At Bank of America I do have an "Advantage" account. High deposit? Hardly. I'm not sure what I did to get it. I have no savings there and don't keep a balance over a couple hundred in my checking account. But I do have an Equity Credit Line with them. That's all. My partner gets the same benefits and he has a senior account with them -- again no savings or other deposits with them and no minimum balance.

Howard and richardab, you are both right, of course. It isn't worth fretting over. But this is no more bizarre than all the screaming people do about getting a hundred dollars in advance for their "comfort" and having it cost maybe $5 or so to do it.

xyz, you may be right about always having that extra 1%, I don't know. But many here have always insisted that ATM's didn't carry that foreign exchange fee. I do know that the guy at Deutsche Bank said they were getting some flack from regular customers about the new 1% addition. This was along with that new deal that says if your ATM card has no Visa logo on it (meaning it's an ATM only card -- no debit) that it won't work in their ATMs, even though it may also be Cirrus or Plus. Just telling you what he told me.

Bartering in Europe--Hershey bars, Lucky Strike cigarettes, and sheer stockings are proven winners.

Hey guys...

You're right of course. In the scheme of things, the little fees here and the little fees there are not going to cause anybody to go broke.

But we're all creatures who like to save as much money as possible whenever possible and sometimes, little things add up to well more little things (how stupid of me!)

However, being a proponent of using cc's every place they are taken, I rarely spend cash whether on travel at home, whether for every day necessities at home, whether for travel in Europe or whatever. So I usually hit the ATM's for amounts equivalent to $10 or $20 at a time and if I have to pay $3, that is a 30% fee and that hurts. Of course the solution would be to pay cash for everything but that violates my (and only my) sense of the proper way to handle money!

But then again, as I always say, to each his or her own.

speak for yourself, xyz, no we are not "all" creatures who obsess over minor fees like you do. YOu aren't much of a finance expert if you can't manage your money well enough to avoid constantly taking out small sums of $10-$20 from ATMs. My few minor ATM withdrawal fees do NOT add up to more because I don't do that, I only use one a couple times a week, and I don't spend that much money, in general. I spend more on coffee on my trips than ATM fees.

Ah Christina I think you missed the point....

When I travel, I don't like walking around with large amounts of cash. I just don't need it. I don't buy newspapers anymore, I use internet cafes to read the newspapers I am most interested in. I don't make pay phone calls anymore, I use a mobile phone. Breakfast is usually included with the hotel room which of course ultimately is charged. Lunch...many McD's or local fast food places, if I eat there or whatever, take cc's as do low priced full service restaurants. Or I go into a grocery and take out ready made sandwiches or something. They take cc's. Local transport in most parts of the world take cc's. Eating dinner at any sort of restaurant takes cc's. Leisure activities such as the theatre take cc's. Let's see, during my recent trip to London about the only places I can think of where I needed to pay cash was at pubs for a pint or two and at the theatre for ice cream at half time (ouch £2.50 for a small cup of ice cream hurts) and my usual £1 at the local internet cafe each morning to check my e mail and read the NY Times, the NY Daily News, the NY Post, Newsday, USA Today...so I could probably live on a £20 cash withdrawal for 3 or 4 days! But as I said, that's the way I prefer to do business. Others prefer cash and that indeed is their business. I only give advice as to what I consider the best way to handle finances and makes the most sense to me!

This is why I love my credit union. No ATM fees anywhere in the world.

xyz123 is made the point very emphatically that some of us have been trying to get across here and on the thread about buying euro before departing: Make a decision on what's best for you and don't belittle someone who may not agree with you!

Today, the biggest budget buster is surely the Euro-to-USD exchange rate: 1E= $0.805

Still, no one enjoys getting gouged on the transaction fees. The true underlying cost of the transaction is just pennies ... it's all computerized. The increasing fees exist purely to jack up bank profits and earn hefty multi-million $ bonuses for the executives, not because there is an increase in the underlying cost of doing business.

I was doing this ATM research on behalf of my 20yr old college son, who'll be spending 4-5 months in europe starting in 2005. His habit now, is to make small $40-60 cash withdrawals.

He'll have to learn to safeguard his cash more carefully, and make larger withdrawals abroad, so that the ATM fees don't drain his account.

xyz, like you I would prefer to use my credit card everywhere. But we are going to Italy, and many places there don't accept credit cards. Or they may offer discounts for payment in cash -- which I know in the US merchants are not supposed to do, but I think the practice is common in Italy.

At any rate, I expect to have to use the ATM in Italy a lot more than I would in other countries.

nonnafelice, where did you get the idea that many places in Italy don't accept credit cards? That certainly has not be my experience during three trips there in the past five years to cities large and small! In fact, we found it just the opposite, i.e., the number of places that didn't accept credits were few and far between.

Count me amongst the group of people who count ATM bank transaction charges as chump change. On a recent trip, I made two ATM transactions for a whopping total of $6USD in fees. I never thought of fretting over this as a beer cost more than that. Let's just call it a vacation convenience fee.

While we're at it, I also don't understand why people have the Visa/Mastercard feature of their debit cards disabled before a trip. Makes no sense to me.

I agree with nonnafelice. Yes, more and more small businesses in Italy do accept credit cards but they also do give discounts if you pay in cash. Even hotels. Believe me, I know.

KS452, some people disable the Visa/MC feature of their atm card ("debit card") so that no unauthorized purchases can be made if the card is stolen (using the card as if it were a 'credit' card). Only the PIN-access function will work.

My new strategy for upcoming trip is to open a free chkng acct, get a debit or atm card, fund it with only the amount I'll need for cash and take that (+ a credit card) on my trip. This will protect my real checking account from any undue hassles from losing the debit card associated with it. (which I'm not taking).

Thanks to this board, two years ago we did exactly what Travelnut is suggesting. It was a tussle though. Our bank insisted that it was not possible to get a "plain" debit card. Again, thanks to this board, we persisted.

We now take one "plain" ATM debit card and two credit cards. As soon as we get money from the ATM--a large amount--it's distributed amony our family members so no one person becomes a walking bank.

I hate to bring this up again, because some people will deny it is true since they haven't yet had this problem. But I've had increasing problems with my ATM only card, and after this past summer's nearly three months in Europe have switched it back to an ATM/debit card.

What is happening is that SOME banks are now letting Visa services handle all their foreign transactions including their ATM withdrawals if it is from a "foreign" bank. As a result if your card does not have a Visa (or presumably a Master Card) logo and is not also a debit card -- it simply will not work in those machines. So far, I was always able to find another ATM near by from another bank where it will work, but I suspect it will become an increasing problem. The worst problem with this was in Belgium where I couldn't find any machine (out of dozens tried) that will accept an ATM only card. A bank officer in Brussels informed me that "all Belgium banks" are using Visa services and ATM only cards will no longer work in Belgium ATMs. While neither my partner's nor my ATM only card would work at dozens of attempts at ATMs, our traveling partners ATM/debit cards worked at those same machines every time.

For what it's worth, my other problems were in Italy at several different bank ATMs. So far I've had no problems in the UK, France, Germany, or Switzerland.

I remember when that happened to you, Patrick--it was just after I switched and just before we left for another trip to France! We decided that in the worst case scenario, we'd pay the exhorbitant credit card cash withdrawal. Our plain debit ATMs worked fine, though.

I can't speak for Belgium since we've never been, but I can tell you that in three trips to Italy, we've always had problems with ATMs even with the Visa style debit card. In Rome we started making bets on "how many ATMs would it take to withdraw $200." One day it took six different ATM matchine tries.

We had the same problem a few years ago. The ATM-only card worked only some of the time (even though the correct PLUS or Cirrus logo was on the back of the card), yet we had NO problem ever with the VISA debit cards.
Now, we carry 2 different VISA debit cards (different banks) and 2 different credit cards (both VISA and M/C). We split these cards up between us, and make mental note of which PIN goes with which card. With this approach, we are well-prepared for ATM glitches, card retention/destruction, loss or theft, etc. It is also possible to get cash inside a bank with plastic and passport. I've never tried this, however.

Quick, before I go to work...I read on one of these threads that you can take your card INTO the bank and get your money off your card via a teller. Have y'all tried this?

PLMN...

You can use a visa or mc debit card to walk into a bank branch with the visa or mc logo and request a cash advance. As it is clearing through the visa or mc system, on the bank's side it is a cash advance same as if a credit card is being used. However, on your side, it will be a withdrawal from your chequing account when it clears the system.

It is a very good thing to know; especially when you are travelling say domestically in the US. As you know, almost all banks now charge you $1.50 for using their ATM machines but they are not allowed to charge on a cash advance/cash withdrawal done with a debit card. I've done it a lot even with some cards I have had in the past with brokerage accounts. Schwab, for example, charges $1 (yes I know it's not a big deal but there is a principle involved) for withdrawals from an ATM plus you pay the $1.50 or whatever (although you don't pay in Europe) but if you walk into the bank and ask for a cash advance you don't get nicked for the $1 and you don't pay the $1.50...

But I am sure there are those who will say it is chump change and why worry about $2.50 and they're probably right. But I have my principles....

Incidentally, you can't do this with a plain vanilla ATM card which does not have the visa or mc logo on the front....an advantage of the debit card over the ATM card for sure.