Need large cash exchange in the U.S.
 

I leave in 10 days, and will need to take a 1200euro payment to the landlord for my apartment. I have been doing research on the board, and have read about the prevailing wisdom of bringing minimum cash and using ATM in Europe. However, I don't feel comfortable doing that because I can't take out more than $500 on the ATM plus if it doesn't work, it'll be awkward explaining my lack of $$$ to the landlord.

Anyhow....for those of you with experience: what's the best of the worst? My bank account? Bank of America (I have their Visa card - not sure if I can even use) - AAA (I'm a member) - AMEX (not a member) - or someone mentioned Wells Fargo overnight shipping? Any other choices/thoughts?

YOUR HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED!! Thanks in advance.

I would just exchange US$ for Euros in the US right now and bring it with you. You will probably not get as favorable an exchange rate as if you withdrew from an ATM straight into Euros, but IMO any exchange rate "loss" will be a wash with the cost of overnight cash shipping, the % Visa will charge you, wiring yourself money via Western Union, buying traveler's checks or another method if you really think you won't be able to get that much cash out of a European ATM. You could also just bring it in US Dollars and exchange it at a bank in Europe, you may get a slightly better exchange rate in Europe.

1200 isn't a huge amount to carry in cash - though if you are concerned, just get it in travellers cheques and change it when you get over.

You're there for an entire week, right? I can't see why a landlord would be unwilling to "hold" your $1500 (USD) in cash (American dollars), while you withdraw the euro from an ATM over a series of days. But maybe you don't want to carry around a lot of cash.

As others have said, you could simply get the euro before leaving and mentally factor itinto the cost of the rental - - if it's $1600 instead of $1500, is it going to ruin your trip or make/break your budget - - most likely not. Still, if you can save $100, I would likely do it.

Best wishes,

Rex

Hi G,

>I can't take out more than $500 on the ATM ...<

Ask your bank to raise your daily limit.

You could even have them raise your daily limit on a given day.

You might have to go to more than one ATM machine, as they usually limit you to about 300E per transaction and might not have 1200E when you get there.

You could also ask your landlord to hold a check for $1450 while you collect the euros.

Today's rate is $1.18/E.

((I))

The daily limit is the lower of your bank's limit and the Italian bank's limit.

Presumably €1200 is the rental for the whole week, not just a deposit, isn't it ? We've certainly withdrawn at least 2 x €300 from Italian ATMs in one day; so couldn't you pay half on arrival and half later if you can't get any more ?

>The daily limit is the lower of your bank's limit and the Italian bank's limit.<

The banks in Italy don't care how much you withdraw as long as your home bank accepts the transaction.

There will be a maximum per transaction, but as long as there is money in the machine you can keep taking it out.

((I))

Sorry, Ira, but that's not my understanding - and I do work for a European bank.

Hi CE,

On our last visits to Italy and to France I found ATMs that had a max as low as 200E. Since my bank's daily limit was higher than that, I made two or more transactions from the same machine.

Perhaps it was a different bank?

Perhaps the banks had a higher daily limit than my bank?

((I))

Hi Gam

This reminds me.

Open another account. Get another ATM card.

Ask the bank(s) to raise your daily limit to 600E ($750).

Take out 1200E in 2 transactions.

If the bank won't raise your daily limit, open 2 new accounts.

I have 2 accounts, one of which I use only for travel.

((I))

My wife & I both have ATM cards with different account numbers on the cards for the same checking account. Our limit is $500 each -- so, that's $1,000 per day.

Additionally, it would be cheaper to take a cash advance on your credit card thru the ATM and then pay it off immediately when you return to the States. The interest will be "peanuts" compared to the cost of obtaining Euros in the States with all the fees/lousy conversion rates.

I think that might be your cheapest alternatives. ((b))

Brilliant! I had an AHA moment when Rex and several others mentioned bringing the cash in dollars, and worst case scenario, the landlord can hold the dollar quantity while I run around looking for an ATM machine. SMART! I'll be in the Jardins de Luxembourg area, so there must be oodles of banks to choose from either northwest of where I'm staying (St. Germain) or south (Montparnasse)

Also the suggestion about opening a new bank account -- Husband could belong to a credit union - we've been on the fence about doing that. Well, this tips the balance. Having an extra ATM card would be good. I wonder if they have a better exchange rate/ATM fees...Ive read here that some people found that to be the case.

Finally, I will call my bank today to cajole (or threaten) them into raising my ATM limit to the max. Hey, it's my money, I should be able to take out as much as I want, right?

Thank you...this was so helpful!! I'll be swinging a few other questions your way before I go....

Don't give up if the bank customer service agent you talk to on the phone says they can't raise your limit. They often give incorrect info. You can go into the local branch and they will do it for you.

Just got back from Italy where we rented an apartment and needed the balance of 1,000 in Euro's when we arrived. We bought the Euro's through our bank in the US (within 2 days) and brought them with us. We then used the ATM for Euro's upon arrival for spending money.

By the way, our bank only charged us the exchange rate for the day and no extra fees.

Agreed, Ira, there are many possible combinations. But I believe that both the customer's bank and the 'host' bank can (but may not) apply both a transaction limit and a daily limit. Not even getting into unusual patterns of use... :-)

Another idea,

Most major US banks have cooperating agreements with one or two european banks. Call your bank and ask for the name of the coop/affiliated bank in country X, ask about the transaction costs.

If you do the transaction 'over the counter', then it is outside of an ATM limits etc.

I'm not sure what the cost/exchange rate will be, but it's worth a look:

<b>http://www.foreignmoney.com/Drafts/InternationalMoneyOrder.aspx</b>

maybe it will work for you.

Why not go to AAA and get the traveler's checks in Euros for the amount of rent you need-they are usually free if you are a member. Then open the ATM account at your husband's credit union. My mantra is ALWAYS have TWO different ATM accounts and TWO different credit cards when traveling overseas. Reason-theft,overspending on one and the one thing that always seems to happen on a trip...the machine spits out the card and won't work.

AAA travelers checks in euro are definitely not &quot;free&quot; if you are a member. They charge a percentage over the official exchange rate to make a profit when you get them in euro. It is quite high (at least 7% as I recall). They are free if you get them in USD.

Can't you just get a cashier's check made out from your bank? I would never carry around that much cash myself, but I know the odds of anything happening are slim. Even if you can't get your bank to get one made out in euro (and I think they need some affiliation with a european bank to do that), you could have this landlord hold that check while you got ATM cash, and then just give it back to you. I get cashier's checks free from my bank, but I have a premium account.

We have had money wired from the US to banks in England. There was a fee involved, but I do not recall it to be that out of line (this was 2 years ago). We had to do a lot of paperwork b/c of 9-11 and wait a week or so, but the bank gave us a break on some of the transfer fees because we opened an account.

Make sure you check your ATM fees. This summer we were charged a total of 3% per transaction amount (for foreign currency exchange and conversion rates or god knows what else.) It added up. I later learned there are many, many banks and cards that do not charge 3% for each withdrawal. I used US Bank by the way.

Your question was about the cheapest way of converting dollars into euros.

Get the money out of your bank in your own currency. Take it to wherver in the Eurozone you have to pay the deposit.

Then walk up and down any major shopping street to find out which bank or bureau de change will give you the best net, net rate.

Retail forex is a highly competitive market in Europe. Not everywhere in Europe, since &quot;location, location, location&quot; often encourages traders in protected sites to make a margin. But there's almost everywhere a street with a dozen or so competitors who can be induced to keep each other honest.

That's never the case in the US, which is why buying foreign exchange in the US is really always best avoided.

I can't even begin to understand why anyone would get nervous about carrying that little in cash around.

I have two accounts with ATM cards for this type of situation as well as if one of my cards or accounts does not work. Thus, I have a back up plan. I also went into my local Wells Fargo Bank branch and requested an increase on my withdrawals, there was no problem. In fact, they offered to increase it higher than I really wanted. I did run into a problem in Belgium in that the ATM machine would only let me have the maximum it was programmed to give out at any one time. I simply made more than one transaction and thus had enough to pay the hotel bill. I also think that if you email the apartment and tell them of your situation and that you will give them a partial payment on the first day and the balance the next day they may be inclined to accept this. If you wait until you arrive to spring this on them, they may be a bit more hesitant. Just a though.

Continued thanks for the great replies. A couple of follow-up questions:

I did some legwork today and found out the following:

My bank charges $3.50 per ATM transaction withdrawal. I have a premium account so that's their special &quot;deal&quot;. The lady said that she couldn't tell me the exchange rate for withdrawing money because that was determined by the European bank. Is that so? Of course, that doesn't even count the ATM fees charged by the French bank!

Had I wanted to buy Euros today (and $1.18 to 1 Euro was mentioned as the interbank rate for today, right?) -- the bank would have given me $1.27 for 1 Euro. No other fees because I'm a premium member. Is that &quot;normal&quot;? Seems high. Also, does that mean that if I had withdrawn from my ATM account in Paris, I would have gotten the $1.27 rate anyhow? If so, I might as well get it here!

Anyone see today's exchange rate in Paris? whether through ATM (assuming it's not your US bank that sets exchange) or through Bureau de Change?

We opened the credit union account -- sadly, they will charge us as much ($3.50) per ATM withdrawal. So my limit at my main bank is $1,000 and my limit at the credit union is $500. Just enough for the deposit!

BUT if I can find a place that sells me Euros that's closer to today's rate ($1.18, or even $1.20), it'll be worth it, even with fees, since in Europe, I have no idea what the bank's ATM will give me.

Anyhow....Sorry but this is really getting to me!! I feel that I'm being robbed!! Incidentally, AAA sells a &quot;starter&quot; euro pack with an exchange rate of $1.45 to 1 Euro!!! Highway robbery. Their rate for members is 1.27 Euros to $1...no help at all.

gambader, your original question was with needing 1200 euros to pay for an apartment. Assuming that you get the landlord to agree to a timed payment, and that you up your withdrawal to a maximum of $500, the $3.50 is less than 1% and you can forget about it.

Secondly: The French banks do <b>not</b> charge a separate fee for taking money from their ATM. However, it is possible that ATM withdrawals are at an exchange rate that is somewhere between what the banks charge each other and what they would charge tourists.

You will be charged more than the ATM bank fees for cashing TCs and get the foreign cash at the more expensive tourist rate, and it will be far less convenient. Figure on taking $350 at a time from the ATM and look at the fee as a 1% fee from your bank.

The limit set by your bank is usually a daily limit. - Therefore, just go back to the atm the next day.

Gambader: You will never find a cash-to-cash exchange rate that is anywhere close to the official rate. Your bank has expenses for handling currency -- space, security, personnel -- that do not apply to its processing of ATM transactions.

If the official rate (that is for transactions between banks involving millions of dollars/euros), is 1.18 Euro per dollar, the rate to expect from a bank ATM in France would be about 1.20. Even adding a transaction fee of $3.50 from your bank (there's no fee from a European bank for ATM withdrawals) you are way ahead of any other method of obtaining cash in a foreign currency.

If it takes three transactions to get enough currency, your cost to obtain 1200 Euro would be $10.50 plus maybe $20 for the 1-1.5% built into the ATM's exchange rate -- far better than the
9 cents per Euro (1200 x .09 = $106) that your bank quoted.

This sounds all too confusing go back to what I said originally. I was just to Europe and did this. It's very simple. Just enjoy your vacation when you get there.

Thanks guys. This really helps. Kayd, your math really helped crystallize the difference. I will try to make due with minimal euros until I get there. Didn't realize that the ATM there was SO MUCH more reasonable than our bank exchange rates here. Seems ridiculous.

&lt;&lt; Didn't realize that the ATM there was SO MUCH more reasonable than our bank exchange rates here. &gt;&gt;

If &quot;we&quot; got that notion across (one more time), then this thread (and countless others before it) are worth the repeating...

And it's so entirely logical. No human has to be involved with checking the calculation; a big computer somewhere does all the calculation, and communicating the debit from your account with no (real-time) labor cost...

...but the far more significant difference is the cost of transporting/distributing and keeping inventory a rarely needed item to a location which can serve you on a retail basis... versus unlimited supply <i><u>in</u></i> Europe. Even a teller window (in Europe) cannot match the low cost of the transaction at an ATM machine... if you buy yht euros with US, or any other foregin currency (or traveler's checks), then that bank has the cost of transporting it back to some central bank which will sell it back to some place that wants/uses it.

After reading all this, it seems I'm the only person on this planet to get a decent exchange rate for my &euro; using an ATM. Using a &quot;Deutsche Bank&quot; card I get the official rate for foreign stock at BoA, Scotiabank Paribas and a few other banks. It's not one percent in fees, but much LESS. It's the &quot;wholesale rate&quot;.

Rex,

So using this logic, would Europeans traveling to the U.S. receive a good exchange rate using their ATM cards on U.S. bank machines to withdraw dollars? Because I got the impression from my bank assistant that the ATM exchange rate here for someone wanting to withdraw $$$ was just as bad (buying dollars here in the bank using a European ATM card was what she said)...but maybe I got it wrong. I'm sure U.S. banks would charge a hefty ATM fee for nonbank customers...I guess that doesn't happen in most French banks?

logos999, maybe I should get a European bank account!

&lt;&lt; would Europeans traveling to the U.S. receive a good exchange rate using their ATM cards on U.S. bank machines to withdraw dollars? &gt;&gt;

This is what I believe(d) to be the case, but as you might suppose, I have no firsthand experience to confirm one way or another. I'll see if I can think of some people to ask, by e-mail, about this. Sheila? Other Europeans here? There is also another <font color="Red"><b>TRAVELERS</b></font> message board where I can ask. I'll have <font color="red"><b>TO GO</b></font> there and inquire.

;)

Hi gam,

&gt;I'm sure U.S. banks would charge a hefty ATM fee for nonbank customers..&lt;

Aye, that's the rub.

US banks charge charge as much as $5 per transaction.

((I))

Why do you think that, Ira? I just wondered because I thought the reason there are no ATM fees from European banks to foreigners using their ATMs (at least Americans, which is my only experience) is because of some international banking or ATM network agreement. I know that my hometown personal bank ATM clearly has a message on the screen that says the same thing -- that it will charge fees to a nonbank customer, but only if they are from a US bank. In other words, the same reciprocal agreement.

As for exchange rates, someone above said they are the only ones to get decent ATM exchange rates in Europe. No, I get pretty close to bank intercharge rates when I use my ATm card in Europe. There seems to be some idea from some folks above that individual European ATMs determine their own specific exchange rate, and I don't think that is the case at all.

I don't think people should get that freaked out over a $3.50 ATm fee abroad, though, if that's the only fee. That's higher than my bank (and actually, I have no fee, but it used to be $2 until they recently got rid of them all for marketing purposes), but a few $3.50 ATM fees isn't a very big deal IMO. I don't use an ATM that often in Europe, maybe twice a week. There isn't a big reason you should have to use one that often, if you use credit cards for all major charges.