yehyehgirldetroit

Hello!

I posted a first draft itinerary on here a few days ago and received a ton of knowledgeable & helpful replies. After more in depth searching of flight schedules and further consideration this is where we are now and I would again love some feedback, as it proved very helpful the first time around.

09/13 Arrive Naples Airport, private driver to Praiano
09/14 thru 09/19 Praiano
09/20 Go to Pompeii, then onto Rome via bus from Naples
09/21 thru 09/23 Rome
09/24 Transfer Rome to Siena
09/25 thru 09/27 Siena (with rental car for visiting other towns)
09/28 Transfer Siena to Florence
09/29 Depart Florence for home

Thoughts?

Originally I was trying to take advantage of our Labor Day as a built-in day off from work. We finally came to our senses realizing that this is hardly an advantage. I really would prefer to start closer to mid-September than end-August for milder weather. Now I'm wondering if a 09/13 start is the best or if we should consider a week or two later? I'd like beach friendly weather while on the AC. As for Rome & Tuscany - the cooler the better. The 09/13 date does put me in Italy on my birthday (09/17) which is nice, but not of great importance.

Thanks everyone.

Jean

I don't know anything about Pompeii/Naples to Rome by bus. Is there an advantage (cost?) to the bus over the trains?

Personally, I'd stay somewhere in Tuscany other than Siena. In recent years, it's become a relatively big town with lots of traffic that you have to navigate through as you leave and return each day. I would pick up the car in Orvieto and stay in the Val d'Orcia (Montepulciano, Pienza, San Quirico, Montalcino, etc.) or in Chianti (Castellina, Radda, etc.) or perhaps San Gimignano. Pick the location that is the most central to where you want to explore in Tuscany.

If you still want to stay in Siena, look at the Palazzo Ravizza which has its own parking lot and is only a couple of turns inside the city walls.

Regarding 9/28 and returning the car. If you drop the car in Siena, you'll have to get there by 11:30a as the agency near the train station closes at 12:30p on Saturdays. If you wanted to keep the car all day and explore along the way to Florence, return the car at the Florence airport and take the bus or a taxi into the city. The offices at the airport are open until 11:30p on Saturdays.

Weather is always a crap shoot, but you should be OK everywhere the last 2 weeks of September, or even a week later.

yehyehgirldetroit

Hi Jean, thanks for your reply. I have not researched the bus vs train extensively myself but I have seen the bus noted by several other travelers, including in a direct reply to another post of mine.

Thanks for your insight on Tuscany, I will look into your suggestions & note the car return tip. I think we would opt to turn the car in by 11:30am (or earlier) & take the first bus to Florence after that. We don't generally make the best driver/navigator team so some open ended cruising between small towns is probably enough for us on this trip. I have been considering an agriturismo that is 2km outside of the Siena Historical Center, do you being that far removed from the city center would save us from having to navigate through heavy traffic?

I actually just had a thought that Tuscany might not be so lush and green come late September/early October & maybe I should consider swapping Tuscany for Venice? We could plan a spring visit to Tuscany down the road.

Thanks again for your advice.

stevewith

Looks much more smooth and relaxing and lot more fun.

Tuscany is very colorful in September-early October. If you keep it in your itinerary, I suggest you pick up the rental car in Orvieto, and I also recommend you pick a cozier town than Siena as a place to sleep. You can drop off the car in Siena, or drive it to Florence.

Or you could go to Venice. Up to you. Be aware that if you were put off by the idea of too many tourists in Siena, you will be up to your eyeballs in them in Venice.

arnthal

I agree with the comment about staying in towns other than Siena. As for the bus to Rome, it would be much faster to take the fast train (Freccia Rossa), which takes just over an hour versus 4 hours or more by bus.

yehyehgirldetroit

Stevewith - thanks for reaffirming Tuscany - done. It has always been of much more interest to me than Venice. Recently I have noticed a lot of people speaking very highly of Venice so I thought to reconsider, but then again a lot of people speak very highly of Positano which I do not especially care for - different strokes I guess.

Ok Jean, stevewtih & arnthal - I am totally open to towns other than Siena. Do any of you have specific favorites as a base? Any particular accommodations? I do prefer "cozier", charming and less touristy atmospheres. Scenic views make me happiest and my fiancé enjoys history. We both love food and wine.

Thank you thank you thank you!

Jean

So, you haven't made a list of the towns you want to explore or areas you want to drive? Tuscany is huge (9000 square miles), and you're only going to see a small part of it in a couple of days.

But if you're totally open to suggestions, we had a great week in the fall in Montepulciano at this very small (4 rooms) hotel which has its own wine bar:

http://www.locandasanfrancesco.it/bo...l-tuscany.html

After Montepulciano, you can return the car in nearby Chiusi and take a train into Florence.

yehyehgirldetroit

Jean, no I haven't made a list of towns that we'd like to visit, we only expect to see a small part of the region. In fact we'd prefer to only dedicate one day to driving nearby towns but someone pointed out that it's likely car rentals will have a 3 day minimum.

Val d'Orcia is of interest, in fact that is what my first vision was. Montepulciano gets a lot of mention, Pienza looks nice. Then I read a LOT of remarks along the lines of Siena being the "quintessential Italian city" along with it being a good base. However I hadn't read that it is has become a rather big & congested city until you pointed it out. I am by no means committed to Siena. Building this itinerary is kind of like making my way through a maze - I research some paths, I take some steps in one direction by posting on here, all of you kind people say "no you're going the wrong way" and then point me in the right direction again, or you say "you could go that way, but this route will get you further", etc.

The B&B you posted looks lovely! However, I put in my dates & there is no availability. Thank you for sharing.

Jean

If your plan was to go to Siena and just see Siena, I wouldn't dissuade you. Siena has a lot to see and a very interesting history. But, if your plan is to drive in and out of the city at least 2 of the 3 days, I don't think it makes a good base. Some people split the difference, stay just outside Siena, go in/out using public transportation and drive to other towns. But depending on your location and where you want to drive, you'll likely encounter some traffic.

If it were my trip, I'd rather spend those 3 days exploring the small, picturesque towns of the Val d'Orcia. Driving around in these dreamy landscapes would definitely feel more honeymoon-ish to me.

ekc

Definitely take the train from Naples to Rome - faster and easier and you need all the extra time you can get in Rome iwth only 3 days there. Are you getting a private driver to Pompeii and then train from Pompeii to Naples?

I LOVED Pienza and would stay there in a heartbeat. Lots of great towns nearby and the views from the edge of town are stunning.

I think the timing of your trip is good - you will have great weather for your time in Praiano. It will likely be hot in Rome, but that is unavoidable.

Seeing your screen-name reminds me of a song from David Rocco's cooking show!

yehyehgirldetroit

Jean –
>>If it were my trip, I'd rather spend those 3 days exploring the small, picturesque towns of the Val d'Orcia. Driving around in these dreamy landscapes would definitely feel more honeymoon-ish to me.

Zee21

I also agree with taking the train between Naples and Rome, it's very convenient.

I only went to the more popular cities so cannot help on that one...

Jean

Scroll down this thread to bobthenavigator's list of favorite lodging in Tuscany. Bob particularly likes San Quirico, but his list includes several locations (although not all are in the Val d'Orcia).

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ce-tuscany.cfm

And you might want to read this thread:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...y-171368-2.cfm

stevewith

What kind of history interests your husband? There is a marvelous Etruscan history in the region of Southern Tuscany. There are the stomping grounds of Hannibal just a stone's throw across the Tuscan-Umbrian border. There is also the commercial powerhouse of Siena, with its own take on the Renaissance. There is also the web of abbeys and other churches showcasing some glorious Florentine frescoes --- and last but not least there is the more modern history of Tuscany which includes WW2 and even more importantly its transformation from an impoverished land of starving sharecroppers to a treasured UNESCO world heritage sight.

I have to say I've "done" the picturesque Tuscany and -- well, it certainly looks like the pictures! It is of course lovely and serence, but I also happen like a little more intellectual content to my travels (I went to Ravenna for my honeymoon), which includes all forms of history and also the history of how the land has shaped the history of Italy, and continues to do so today. Wine-making in the region is of extraordinary historic importance. So is the special type of farming that has developed over time. Very intense.

You can't take in all of the history of southern Tuscany in a few days, but to pull on the thread of history that is of most interest -- Etruscan, medieval commerce or wine or Roman or papal or monastic -- can give unravel and unearth an extra dimension beyond the wander and snap another picture Tuscany, where Tuscany becomes a sort of grand manicured suburban gated community of ones dreams.

Dayle

yeahyeargirl,

I completely agree not to stay in Siena for a Tuscan countryside experience. It's a much bigger town that you think and the freeways around it are confusing. It's the only place I really had a hard time finding the right road.

We stayed in San Sano in Chianti on one trip. A tiny village that you need a detailed map to find. Hotel Residence San Sano was great ****, but that way in 2000. I believe it still gets great reviews but check.

For further south on another trip, I stayed in Montalcino, between Montepulciano and Pienza in size, and home of Brunello. I loved this town! I stayed at Il Giglio, a nice hotel and some rooms have great views. Owners a little remote, but good breakfast in their restaurant. There are other good lodging choices in town.

I was on the Amalfi Coast, Rome and Tuscany and Umbria in mid-Sept to Oct in 2005. Amalfi Coast was hot, humid, and crowded. Rome had night time thunderstorms, but during the day it was perfect temps and blue skies! Tuscany had a cold snap and a freezing wind. Had to buy a wool sweater. Then it warmed back up to normal and perfect.

The fields were plowed under, the grapes were ripe and beautiful. Highly recommend a few grape pictures

Driving around the countryside is a breeze.

Hope this helps!

stevewith

This link to a bicyclist's zip through Tuscan history is useful to have, I think, maybe especially for its reading list:

http://www.experienceplus.com/blog/?p=456

But it is nice to be in Tuscany and have some basic understanding of why it looks the way it does.

Mimar

In the Val d'Orcia, both Pienza and, a little smaller, San Quirico d'Orcia make good bases for daytripping by car. They're on the flat and easy to get in and out of -- unlike the hilltowns of Montepulciano and Montalcino.

Mimar

yehyehyehgirl, here's detailed info about the Circumvesuviana train in Naples Centrale: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-or-pompei.cfm

You will be taking the route in reverse, storing your bags at Pompeii while you tour, then catching the Circumvesuviana to Naples and switching, in the station, to the Trenitalia train to Rome. Unless you decide to take the bus.

stevewith

If you like views, then staying in a flat valley town is not the way to go. The flat towns are popular with retirees and others with limited mobility, but the hilltowns are really not all THAT difficult if you are reasonably fit and one hopes you are not setting your alarm every morning of your honeymoon and racing out to begin "hitting up" hilltowns (before the shopping pauses for lunch). It is nice to walk in the morning through the hilltowns. Nice exercise.

I've nothing against any of the hilltowns or flat towns of the val d'Orcia, which is exceptionally lovely, as is le crete Senese further north (the most beautiful in my book, but others prefer the val d'Orcia or the Chianti). For scenery, you'll be spoiled for choice, and for history, the area is compact so it is not a major project to go anywhere you really want to see (although save Florence for after you've gotten rid of the car).

Mimar

stevewith, I'm all for VISITING the hilltowns. Absolutely. Why else go? However, with a car, it's just easier and quicker to drive in and out of towns on the flat -- so more time for sightseeing.

(Does anybody else think steve is Z?)