autowalla

Hi,
My partner and I are travelling from India for a 20day holiday across Spain, France & The Netherlands.

We've booked our tickets. The plan is to arrive into Madrid on 3rd Oct & fly back home from Amsterdam on the 23rd 2011. We desperately need help recommendations on the an itinerary & things to do between those two dates & cities. We want it to be a mix of big cites & some country living. We also need help in figuring out the best way to travel between these places… air/rail/bus? All this on a budget, not shoestring budget though…. If there is a difference

Our current/ideal plan is:
3rd Oct: Arrive into Madrid. Spend about a day/day and a half here at max. Not sure what to do here. Using it more as a gateway into Spain and a start for our holiday.

4th Oct: Get into Granada: Spend about 2 days there.`

7th Oct: Get into Barcelona: Spend about 3days here. (Is that enough time, or it too much?)

Footnote for Spain: I know it’s barbaric, but we do want to see a bull fight. Where can we see one in any one of these 3 cities. Also are there any recommendations on a day trip to a beach town off Barcelona or Granada?

11th Oct: Travel across to France’s Dordogne/Quercy region. Spend 2 days here taking in the views of the little towns/village and the prehistoric caves. But we aren’t sure where we should be staying: Should we stay at Sarlata-La-Caneda or Les Eyzies-De-Tayac-Sireuil?

14th Oct: Travel to Dijon. Spend a day or 2 days here. The idea is to visit/take a quick tour of the vineyards in and around Dijon.

16th Oct: Get into Paris. Spend 4days here. 1 out of the 4 would be to see the Place of Versailles.

21rd Oct: Get to Amsterdam. Spend about 2 days here.

23th Oct: leave to get back home

Does this sound too ambitious? What changes would you guys recommend? What is the best way to travel though these places?

Cant wait to hear from you guys.
Thanks!

Aduchamp1

This is very ambitious trip. I understand you are traveling 10,000 miles and want to see as much as you can, but it will feel as though you traveled an additional 10,000 when done.

The other problem is your budget. The cheapest way to travel is not always the fastest.

One way to save a lot of money is to buy food as you walking around a town or city and put it your backpack and eat back in the hotel room later that day. If you are not cheking in your luggage, be sure to pack good plastic utensils.

I suggest you get a map or maps and lay out your trip and then on-line get the bus, train, or plane schedule.

Their are cheap-o airlines like Ryan, Vueling, Spanair, and easy jet but be careful they have more rules than a monastary.

Michel_Paris

Another way to save money is to stay longer in one city and rent an apartment.

Look at rail between cities, including TGV. Part of decision will be do you want to see countryside of go from one city to another as quick as possible. Some of the cheaper airlines are indeed cheap, but they also have baggage restrictions.

For Dordogne, not sure that a car might not be best way. You don't want to rent a car in one country and return in another.

Kwoo

My daughter studied in Barcelona last fall & she did a lot of traveling using the cheap airlines, such as Ryan, Vueling, etc. To the best of my knowledge, she didn't have any problems with them.

I do agree with Aduchamp that you are trying to cover too much ground in 20 days. It's entirely possible to spend all 20 days in Spain, for example. If you hadn't already booked your tickets, I would suggest visiting only 2 countries, not 3.

We spent 5 days in Barcelona last fall & didn't see everything but felt that 5 days was fine to see the highlights & without rushing around too much.

To help you decide, we need to know what your interests are. If you like museums, there are great museums in Madrid, so 1 day may not be enough.

Since you are committed to 3 countries, I think you need to delete some regions. For example, maybe delete Granada from this trip and/or delete Dijon.

autowalla

Thanks Aducham, Michel & Kwoo.

To answer your question Kwoo, we are interested in museums, architecture, art, local markets & food.

Having put the itinerary down and looking through it myself I agree it does sound like a lot in 20 days.

We are veering towards dropping Dijon and adding the additional days to Paris/Amsterdam. But we are also not sure about the Dordogne region in France i.e. how do we get there from Barcelona and then get out of there to Paris. Any recommendations on that? We chose it because of the village like scenery & the prehistoric caves. But not too sure about that now. Any thoughts on this?

kimhe

Some comments:

I think the bull fight season will be finshed by the end of September.

Barcelona itself has got nice beaches, and three days are by no means too much in this one of Europe's most exciting and vibrant big cities. Excellent value budget hotel, close to everything: http://www.hostalorleans.com/index_eng.htm

About 1-1 1/2 hour with bus from Granada, you'll find fine beach towns such as Almuñécar and Nerja. http://www.nerjatoday.com/

Free tapas with every drink in the bar area (wine, beer, coke, water, whatever) in most bars/restaurants in Granada, Almuñécar and Nerja. Often you can make your own choice among a great variety of goodies.

In Madrid, this would be a great value budget hotel in an excellent location, just off majestic Plaza Mayor and close to both vibrant Plaza Santa Ana and the city nucleus Puerta del Sol: http://www.perlaasturiana.com/indexperla.htm

I love Madrid, and here are some suggestions I've previously posted:

Have breakfast or lunch at Café del Círculo de Bellas Artes in down town Calle Alcalá, 42. One of the city's most emblematic cafés. Grab a window table and watch Madrid life on bustling Calle Alcalá. Take the lift up to the roof topp terrace (the azotea) for the most spectacular views of the city. http://www.esmadrid.com/en/cargarApl...ntificador=179

Watch the sunset over the Guadarrama mountains from the terrace at El Ventorrillo in the Vistillas park. Great pollo al ajillo (garlic chicken) some say the best in town. Map, video and some pictures: http://11870.com/pro/restaurante-ventorrillo

Have lunch or some tapas at Casa Granada, on the 6th floor of an apartment building just off Plaza Tirso de Molina. Hard to find and a great terrace. http://www.tripfilms.com/Travel_Vide...ada-Video.html

Café Central, just off bustling Plaza Santa Ana, is a fabulous jazz venue with live performances from the best artists every night at 10. Entrance 15€. Good food also. Populart, a little further down the street, is also a great place.

Experience world class flamenco at one of the best tablaos. Madrid is arguably the flamenco capital of the world. Although the art form comes from the South (Andalucía), everybody has to conquer Madrid to get to the top. On their way there, or as an opportunity to try out new things and get an up close audience, many of them work the top tablaos. I recommend Casa Patas and Cardamomo, both close to Plaza Santa Ana.
http://www.casapatas.com/
http://www.cardamomo.es/

Medina Mayrit, an Arab bath-house just off Plaza Mayor in Calle Atotcha, 14. (Mayrit is the old Arab name (from the 9th century) of Madrid, meaning running water and referring to the water sources beneath the city). http://www.medinamayrit.com/

A stroll in the beautiful Retiro Park. http://www.aviewoncities.com/madrid/parquedelretiro.htm

Asturian Casa Mingo for the best grilled chicken and cider: http://www.casamingo.es/
Watch the video, and you're sold:
http://11870.com/pro/casa-mingo/videos/bc313f19

Txirimiri in Calle del Humilladero, 6 gives you an idea of why the Basque kitchen is considered among the best in the world. NB!!!! In the midst of one of the best tapas/restaurant districts in town, in and around Calle Cava Baja in La Latina.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...ri-Madrid.html

I never leave Madrid without having had the squid in its own ink and the famous cod at Casa Revuelta, also in the same district.
http://11870.com/pro/casa-revuelta

You should also try the excellent salmorejo, a somewhat thicker variant of the tomato/vegetable soup gazpacho, in Según Emma just behind the newly reopened gourmet-oriented San Miguel food market. http://11870.com/pro/segun-emma
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...ma-Madrid.html

First class dining at El Mentidero de la Villa:
http://www.mentiderodelavilla.es/
http://11870.com/pro/el-mentidero-la-villa

The Reina Sofia contemporary art museum. The second floor with Picasso, Dalí, lots of other painitings, posters, films, photos etc., dealing with a couple of the greatest civilizational breakdowns of the 20th century, the Spanish Civil War and WWII, completely blew my mind off a couple of years ago.

The Rastro flea market on Sunday, just as much about having some tapas and a vermut as about shopping: http://www.madrid-guide-spain.com/el-rastro.html

The Chueca and Malasaña area, north of Gran Vía, is Madrid's most lively shopping district that "combine both originality and the avant-garde. Specifically, the section made up of little streets perpendicular to Fuencarral and Hortaleza streets is a shoppers’ paradise".
http://www.softguides.com/madrid_gui...ne.html#chueca

This site is great about Madrid. http://www.esmadrid.com/en/portal.do

Aduchamp1

Best museum cities-Madrid, Paris, Amsterdam

Most interesting architecture-Barcelona

Best Market-Barcelona

Best Food-Paris

As far as contemporary art is concerned, go on-line for "Time Out" and look for the individual cities.

danon

There is no beach time in Oct. In Barcelona.
Madrid is a great museum city, several beautiful small towns for day trips
Not sure how you travel in Dordogne unless you rent a car.
Three days in Paris is very short ....
You have to calculate in the time needed to get from place to place, check in a hotel, unpack,
find your way around big cities..etc. often half a day is lost moving around.

dannydcov

I just did a trip that required a lot of travel in 21 days so I know this trip is definitely do-able. I bought a eurorail pass that allows for 6 days of travel in a 2 month period. This cost me about $400 and then we probably spent another 60-100 euros on reserving a couple longer trains.

If anyone who has been to or lived in Madrid will probably be upset with you-on my trip I only spent a night in Madrid in order to fly home- because there is supposedly a lot to see. One of the best museuems, El Prado, as well as great night life.

I lived in Barcelona for about 6 months and have been there multiple times and have yet to see the whole city; however, the top attractions can be seen in a few days. Here is not where to go see a bullfight... I have some friends living there and they said the region is trying to get rid of bullfighting. If you would like information on Barcelona message me on here.

Not really familiar with France, but I will tell you Paris is a lot bigger than I had planned. One of my friends suggested to buy one of the hop on-hop off bus passes and use it for tours as well as a free ride from place to place (obviously this won't work if you are not staying/going anywhere touristy). 4 days will be a stretch if you are a big museum-goer, but you can get a lot done in those 4 days.

2 days is good for Amsterdam if you hit the main spots- Van Gogh, Anne Frank (pretty depressing) among a few others. The red light district is definitely worth at least a walk through.

message me if you'd like any other info/especially on barcelona

easytraveler

You've gotten excellent advice so far.

I'd cut out Granada and leave that for another trip where you also take in the other cities in south Spain, like Cordoba and Seville. Spend those days in Madrid.

Travel to Barcelona.

From Barcelona, take the fast TGV train to Paris. You can rent a car in Paris and drive to the Dordogne and then return the car in Paris.

Cut out Lyon.

I would suggest substituting the Loire Valley for both the Dordogne and Lyon - at least for this trip. You might even be able to hook up with a tour from Paris and that will save your having to drive in France.

Then head up to Amsterdam from Paris.

I'm not sure you will even need a railpass as you will be training on only three segments:

Madrid - Barcelona
Barcelona - Paris
Paris - Amsterdam

It might be cheaper just to purchase individual tickets as soon as your plans are set. Train ticket prices tend to increase the closer you get to the travel date. check out seat61.com for trains in Europe.

I'm bookmarking this for future trips to Spain. Thanks kimhe and dannydcov.

StCirq

Drop the Dordogne. It's problematic to get there from where you'll be, you can't do much of anything there without a car, and you can't possibly do it justice in two days (you could easily spend all 20 there and still have hundreds of things to visit).

Personally, I'd forget about Dijon too. You're trying to see far too much in a short period of time. Add the extra days to Paris.

Aduchamp1

They have banned bullfighting in Catalunya.

PalenQ

Bullfights are banned in Catalonia - so only Madrid is possible and schedule a day when they are on - weekends perhaps.

Trains will get you anywhere you want to go - even the Dordogne - for loads on trains in those countries and railpasses (look at the Eurail Select Saverpass (two or more names on one pass) valid in Spain, France and Benelux (belgium Netherlands and Luxembourg) - a 3 country Select Pass - if over 25 it is first class only and my decades of incessant train trafvel in Europe make me adamantly recomme4nd first class for the average tourist, especially folks with luggage in town so IMO compare regular first class fares to the first class pass and I think you will find the pass a good deal - plus you can decide which trains to take once you are there - no need to prebook non-changeable non-refundable trains perhaps weeks in advance.

PalenQ

You can get online discounts in Spain at www.renfe.es and in France at www.voyages-sncf.com if you want to lock yourself into a specific train far in advance (to get the limited number of such tickets) and www.thalys.com for Paris to Amsterdam tickets - but the cheapest here which can be real cheap go quickly - just show up and you could pay hundreds of bucks more!

Michael

Skip the Quercy/Dordogne. You need a car once there, although it was not clear how you would get there in the first place, and a daily rental usually does not fit budget travel. If you need to see prehistoric paintings, the Altamira Caves might be a good alternative.

danon

Veiling flies. Madrid -Barcelona. for 40 euros
and. Barcelona - Paris. 40-50 euros

danon

Sorry,

VUELING

Aduchamp1

If you need to see prehistoric paintings, the Altamira Caves might be a good alternative.

Please note that the public is allowed into Altamita II, which is painstaking reproduction of the original along the lines of Lascaux II.

Aduchamp1

Sorry that should be Altamira II.

Kwoo

You can go swimming in Barcelona in October. We were there last October & there were still lots of people swimming in the Mediterranean. It was low 80's when we first arrived, then in the 70's. We also saw people swimming at Tossa de Mar along the Costa Brava.