type place.

If you are into wine, obviously visit the port caves across from Porto - I would recommend Taylors - but also the Solar do Vinho do Porto in Lisbon. https://www.ivdp.pt/pagina.asp?idioma=1&codPag=169

You may want to book some rooms that can be cancelled at a minimum. With the cheap flights and cruise ships I am not sure if Portugal and Barcelona are ever not crowded any more. Hopefully rain means fewer people. I would bring an umbrella and plan some rainy day activities rather than winging it.

I would not want to drive in either Lisbon or Barcelona.

Don't get discouraged about the weather. Weather reports can change daily. When we went to Barcelona in October 2010, the weather reports predicted a lot of rain for our dates. When we arrived, we had mostly gorgeous weather, with one drizzly day. Just make sure you are prepared for inclement weather. You could go to museums on rainy days, such as the Gulbenkian, Tile Museum, and Coach Museum in Lisbon.

How to spend seven nights in Lisbon: https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...lisbon-759058/

I have been back at least twice since for several nights each time.

I think 3 or 4 nights in Lisbon is good. If you think the weather will be bad all day, perhaps skip the Alfama and work in a museum instead.

Here is the link to the podcast that I followed for the City Center walking tour. I had the 24 hour day pass for the Carris/Metro (6.3 E one) which includes the Santa Justa Lift and the Ascencors and trams.

Note that most Metro stations are not attended so if flying in to Lisbon you may want to buy your pass at that station, which is attended. Your US credit card (if you are from the US) won't be accepted unless it's chip and pin, but you can pay with cash.

https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-rea...al-audio-tours.

I spent my first night at the Star Inn Aeropuerto. That was a good thing, since I arrived late at night with the leading edge of the "Zombie Hurricane". It's a short downhill walk from the airport, and I liked the hotel other than the long check-in (due to what was likely many other late check-ins with cancelled flights). The breakfast was great and included mini Pastais de Belem which were hot and gooey, and honestly just as good as the famous ones. I had thought to book my last night there and wish I had, but by the time I decided it was fully booked. They also have a shuttle shared with the Tryp across the street, which I took going back uphill the next morning.

My first full day I took the train from the Oriente Station to Sintra (this station is also on the Red Line near the airport).

My final night I stayed opposite the Corte Ingles Mall, since there is a Red Line Metro Stop right outside. I thought I was being clever. but a last-minute Metro strike meant I needed to Uber to the airport. That cost me 15 Euro and only took 20 minutes. My last afternoon and night also had difficult weather (rain and wind). For dinner I went across the street to the top level gourmet food court at Corte Ingles and enjoyed my the prawns with black rice at Tasca Chic (note, skip the bread service, it isn't mandatory). https://www.tascachic.pt/en/

I had hoped to visit the nearby Gulbenkian that afternoon but the ridiculous lines in Belem both for the Monastery and the Pastry shop dashed those hopes.

I would not wing it in Lisbon or Porto but was more talking about driving between them at that time of year. Friends did this three years ago and said no problem - but they did call ahead the day before.

Weather in Lisbon will be coming in from the Atlantic so yes, it can turn bad. I was there from late on October 13th until the 19th and there was definitely some bad weather during that time!

Even a few weeks can make a difference.

On the other hand, I once decamped from London to Lisbon in the hope of better weather and was rewarded.

Be sure to double check more recent trip reports and tripadvisor discussions, as much has changed since 2009 including the bus routes in Sintra and who is entitled to free admissions.
However if you are over 65, the senior discount into public museums and for trains is good for everyone, just show your passport.

As for not being on the radar for Brits and Americans, those days are long over.

Hi all and once again a great deal of info - still sorting it through. One thing that has become obvious is that we have too many places we are trying to see and too many different places on our schedule to spend the night. We also have only 13 nights.

We have the area between Lisbon and Coimbra.- 2
Coimbra - ?
Porto - 2
The Douro Valley - 3
Small historical villages around the Serra Da Estela - (Almeida, Piodao, Sortelha, Monsanto, etc.) - 2
Evora, Monsaraz - 1
Lisbon - 3

The question is leave out Coimbra or Evora or both. If we leave both out we can spend an extra day somewhere and we would have only 5 places to stay in.

Must see areas for us are: Lisbon, Douro Valley (a time to enjoy and rest), Historical small villages (we like old hill towns).

Something will make itself known.
Blej

I would leave out Evora rather than Coimbra. I was a little disppointed in Evora, and Coimbra makes more sense geographically.

I enjoyed Evora but it is an outlier with your other plans and not stupendous enough to merit a detour IMO.

Make sure you visit the Belem area of Lisbon and it’s Jeronimos Monastery. Did Sintra and CaisCais as day trips which we liked but had no desire to stay at either one, giving up city time in Lisbon. We spent 9 nights in Lisbon, lots to do and see.We regretted staying overnight in Obidos, worth about two hours at most. Try to include Evora where we were glad we spent the night, wished we could have stayed one more night.
Guimares is north of Porto in the Minho region not on the Douro. We spent two nights there and recommend it.
We stopped in Nazaré and Aviero for lunches. Enjoyed Coimbra, the library, and stayed in a wonderful hotel, Quinta de las Lagrimas.

We've made a change in our planned sequence of towns - in order to secure a stay in a particular quinta.

Current itinerary

Lisbon2 nights
Obidos:

Sorry about that!

Current itinerary:
Lisbon 2 nights - made reservation at Casa Balthazar
Obidos 2 - with side trips
Coimbra - on the way to Porto
Porto 2
Douro Valley 3 - with side trips on the way- made reservations at Quinta do Peso in Tabuaco (Pinhao)
Piodao - 1

Forecast improving - but who knows. I have the lightest umbrella made and we are water-proofing my shoes.
Evora - 2 stopping in Monsanto on the way
Lisbon- 1

Quinto do Peso puts us in the thick of easy to reach Port houses
Piodao takes us way out of our way, but I have a feeling it will be worth it and a grand adventure.
Would have like to include a night in Monsanto, but my wife would like to visit Evora and two nights sound right. A lot driving to get there.

Weather report has improved - but who knows. I have the lightest umbrella made and we are water-proofing our shoes - just in case.

Blej

Strongly recommend against two nights in Obidos. Very over-touristed and only worth two to three hours even if empty.