Have any of you read "Death in Vence"-- ??? Even seeing the movie counts!

If every cruise ship tourist on the planet went someplace else, a great many sensitive people with minds just as fresh and un-jaded as yours would find Venice unpleasant, as they have through history.

You aren't a "better person" for having enjoyed Venice. The people who don't like it aren't "jaded". They find it depressing. Filled with decay. Full of sad overblown monuments to the folly of human vanity. Too much about the torture of the flesh. Too many reminders of disease. There are almost no trees in Venice. No fertility. Little fresh air.

There are other lagoon and canal towns in the world in case you didn't know. Some aren't very far from Venice, actually. If you want an "incredibly unique experience," go to Puglia and wander the Sassi. Go to Perugia and ride the escalators. The search for incredible experiences doesn't have to begin and end with Venice. Other people can find the incredible outside of Venice.

But it has nothing to do with the OP's trip anyway. Almost all of you are advising he or she can't fit in all the places he or she mentioned. They have to skip some places. If the OP concludes he or she wants to go to Milan, or Rapallo or wherever more than Venice, do you really intend to take responsibility for making them skip that in favor of Venice.

But maybe they're already in Venice, the one place they wanted to see above all! All I really know is that they haven't come back here.

I love all of the responses. I was waiting to get an email saying I had responses. I guess I was wrong, because that didn't happen. I just now checked the site to view other forums today. Sorry for the late reply. The cities I mentioned were just "maybes". I have wanted to go to Venice to see the canals since I was a young. I want to experience Tuscanny, ever since I saw the movie Under the Tuscan Sun. So Pisa would fulfill this. I don't need to visit Florence. Also, I don't have a desire to visit Rome at this point. I hope to return to Italy and spend more time. This is my "sampler" trip. My husband and I are "if this is tuesday" type people. We love to "Sample". We love to go to out of the way journeys. I like Ira's comments. Maybe travel to Venice from Munich, stay 2 or 3 days, then go to the Italian Riveria as a base (suggestions for base?) and day trip from there. What day trips? Then can I get back to Munich from the West coast? We are physically fit youthful seniors and can handle a gruelly iteniary. Zeppole was right, we find this kind of travel exhilirating. You guys are really awesome with your comments. I savored each one.

I forgot to say 2+ hrs travel is nothing for us. We live outside of Chicago. The commute to the city can be 2 hrs in rush hour. Also, we can cut out the visit time with family and spend a few more days in Italy. LOL

Zeppole: It's just all how ya look at it....that's all. I'm one of those people that likes to see the good in everything.

A novel, a splendid piece of . . . FICTION. Read it at 14, never saw the movie.

The movie showed a lot of scenery, it wasn't the story that interested me, but the beauty of Tuscanny. That's what I want to savor, I can only hope for Sunshine. Zeppole,since you live near Rapallo, maybe you can suggest day trips. I have a friend who travels for work and recommended Rapallo as a base. But I am flexible. Can you suggest another base, where I can experience the Italian Rivera and a sliver of Tuscanny? My other thoughts were flying into Milan and hanging out in the city possibly spending the night, then taking the train to somewhere south of Genoa. I really thought day trips with 2 hr travel times was OK.

I too love all the opinions expressed here. Dutto11 obviously wher you go is your choice. Based on your posts no matter what destinations you choose, I suspect you will enjoy the exposure to Italy. My wife and I visited Italy for the first time last May. Started in Venice. To Rome by train with a over night stop in Florence. Rented a cra and drove back north car to a villa in Tuscany for 6 days with day trips to Sienna, Cortona, Chuisi\s etc. Loved the experience and learning. For me I felt the 2 days in Venice were not enough. I would love to go back and spend a few more days in Venice.

Ann1,

Am I just imaging a whiff of "holier-than-thou" in that assessment of yourself as "one of those people who likes to see the good in everything"? And surely you can understand that people who know the history and art of Venice see very little good in having its fragile environment swarmed by people gleefully encouraged to go there and COMPLETELY IGNORE that history and art and instead "just wander aimlessly" and "eat gelato". Not good.

Two of the most missable world destinations are Florence and Venice. In particular, Florence. Venice does have the attraction of being, as someone above mentioned, different.
However, if you want to be swamped by cruise ship tours and foreign tourists - go. If you want to spent hours trying to scrape the surface to find and sign of local culture - go.

Can't speak from experience in April as I haven't been so early in the year.

If you want to find large scale Italian culture without the tourists visit Turin.

If you want to find Italy go to any of the tens of thousands of small villages and towns out there, which give you an idea as to why this is such a hugely diverse and great country.

Dutto,

You can't use the Italian Riviera as a base for day trips to see to the scenic parts of Tuscany that were the inspiration for "Under the Tuscan Sun."

If you want to begin in Venice, follow that with a trip to Tuscany. Pick up a car in Venice and head to the area of Chianti/Arezzo/Cortona. (I would pick someplace just outisde Arezzo. Check Tripadvisor.) Then drive to Pisa, see the monuments, drop off the car at the train station and take the train to Rapallo.

To get back to Munich, you should check out the possibility of flights into Germany from Genova airport, Pisa airport, or Milano airports (there are two, Malpensa and Linate). You can reach all by train from Rapallo.

If you don't want to rent a car at all, do the same trip except take the train from Venice to Cortona and see what you can by train and bus. From there, get an early start to Pisa, stow your luggage in the station (or spend the night) and see the monuments. Take the train from Pisa to Rapallo.

But a car will allow you to do more sightseeing in the countryside around Chianti, Arezzo and Cortona.

Hope that helps.

zeppole, I knew you could see where I was coming from. Thank you for your advice...It sounds like something we can manage. Just a little driving. My husband doesn't want to be rubbernecking and possibly have an accident. I found a night train to Venice from Munich. With private facilities, it is $526 for the two of using Trenitalia.com Does it matter what source I get the tickets from? I found an air ticket from Malpensa using Air Berlin that doesn't have a stopover. So with your advice I think I am good to go. Since you live near Rapallo, what hotel would you suggest. I found the Lido on-line. We can go 2 or 3 star. We will only sleep there. We will be out exploring all day. For everyone else...any suggestions for a hotel in Venice? There are so many knowledgeable travelers on this site. I am just a tourist...my husband has a job that he can't get away from for extended periods, so we travel... so I can say, "to myself" I have been there. I watch TV and say..."I have been there". Someday I will become a traveler, if finances allow...usually time and money do not go together...but in the end, I can say, "I have been there".

Couldn't resist adding my 2 cents about Venice. I'm one of the "non Venice fans." The reason is it's lack of diversity. After a few hours, one canal looks just like any other, one mask like another, one piece of glass like all the rest. The food? hmmm, well, it's food. BUT, would I say, don't bother with it? Heck no! To me it's one of those bucket list places.
If you have always wanted to see Venice, by all means GO!
I've been many time for people I travel with who want to see it, and as much as I would rather be in many other places, I do enjoy wandering for a day. Two nights and one full day is enough for me. No matter, I'm sure whatever you decide you'll have a fantastic time in wonderful Italy, and will return.

dutto,

Precisely becuase I live nearby I never utlitize hotels in the area! Even so, I always recommend to travelers that they use Tripadvisor or Venere.com to pick a hotel because the user reviews are so recent and include important information like "they had just started constructing something next door to the hotel" or "we found out when we arrived they no longer have a restaurant" or some such.

When you look for a hotel in Rapallo, pay close attention to issues of noise. Some hotels in Rapallo are on streets with lots of traffic -- including motorcycle traffic -- and it's nicer to be in a peaceful place on the Italian Riviera.

If you don't find what you are looking for in Rapallo using those websites, look in Santa Margherita Ligure (the town next door) or Camogli, the town after that. Both have train stations and both get less auto traffic than Rapallo, and many think both are prettier than Rapallo, although both are steeper than Rapallo. If you like a lively scene, Rapallo is the best bet for that.

There is a fantastic gelateria in Rapallo, one of the best I think in Italy, which you might want to visit even if you stay in the other two towns. It is called Frigidarium, and it is right at the seaside promenade in Rapallo, opposite the short square castle. It's not hard to find, and its fruit flavors are memorable.

Also in Rapallo is a marvelous cable car ride that whisks you way high up into the hills for an incredible view on a clear day of hundreds of miles of mountains and coastline. It is beautiful, too, to take a boat to enter the harbor of Portofino. Boats leave from Rapallo, Santa Margherita and Camogli .

Have a lot of fun!

PS: I don't know the answer to your question about train ticket purchases. You might try starting another thread just about that.

Thank you Travmini, I'm sure...as a newbee, that I will enjoy Venice. Zeppole, I did consider Santa Margherita Ligure, but I worried about the train connection. All I can think about is gelato, so thanks for that recommendation. I like a lively scene, but my husband doesn't so one of us will be happier.I was told about the ferry to Portofino, but not about the cable car.That sounds wonderful. I am so excited about Italy after all of these comments, that I think I will change my ticket to fly directly into Italy and not see the relatives. Now I have to decide which airport to fly in and out of, which will allow me to still see Venice. Thank you all!

Zeppole: I have studied the history and art of Venice. I don't think you understood what I said....I don't approve of the swarms of people who go to Venice and don't understand and appreciate it. I said it needs to be savored, experienced and understood. In doing that, you need to know the history and appreciate the art. Included in that art is the city and the buildings. That's why you need time to be there. I also said Venetians don't appreciate cruise ships that dump a few thousand people on the city for a couple of hours. I am not going to trash a city that has so much to offer. I love Venice....I understand it and appreciate it.

dutto,

There is no problem with taking a train to Santa Margherita Ligure, If your husband doesn't like a lively scene, take the train to Camogli and spend time there. Why don't you fly into Venice airport.

Ann1

Nobody was "trashing" Venice -- not even Thomas Mann. And its present-day eulogizers haven't failed to appreciate the glory of city. ( I suspect, if you don't mind my saying so, that I've spent more time in Venice than you have, and I only go there for the art and architecture, believe me. Not the ambience, or the food.) Venetians are of two minds about the cruise ships and people spending nights there: Having enough hotel rooms with modern facilities and constant laundry is actually very hard on the city and the lagoon environment. Cruise ship tourists in some ways have less of a bad impact than the people who come for 2 or 3 nights. Ideally, Venice would like what Tuscany has: affluent retirees coming in to stay a week -- but then the hotels worry they'll want apartments, not hotel rooms.

In a saner world, Venice wouldn't be supported by tourism alone, but by international subsidy. And people who love Venice would stop insisting everybody go there. And likewise people who understand the rewards of travel would stop telling other people that some places, like Venice, can't be skipped if you are near them, when of course they can.

Wow...this entire argument about Venice leaves me speechless. Yes, I do want to absorb the beauty and architecture. I love "old", which is why I want to see "old" which is why I love Europe. I don't care about the food or shopping. (OK...maybe the gelato and Hungary's goulash and Austria's pastries) I just want to go to someplace rich in history and savor it's history. I want to know how other's live and walk in their shoes for just a little while. Oh, if only I was one of those affluent retires. I save for my once every two years "big" trip and try to get the most out of it. I feel guilty, now that I will be one of those American's overloading Venice's environment. We have the same problem in the states with modern cities where the enfrastructure cannot handle the population. Venetians propably do welcome the cruise ships...leave your money in Venice and your waste on the ship. Ha Ha.

Venice can be magical or a huge downer. I've met folks who just go back there and have bought a place. I have a friend who got knocked off a scaffold by a tourist-he didn't enjoy Venice at all.

Zeppole, DH and I have travelled to Italy several times and have relied on the "must see" recommendations of travel pros, books and friends (including Fodor folks). I don't think anyone is pressing posters when they say they loved a place or don't miss this or that.

What irks me a little is when I say "I want to visit x" and posters say, "Oh go to y instead"-perhaps that is what you mean by pressuring? Maybe we should come up with a way to more gently say "you'll be in the area of x and y-you might want to read about them as well"????

On the other hand, your saying a place is skippable is not acceptable either. I gotta agree with surfergirl there. OP did say s/he wanted Venice.