mulva_1

We thought it would be fun/romantic (now expensive and logistically challenging) to spend Christmas in Germany and New Year's in Paris with mostly German sites in between from 12/16/11 - 01/02/12 The way I have our trip set up, we either spend 24 December through 26 December in Tirol/Bavaria (castles, snow, etc.) or Berlin (great city, lots of museums - all closed during this time I assume).

I need a sanity check on this itinerary.

12/16 to 12/18 -- Prague
12/18 to 12/21 -- Berlin (via 18:30 train)
12/22 to 12/23 -- Rothenburg (via Berlin 8:30/Arrives 13:30; train to Nurnberg; pick up rental car)
12/24 to 12/26 -- Routte/Fussen (via Romantic Road) (hoping for some advice on how to spend actual Christmas Eve and Christmas Day there with all things closed)
12/27 to 12/31 -- Munich (visit Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau - drive back to Munich)
12/31 to 01/02 -- Fly to Paris 12/31 in the morning; celebrate new year -- somewhere...

Any tips, advice or alternative Start/Middle/End would be grandly appreciated. I'm just sick to my stomach knowing I've started so very late on getting all this together!

Russ

I would reorganize 12/22-26 and dump the car, which will be a good deal more expensive.

Rothenburg: One night and the following day there is enough. In winter I would not bother with the other small RR towns, which will be deadsville. On the 23-26th, you should focus on larger cities, where there'll be more going on and you'll be able to get a meal somewhere. Fortunately, Nuremberg and Würzburg (actually a RR town!) are wonderful destinations near Rothenburg. I'd move to Nuremberg on 12/23 and stay there - maybe with a daytrip to Würzburg or Bamberg - for 3 nights, through 12/25. The train will get you out of Rothenburg and between the other towns cheaply - 29 Euros per day for 2 on a Bayern ticket. Then on 12/26, head south to Munich - the Bayern ticket again, 29 Euros on a direct RE train - and check in there for the duration of your time in Germany. You can daytrip to Füssen to see the castles from Munich by train - again just 29 Euros on a Bayern ticket for 2.

And you know, it's only about 6 hours to Paris by train from Munich. There's a 14:28 departure for 118 Euros (for 2) on 12/31 at the Bahn website right now.



On 12/23, take an afternoon train to Munich. Advance sale tickets for your date

swandav2000

hi mulva_1,

There's even an overnight train from München to Paris. If you want to indulge in a nostalgic and romantic evening, get a private cabin w/shower for the trip. Then buy some champagne, fresh bread, cheeses, etc, and have a real evening of it!

s

mulva_1

Russ - many thanks for your quick, detailed, and informative response. I think I got caught up in the whole driving through the Hansel & Gretel of it all -- forgetting how cold it will be and how not as lively some of the more rural places will be. I've traveled to Spain, France, and Italy, but always in summer/fall, so this is all new to me. Thanks again and wish me luck in getting somewhere to stay on Christmas Day!

mulva_1

Swandav2000 -- You are such a romantic!

marfred

hi russ,
what you mentioned sounds great, how about some advice for 2 seniors arriving at cdg on the 10th of nov. and going to le mans,for 3days and then off to berlin,for 2 weeks. Is there a good route to follow that will give us sites to stop at on the way to berlin and then back from berlin to paris through munich?we are looking to take advanage of the train system in europe so that we can see the countryside one way and sleep on the way back. Any suggestions?

PalenQ

For excellent train info check out these fab IMO sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. And though there is a Germany-Czech Republic two-country Eurailpass (only sold abroad I think) I do not think you are traveling enough to make it pay off - though I guess in first class compared to fully flexible first class fares it could - I always strongly advise first-class train travel for the average tourist on the trip of a lifetime - a lot more relaxed - IME of decades of train travel in Germany in first class there are always empty seats but not always so in 2nd class - seats in first class are bigger as well and there is more room to easily stow luggage - I always put mine on an empty seat near me.

The cheapest tickets would be online far in advance from www.bahn.de - the German Railways official site - can get some deep discounts in 2nd class (not sure about 1st class discounts if they exist) - but those are train specific and non refundable nor changeable I believe. If you want flexibility to hop on any train anytime then the pass may stack up well even in 2nd class as fully flexible full fares can be really expensive as www.bahn.de will show. And in Bavaria you could use the 2nd class Bavaria Ticket, bought locally where for two folks can ride all around Bavaria for a day for a pittance but again you have restrictions like not being able to ride the faster trains like you may want to between Munich and Rothenburg - being restricted to regional trains which are often much slower and again I would advise first class even on regional trains as they IME can also act as school buses with zillions of screaming kids piling aboard in 2nd class - this has happened more than a few times with me but if not on school days it won't/

PalenQ

Oops I note you are driving for much of the itinerary - failed to note that, sorrry - scratch info about pass.

november_moon

marfred - You might get a better response by starting a new thread. That way people will see it and the advice won't get mixed up with the advice for mulva's trip.

mulva - I think Russ' advice is right on the mark. Larger towns are the way to go that time of year. Also, I would definitely take the train rather than driving. It will be cheaper and probably easier. Trains in Germany are great.

I like Nuremburg a lot and it makes a great base for exploring that area by train. It is a hub, so there are plenty of trains. Last time we were there, we stayed at the Hotel Victoria, which is in the old town, but very close to the train station - it is actually only a few yards from the entrance to the pedestrian underpass which goes from the old town to the train station. We liked the hotel a lot and the location was very convinient.

For your visit to Fuessen and the Ludwig castles, depending on how your itinerary fits together, you might still consider staying up there 1 or 2 nights. It will be quiet, but that might add to the magic. I would still take the train up there rather than renting a car though. In Hohenschwangau village there is a hotel at the base of the hills that the castles sit on - I think it is Hotel Mueller. I've always thought it would be fun to stay at that hotel in the winter.

Russ

marfred: Le Mans is an 11-hour train trip. Not much time for stops. You can reduce this to about 8 hours of actual train travel by staying in Paris the night prior to travel near the Paris Nord station so you can catch the speedy 8:01 Thalys high-speed train to Cologne (11:15.) A 4-hour stopover there would allow you to see quite a bit. Then, a 15:38 ICE train from Cologne gets you to Berlin at 20:12. Or for 5 hours in Cologne, a 16:38 train gets you to Berlin at 21:08.

If you're spending a night in Cologne or elsewhere in Germany before Berlin, there would be more options, of course.

Then you have a trip to Berlin and another back to Paris. You probably should consider a France-Germany railpass. Although advance-sale point-to-point tickets might be an option, they don't allow you to hop on just any train like a railpass does; any changes of train schedule or refunds must be done well in advance and require extra fees. Also, your travel dates are pretty soon, and there's no where to know whether these would be a cheap option; I don't know your dates, and the cheap ones tend to sell out well in advance for popular routes. You can check point-to-point tix for yourself at the links below:

www.thalys.com (Paris-Cologne)
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en (adv. sale tix, schedules)

But I would also look into a 2nd-class France-Germany railpass - $349 each for 4 days of travel in the saverpass version - and you'd have lots of flexibility to travel on whatever trains you like. The Thalys trains can be used by railpass holders but require a seat reservation, and these are capacity controlled, so you'd want to attend to that soon.

http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/germany.cfm

Russ

"Le Mans is an 11-hour train trip"

I meant Le Mans to Berlin.

PalenQ

Berlin to Paris you can hop an overnight train and then be in Le Mans in a few hours the same morning.