need help with 1st visit to switzerland

Old Dec 13th, 2008, 02:30 PM
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Let me be frank.

You are an American and you plan a trip to Switzerland with an American concept in your mind. AND with a multitude of restrictions. You read travel guides for people without restrictions.

Please believe us Europeans. You need to make some compromises. And you need to skip some typical American ideas (camping in Europe is completely different from camping in the USA and forget about minivans or other typical American ways of traveling).

Most Europeans here on this forum who know Switzerland very well (DalaiLama even writes Schwyzerdütsch!) appear to give you the same advice:

Rent an apartment in Bern and do daytrips from there.

I understand that you probably cannot imagine how short the distances are in Switzerland. Within one hour train ride from Bern, you will have a wealth of different places and landscapes - you can explore Zürich with worldclass museums and metropolitan ambiance, you can visit quaint Luzern with its beautiful lake, you will be right within breathtaking mountain scenery - you will see everything you have been dreaming of and even more.

AND you will be self-catering and you have control about your family's nutrition.

Forget about a roundtrip. Tourist office websites recommend roundtrips because they are obliged to send tourists into different Kantones. It's a political thing.

For your first trip to Switzerland with only 9 days it will be perfect for you to stay at one base and do daytrips. Most of these daytrips can be done by train, but you should rent a car for one or two days in order to do some exploring on your own.

I recommend that you open www.viamichelin.ch and play a little around. You will be amazed what you can reach within one or two hours.

Then open www.sbb.ch and play again.

You will be amazed.
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Old Dec 13th, 2008, 03:45 PM
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I will just say that we have rented nice, fully equipped apartments for 2- or 3-night stays in several different locations in Switzerland. And I have seen many more on offer. They are often associated with hotels.

Borivlikar1 came here for help with planning the trip he wants to take with his family. I don't think the family's dietary restrictions are particularly severe, and should be easily addressed. We don't know how restricted his mother's mobility is. That may be the determining factor for what is realistic in terms of where they stay. But borivlikar1 himself says that they would like to experience 2 or even 3 different locations, so the thought of moving from place to place must not be all that daunting to them.

But I've probably said enough. DalaiLlama is the expert.
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Old Dec 13th, 2008, 04:04 PM
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Dear Borivlikar,

You have gotten a lot of good advice here.

I am now living in Zurich for 2 years and work in Bern. I use the trains a lot and generally leave my car parked in the garage. I think your family would really enjoy training about Switzerland in May. It is not like American train rides. You can bring your own picnic and drinks and see lovely scenery in a clean car with decent toilets available. Picnicking on the train is very typical esp. on the longer rides to Zermatt or San Moritz.

I generally travel first class, but during rush hour to certain destinations it is no guarantee of a seat unless you have actually reserved one. This is possible on certain trips - such as to Zermatt - but not on more local trips such as to Luzern. On the Zermatt trip the panoramic windows in first class are quite nice but not necessary. When you get to Zermatt you will see plenty of wonderful views on all the cable cars and cogwheel trains.

Some trains actually have a family car with slides and such (like at McDonalds) for young children. Ask about this. It would be perfect for you.

I really love trains and boat rides in Switzerland. The journey is as fun as reaching the destination.

Bern is not the only option for you, but is a place where your food needs might be most easily met. I commute 3 days a week to Bern - 4 hours a day. It is no problem and quite pleasant. Zermatt is a bit further afield and a long day round-trip but you can nap on the train. Or if you can find suitable short-term accommodations split your time between there and Bern. Luzern is pretty close and there are lots of nice day trips that begin there. You can also look into Luzern as a base but I can't help you with the food issues there as I'm not at all knowledgeable. It is a pretty decent-sized city so you may find everything you need.

I'm sorry I cannot help you with apartments.

The Swiss in general are pretty helpful so you will not be feeling as though you are in an exotic country where no one can relate to your dietary needs. Most pharmacists I have found speak excellent English and will be able to help you. There are generally doctors on call for emergencies. In Zurich the doctors make house visits during off times. Yup, seriously. Healthcare here is a dream. (I am a nurse.)

As mentioned above, I would just be very careful about the allergy to nuts unless you are sure the restaurant understands you. There just are nuts in a lot more foods here than in the US. If your son likes mac and cheese bring over some Annie's and feed him in advance of dining out. This is not an insurmountable problem just one that you can plan around. I'm sure you have to do the same in the US.

gruezi

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Old Dec 13th, 2008, 09:02 PM
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Hi all,

i thank you all for your time and good advice.

The general consensus seems to be

---two cities/countries is not possible
---making the base in one city is the common solution for our specific case.
---travelling on trains is easy ,convenient and relaxing.
---drop the idea of camping/minivan trips.

I am going to look up some maps to figure out my distances, my locations. I might drop zermatt from the itinerary if you guys think in a majority its not feasible( weather,distance,better alternatives). How about geneva or any other city in switzerland? is lichtenstein in switzerland or austria?

I am much more relaxed from your talks abt the food part. Someone thought i was being difficult....i wasnt. Just trying not to have medical problems to deal with, especially on a vacation.

I still have a lot of general q's but i will try to come up with specific ones.

When we visit grocery stores, do we get (readymade pasta) or (pizza that can be baked at home)?

When we do day trips from bern or any other base you recommend....are the late night trains that will take us back fairly well scheduled till late? that way we dont watch the clock.

Any cities that are kid friendly especially for a 3 yr old? like maybe zoos....1 hr boat ride....?
someone mentioned a trains with family car....can you shed more light on it please.

what is the diff b/w traveling without reservation and with? i thought having a ticket would do it. If not ....are the trains crowded to the point that 3 young people( in early 30's, 1 65+ lady and a 3 yr old find it very difficult? are these crowded in specific office hours or throughout the day?

any help with what kind of passes might be best for us(family pass) if bern was the base and then visit the various places mentioned in these forums.

Is rice easily available? one of the staples in our diet and a good consensus food for the people with restrictions.

Is 10 days necessary now in the changed circumstances( if i can call it that) or 7 days is sufficient without having to rush.

Any special needs as far as clothing is concerned for the month of may?

So much good advice from total strangers/good fellow travelers.Thank god for good beings and the internet.



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Old Dec 13th, 2008, 09:17 PM
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You can answer the important questions yourself now.

For the distances and the lay of the land, you need to get to know where things are. Go to www.google.com then type into the search field

map Bern Switzerland

and when it comes up, zoom in and out - from street-map level to seeing the entire country of Switzerland.

You are spending a lot of money on this trip, so invest some time in studying up about what you are buying - use books from your local library, and ask them for travel DVDs, or netflix some - it will be worth it for you to make the most of your investment. And share the info and the DVDs with your family so that everybody gets excited and has a chance to nominate places they see and like, to figure out if they are possible to visit. Some will be, some will not be.

Then use a guidebook or Google to read about places like Geneva and Liechtenstein etc., - we can't give you as much info as already has been printed in many locations.

Liechtenstein is not worth your visit, and Geneva not really either - you don't have time to spend on so-so destinations, you have to stick to A) what keeps your family happy and healthy and B) to the best targets you can hit in the short time you have.

So look only for A-list targets, Geneva is B-list or C-list.

Learn to look up the train schedules, it is so easy! Go to www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm and figure it out.
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Old Dec 14th, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Another vote to skip Geneva. Pick Bern. One day go to Lauterbrunnen then head up to the top of Europe.

Another day head to Luzern and do the boat ride of the William Tell express - absolutely gorgeous and your son will love the paddle wheels. Tell the restaurant on the boat your dietary needs in advance and perhaps they can accommodate you.

The family car is on the train from Bern to Zurich. I don't know what other trains have them but worth checking.

If your family does well to the top of Europe add in the Zermatt trip.

gruezi

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Old Dec 14th, 2008, 12:39 AM
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>>>When we visit grocery stores, do we get (readymade pasta) or (pizza that can be baked at home)?

Yes. Grocery stores are pretty similar to American stores. Large chains are Migros and COOP, high-end gourmet chains are Globus Delikatessa and Jelmoli Food Garage. See these pictures:
www.konsumfreu.de/images/migros_globusfood_3.jpg
http://www.vgt.ch/images2/migros-neumarkt-sg.jpg

>>>When we do day trips from bern or any other base you recommend....are the late night trains that will take us back fairly well scheduled till late? that way we dont watch the clock.

Yes. Trains are running frequently. Play around with www.sbb.ch

>>>Any cities that are kid friendly especially for a 3 yr old? like maybe zoos....1 hr boat ride....?
someone mentioned a trains with family car....can you shed more light on it please.

Zoo: Bern has a zoo.
http://www.tierpark-bern.ch/

Boat ride: On the lake in Luzern.
http://www.luzern.org/en/navpage-ExcursionsLU.html

>>>what is the diff b/w traveling without reservation and with? i thought having a ticket would do it. If not ....are the trains crowded to the point that 3 young people( in early 30's, 1 65+ lady and a 3 yr old find it very difficult? are these crowded in specific office hours or throughout the day?

Your ticket allows you to board any train which is running in your direction. The reservation garantees seats in a specific train (on a specific departure time on a specific train). Reservations are booked together with the tickets (you can book online, at the counter or at a ticket machine) and are inexpensive. In 80% of the cases, you won't have problems to find seats for your family. Only few trains are crowded, but better reserve. However, if you miss your reserved train - don't worry. Just take the next one.

>>>any help with what kind of passes might be best for us(family pass) if bern was the base and then visit the various places mentioned in these forums.

See www.sbb.ch

>>>Is rice easily available? one of the staples in our diet and a good consensus food for the people with restrictions.

Yes. And you will find condiments for Indian food in grocery stores (the bigger/the more central the better).

>>>Is 10 days necessary now in the changed circumstances( if i can call it that) or 7 days is sufficient without having to rush.

Of course, 10 days are better than 7 days, but 7 days will be sufficient. When you think about renting an apartment: Some apartments are only to rent on a weekly basis, from Saturday to Saturday.

>>>Any special needs as far as clothing is concerned for the month of may?

Onion principle. In the plains, weather can be warm and sunny (most likely) or cool and rainy. On top of the mountains you will encounter snow and ice and freezing temperatures. So take jackets and sweaters with you when you board a cablecar.

See this website. This should be the highlight of your trip:
http://www.jungfraubahn.ch/en/DesktopDefault.aspx
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Old Dec 14th, 2008, 12:42 AM
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I forgot to add:

Much depends on weather conditions, especially if you go up into the mountains or if you plan a boat ride on a lake.

So do not preplan a fixed itinerary (like 3 May Jungfrau, 4 May Luzern..) but be a little flexible in order to react to changing weather conditions.
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Old Dec 14th, 2008, 09:05 AM
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Since you live in Florida, the Jungfraujoch would definitely be one of the highlights. Your son can play in the snow there:

http://www.jungfraubahn.ch/en/deskto.../164_read-649/

Or you could take him on a dogsled ride:

http://www.jungfraubahn.ch/en/deskto.../164_read-603/

And there is an Indian restaurant up there:

http://www.gletscherrestaurant.ch/en...lywood_en.html


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Old Dec 14th, 2008, 10:39 AM
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www.rivieralodge.ch

This is the website for the hostel right in Vevey (which is about one hour outside of Geneva, next town over on the train route from Lausanne).

Go to English, then click on the chalet/studio button. I see the hostel also manages 3 different sets of apartments - in Vevey, Tour de le Peiz, and Montreux.
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Old Dec 14th, 2008, 10:41 AM
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Grocery shopping in Vevey or Montreux would easily fit your requirements. Yes rice is available. Yes you can get prepared pizza or pasta. Migros is a great store (in both Vevey and Montreux). Or a bit more upscale near the train station in Vevey is Placette/Manor with an excellent full service deli.
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Old Dec 15th, 2008, 07:30 AM
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Migros super stores are great and ubiquitous but don't expect to buy an alcoholic things there - about the only chain in europe i've seen whose morals still forbid themselves to see wine, beer or booze. The COOP store however is always nearby for such essentials (to some) Denner Diskount is often cached off the main drag but worth ferreting out for its lower prices.
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Old Dec 15th, 2008, 07:58 AM
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Pal Polly writes " buy an alcoholic things there".
OP made it very clear: "... no salads though...and no alcohol, no fish, no meat, no chicken."

If you know the history of Migros, a cooperative of consumer-shareholders under the pioneer Duttweiler (look him up - what a guy! - he started an entire consumer awareness movement that resulted in a political party, LdU, Landesring der Unabhängigen, influential for many decades) in the dark ages of food monopolies, bad distribution systems, and lack of healthful supplies, then you'll understand why it is in the Migros charter to this day that alcohol is not in the repertoire. But since Migros gobbled up the Denner chain, you can go there...

Migros means neither "en gros" nor "en détail" but that distinction is largely moot now.

Coop started similarly as a popular movement, out of the Workers' Movement (dare I mention the word that sends US-Americans into paroxysmal attacks - socialism?).

There's a reason for most things, usually worth finding out.

But back to OP's stated needs and concerns: Good luck with reading and accurately interpreting/translating food labels at Migros or Coop - good luck in finding somebody who speaks the local Swiss dialect fluently, let alone English to the point of being able to advise you in these critical (for you) matters. So - back to the Reformhaus where your health is of their concern.
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Old Dec 15th, 2008, 08:13 AM
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Or Dolly just let em eat Musli all day long? Watch out for nuts however?
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Old Dec 15th, 2008, 11:51 AM
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Sure, if Müesli is done right it has nuts, but it could be done without, of course. Just don't buy the prefab Müesli-Mix, make your own from scratch.
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Old Dec 16th, 2008, 12:42 AM
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"1.) need names of grocery supermarkets."
- Go to the local supermarket. Have an explanation of your problems and your needs. Use words like:
- Nuss Allergie (see Leo.org for pronunciation of single words)
- Zuckerkrankeit (Diabetic)

I think you'll find people are helpful and Swiss food very nutritious and natural.

"2.) need advice on whether second class or first class is better for panoramic trains."

Panoramic trains are all first class. You don't need a panoramic train to see the landscape. Any old train along the route will do. Use sbb.ch

"3.) how do pharmacies work? we are pharmacists and know what medications we might need for any condition. but is everything prescription strength only like america?"

A lot of medication you can get in the States you cannot get here over the counter. And it's very expensive here. I'd bring all medication needed and try not to rely on pharmacies.

Having said that, if something were to happen, go to the local doctor who will happily give you a prescription. We have very nice family doctors here.

"4.)where do i get a 120 v to 220 v voltage converter that is of good quality?"

Get it in the US.

"5.)please shed more light on youth hostels/camping sites if they are of any use in our specific case. But in whichever case, we need private baths."

Jugendherberge (Youth hostels) are very good and clean in Switzerland. People of all ages use them. The Swiss use them all the time. All of them can be recommended. See: http://www.youthhostel.ch/home.html?&L=1

"6.) how about renting a minivan or something and lugging the whole family around? I personally prefer public transportation."

If you stay in a apartment in the Berner Oberland area or Bern, you won't need a car. If you plan on constantly changing accommodations, a car might be preferable.

I would highly recommend renting an apartment in the Berner Oberland area (Lauterbrunnen, Interlaken, Wengen) and do day trips.
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Old Dec 16th, 2008, 06:14 AM
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Panoramic Trains

I assume you mean the Glacier Express type trains or Golden Pass - if so these trains do have second-class cars although you only find the Panoramic cars generally in first class - these are cars with glass domes. And there are regular trains that go over the same routes with, obviously the same scenery and on these trains you just hop on. Glacier Express, etc. typically require reservations and can always be full as many tour groups use them. Swiss Passes are valid on the scenic special trains but you must pay a few francs for the reservation fee.
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Old Dec 16th, 2008, 06:51 AM
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DalaiLama, where I live in the US (Seattle), there's a large co-operative HMO, a eight-branch co-operative natural foods store, and a very large co-operative sports equipment store that has branches all over the country (REI). To have a low digit REI membership number is a local point of pride.

So do not generalize about Americans thinking co-ops=socialism=bad.

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Old Dec 16th, 2008, 07:51 AM
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"So do not generalize about Americans thinking co-ops=socialism=bad."

Congrats, sounds like a fine undertaking. But does the co-op call itself - or the founding movement behind it - socialist? Do you dare to use that word?
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Old Dec 16th, 2008, 08:23 AM
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Dolly- The Peoples Republic of Seattle operates a little different than the rest of Amerika.
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