sandi

In our far flung travels, I have noticed one particularly rude habit...on cruises, in open air theaters, performances, beaches, etc....when people come early (sometimes getting up before dawn as we noticed on one beach in Mombassa) TO 'STAKE OUT' the chairs, sometimes rows of them, with books, blankets, towels, etc. Then when you approach, they say that seat is 'taken'. I just usually sit down, and if they say it is taken, I reply, "don't see anyone sitting here, do you?" What do other people do about this problem. Like on a cruise, folks stake out their deck chairs, then go away for the day, the beauty shop, the casino, and usually can return and find their seat waiting for them, while others go without. Seems unfair to me and I don't put up with it. While on a cruise one time, a woman "hogged" an entire front row of choice viewing seats as we were passing thru a glacier area, (for her family who were ill, but would be arriving shortly) and not until there was a near riot did she begrudgingly relinquish some of them.

Is That Seat Taken?

I disagree with your premise entirely. <BR> <BR>Think of it as an informal reservation system. If I get to the movie early, and then a few of my party wish to use the facilities or buy snacks, do you really think you should wedge your behind into their seats if you have been told the seats are taken? I'll have an usher throw you right out. <BR> <BR>Sure, there can be abuses at the margin. Someone who saves seats for no-shows, or saves more seats than they really need. But no one gets up at the crack of dawn to save seats for no-shows, so those things are usually due to unfortunate miscommunications. <BR> <BR>Moreover, it is the late-comers who are the problem. At a Disney waterpark, we made the effort to get there at rope drop to get a picnic area with shade. We spread our things out and rode rides, etc. When we returned to the spot, squatters were using our area. No big deal. When we returned, they did the right thing -- finished their lunch, picked up their things, and moved on. <BR> <BR>What a hoot! I can imagine a smackdown brawl where Sandi comes across a spot of beach she wants, waits for the family to frolic in the surf, and tosses their things aside in a heap to claim the spot. <BR> <BR>If you want a good seat, get there early, Sandi. Or sleep in and take your chances.

pam

I totally agree with above poster. <BR>The reason that people arrive early is to make certain they have the seats they want. <BR>If other people want to have wonderful seats for any event- let them plan and prepare as early as the people who are using their own form of reservation system. <BR>I can't tell you how many times parents of my students have come <BR>early to save seats for their whole family. I let them use their own 'system" as it must be very important to them to have taken the time and made the effort to show up so early. <BR>

Surlok

I completely agree with Sandy. Were these seats available to book, it wouldn't be an issue, but they aren't, so, if you got up early, and got your seat, fine, but you can't "stake out", as Sandi says, an entire row for your relatives, friends, who are coming later. Nor you have the right to leave whatever insignificant belonging of yours, or a towel that doesn't belong to you on them, as if the seats were yours for the whole day. This is clearly a very selfish behavior, not civilized at all. <BR> <BR>I've seen this happening with groups of friends, or a families that are traveling together. One of them gets to the place earlier, and saves an entire row of seats for the belated ones. Then, they take their time doing whatever is, whereas someone who is getting to the place a minute after, can't get any seat. Then, the entire horde but one leaves to buy popcorn, or hotdogs, or soda, to go to the toilet ( yes, they have to do it in hords), or sea bathing, and the seats are there, blocked, waiting for them to come back who knows when, while others have to wait until the whole group decides to leave. Is this reasonable? I don't think so.. This is selfishness and impoliteness. <BR> <BR>Surlok

Marlin Perkins

Really, Sandi. The system you propose is wholly unworkable. <BR> <BR>If people couldn't save seats, then everyone would have to plant their butts in their seats and never leave. If they got up to urinate/eat/make a phone call/say hello to someone/swim/get some money/wash their hands or anything at all, someone is perched there ready to pounce. If your family is watching TV, and someone gets up to get a snack, do the others feel they can take that person's seat? Of course not. You are probably more civil and respectful than that. <BR> <BR>It reminds me of a nature special about the animals in the jungle. The lion (that's me) kills a deer. I settle in to eat. But behind me, licking its lips, just waiting for me to wander off for a minute, is a hyena (that's you), hoping to install itself as the owner of the deer carcass. <BR> <BR>Why do you want to spend your life as a hyena, Sandi?

Surlok

Marlin Perk-ins, <BR> <BR>This was a very bad, and badly chosen, comparison. <BR> <BR>What Sandi meant, and I did too, is one single person saving a whole row of seats, and not on the contrary. <BR> <BR>Of course one has to urinate, preferably into a toilet, and not on the chair, so, this is not the point. What I ask is: do they ALL have to go urinating at the same time, and have one of them, that has not the same urge holding on ( poor him, or her) to save their seats??? <BR> <BR>Surlok <BR> <BR>

sandi

As usual, some fodorites take the issue out of context and make a deal out of it. I am referring one person who comes to a function, or who goes up on deck on a ship, and 'reserves' an entire row for all their friends, etc. Of course, if you must vacate your seat for moments, or even a while, having sat in it initially entitles you to leave it, but you can't sit in 20 seats at a time, can you. Most high class cruise companies dissallow this practice now, and remove towels from deck chairs if they are left unattended for two long (sign on the wall says so) and ditto the lounge and theater areas. I think it is preposterously rude to think that you can SAVE an entire row, for folks who may never even show up...just in case, and I don't feel the least bit shy about claiming an unclaimed seat.

Marlin Perkins

Gee Surlock and Sandi, <BR> <BR>How many people in a row of 20 do you think should be able to leave their seats at once? Is there some mathematical formula you would use? Why do you care if they go en masse or one at a time, anyway? You're aware they plan to sit there, and you still don't get to sit there, do you? <BR> <BR>If a large party needs to save seats, then they need to have as many people "babysit" the seats as they feel is appropriate (2? 5? 9? who cares?), and they have to get there early enough to find the requisite space. If they leave a responsible adult there to advise me the seat is taken, that's good enough for me. <BR> <BR>Yes, it is an abuse when someone leaves their towel on the chair for a whole day. But in that case, they didn't leave someone to save the seat. They left an inanimate object that can't say "Sorry, I'm saving this for my husband, who went off to make a call." So I have much less sympathy. When you encounter this situation, you should inquire to nearby persons, "Is this seat being used?" If no one answers, you may remove the towel, fold it, and have the seat. <BR> <BR>But for the usual seat-saving, beach-stakeout done with live "babysitters" who made the supreme effort to beat you to the spot, I disagree with you.

Huh?

Warning: Henceforth, if you are a family at the beach, a few of you must sit on the blanket AT ALL TIMES to reserve your spot. You may not all go buy food or swim at the same time. Failure to heed this warning or leaving an insufficient number of persons on your blanket will constitute abandonment, and Sandi and surlock will summarily evict you.

sitter

The scene: Movie theater at which a first run movie was beeng played. <BR>We arrived early to get "the best seats". Sat next to a single male with 1 empty seat between us. Theater filled except for the front 10rows or so. After the lights had dimmed and previews were showing, a couple came in and the female proceeded to "direct traffic" so they could sit in a "good spot" and asked us to all shift to the left 1 spot and the single to shift to the right 1spot (allowing them to sit in the center) I said No and that we came early to get the seats we wanted and I wished she wouldn't interrupt our movie experience. She shot me a look. went to sit in the front and our entire row applauded!

Sue

Sandi, thank you for starting this thread. I'm glad to read the differing viewpoints of others, because I have found the 'rules' for this situation ambiguous, and I think this is what is most frustrating for me. <BR> <BR>The passion with which we might have feelings on the issue doesn't, alas, do much to produce clarity. I think it really has to be up to the management to clarify the rules of the situation. <BR> <BR>I do note someone's point about arriving 'early' but this is an undefined term, whereas commencement of a particular event (like a movie) usually has a specific, published starting time. Ergo, what defines 'early?' To me, it might be 30 minutes in advance, to others, 5 minutes in advance, to yet others, 5 hours in advance of the official starting time. <BR> <BR>Second problem. The rule often quoted is 'first come, first served.' However, I am confused by a demand to be served when someone has not, in fact, come. As when they are arriving some time after their appointed 'seat reserver.' This is quite different from holding a seat for someone who has arrived, but must make a temporary and necessary absence (say, for visiting the washroom.) <BR> <BR>Third problem. Lack of information. I think most of us would have a different reaction to, say, seats being held for someone physically frail as opposed to someone healthy. In addition, large groups (where 'large' means they will occupy a significant proportion of seats) pose a problem if they wish to sit together, because of the inherent lack of flexibility in such an arrangement. One could argue that one's ticket entitles one to a seat, but not necessarily to one that is contiguous with one's travelling companions. <BR> <BR>In the end, though, I wish management would simply recognize that the problem occurs, and devise a uniform and consistent policy.

Graziella

Hello, I agree with Sandi. <BR> <BR>We , as a society, have often lost our common sense, or even better do not do to others what you wouldn't like done to yourself....remmember? <BR> <BR>It is the same at home, I think that is oK to leave your cart in the super market line for a couple of minutes to pick up ONE item you forgot, but I believe it is very rude to leave your cart and keep on shopping for more than one item.... <BR> <BR>

sorude

Snadi, <BR>How do you know that people (whether in a group or not) are leaving objects in their seats and going away for the day? <BR>Do you actually wait there and make sure that people in fact left for the day, or you just assume that if they are not in their chairs, they have gone away for the day and plant yourself in their seats? <BR> <BR>Some people could have just left to go to the bathroom for a couple of minutes (people need to urinate you know!), or get something from their room, or maybe they went swimming for 20 minutes. <BR> <BR>Poeple should be allowed to urinate or swim in the beach without having to worry about somebody just throwing their belogings away and plant themselves in your seat. <BR> <BR> I think it is extremely rude to just sit down if somebody says that the seats are taken. Are your implying that people should remain in their seats all the time, making sure that the seats are occupied all the time? Maybe they should have a built-in toilet in beach and cruise chairs and theater seats. <BR> <BR>Also forget about swimming if you are at the beach, better guard your chair you never know who is scoping the area waiting for you to go to the bathroom to take it away from you!! <BR> <BR>Now that is what I call extremely rude. <BR>If that ever happen to my companions and I after I came back from the bathroom, I will call the police and accuse that person of stealing my wallet just to cause that person a problem. <BR> <BR>Come on be civilized!

TotheTop

ToTheTop

You Snooze

Let's say you want to buy tickets to a concert sporting event etc. where there are only limited tickets for sale. Can you save a place in line for all of your friends who will be there later and then get in line with you? What about sending someone ahead to save a spot for everybody in your group in the buffet line, so they can "but in" when they get there? <BR>How about one person waiting in line and saving your place for 2 hours at the Uffizi Gallery while the rest of your party goes sightseeing around Florence? <BR>I would say that if you are there first, the seat is yours. But, you shouldn't be able to save a seat for people who will be comming after you. First there, first served. You only not those to come later.

xxxx

Sandi is taking about just sitting down in someone else's seat just because the person is not physically present. <BR>If somebody left to get a drink of water for five minutes and left his/her family member to say to anybody approching this seat is taken, what is wrong with that? <BR> <BR>Sandi will snatch anybody's seat if she does not see the person physically sitting in the seat. To her an empty seat with a towel and couple of personal belonging means that the person has gone for the day. <BR>That is what she is implying! <BR>You cannot leave your chair ever, or there will be Sandi taking it away from you. <BR> <BR>She will be luring in the background, scoping the territory, keeping time of how long every person is gone, keeping a record of who is saving seats for their families, waiting for the moment when nature calls and you have to leave, to say "don't see anybody sitting here, do you?

xxxx

Sandi is talking about...I know there are people losing sleep checking everybody's spelling and grammatical mistakes

First Arrived

xxxx: <BR>If you read Sandi's original post, that's not what she said at all. She asked about someone saving seats for people who weren't there yet. Some just put something on the chair(eg. a napkin, handkerchief etc.)and think they have claimed it. Or just say "This row is taken." when there is no one else there and never has been. <BR>To me this doesn't cut it.

Cindy

Yes, people should be allowed to save seats. Usually, the system works just fine. As with anything, a few people will abuse it, but that is the minority, in my experience. <BR> <BR>I usually arrive early for kids' school performances to get the best seats. If I am not early enough, that is too bad for me, and I would never try to evict someone from a seat they indicated was occupied. I choose from what is available when I get there. I save seats for my husband and his parents (four seats), and sometimes hubby arrives late. If someone challenged me, I'd be astounded and, um, they would not get the seats. <BR> <BR>So what's the difference between that and letting all of your friends cut in line at the buffet? Well, when there is seating (or beach space), the person saving the space is saving a defined amount of space. In the buffet line, people behind you are rightly miffed if they thought they were in a short line only to find out it is a long line because you're going to let a busload of people cut in front. <BR> <BR>As for buying a bunch of concert tickets when you get to the window, that's fine, unless management limits the number of tickets per person, which they frequently do. <BR> <BR>For those of you steamed about all the seats with jackets hanging on them, just pretend that there was a hostess at the door, and as each family representative appeared, he/she was given reservations for as many seats as needed. That is how restaurants work, and no one objects, right? No one fumes because someone "saved" a table by sending one representative instead of having every member of the party present until it is time to eat. <BR> <BR>The funny thing is, while Sandi is prowling around, judging who has been gone too long, or perhaps has yet to arrive, I'm going to quickly grab seats in the next row before they are gone too.

xxxx

First Arrived, <BR>Read the post, I quote,"Then when you approach, they say that seat is 'taken'. I just usually sit down, and if they say <BR>it is taken, I reply, "don't see anyone sitting here, do you?" <BR> <BR>That is exactly what she said. If she does not see anybody sitting in the chair at the precise moment she arrives, she takes it. <BR> <BR>My question is also, how do you know that people are gone for the day? <BR>You also said that if somebody says "This row is taken," but nobody is physically in the seat at that moment they are lying and that gives you the right to take the seat. How do you know that the person did not just go to the bathroom and his or her fmaily member is telling the truth, and the seat is taken, but the person is just gone for a minutes? <BR> <BR>READ THE POSTandi will sit down first without asking (probably throwing the person's belonging away), and then if a family member says the seat is taken, she responds that if no one is physically present, then the seat is not taken. Therefore, the conclusion is you must be present in your seat at all times, otherwise it is considered to be abandoned (regardless of how long you are gone), and can be taken. <BR> <BR>Unless you spend the entire day scoping for seats, and monitoring the movement of your fellow travelers, you cannot be 100% certain that somebody is gone for the day.