DAX

After 12 years we are planning to visit Tuscany & Umbria with friends: All 3 couples have been to most of the major Tuscany destinations, but some have never been to Umbria. I would appreciate Fodorite inputs to help optimize our 12 day trip. Our focus in Tuscany is Val d'Orcia.

Accomodation budget is 200-300 euros for comfortable hotels/small castles. Our priority however is wine & food, particularly truffle, all game and regional pastas & cheeses so I really need good restaurant recommendations. I studied Italian for one year and have learned the value of pre-trip vocab grammar reviews. We'll rent 2 cars.

Friday: Land in Pisa and stay in LUCCA (best hotel for 2 nights??),
Rent city bikes (where??), Restaurants recommendations??
Saturday: Stay in LUCCA , relax or bonus day trip to one/two towns in CINQUETERRE.
Need your opinions/suggestions.
Sunday: Drive to Val d'Orcia, stops in PISTOIA (restaurant?) &/or _____???
Best 3-4 night VAL D'ORCIA BASE : _______???
Mon,Tue, Wed: Wineries by appointment, in MONTALCINO, PIENZA,
MONTEPULCIANO (need markets in all??). Considering PITIGLIANO or other towns (need opinions & restaurants)
Thurs, Fri, Sat: Need an UMBRIAN BASE with GOOD HOTEL and restaurant.
Considering PERUGIA as I like the city except for fear of long traffic jam in & out of the city.
Daytrip: GUBBIO, ASSISI, TODI, considering SPELLO, SPOLLETO or NARNI (need restaurants & markets).

We are flexible with the number of days btw Umbria & Tuscany as long as we can fly out of Fiumicino on the 12th day (Sunday) staying closer to Rome on Saturday night.

DAX

Sorry, I meant 10 day trip (Friday to Sunday)not 12 days

Henry

DAX,
I have a large file for southern Tuscany. It is too big to post but e-mail me and I will send it. [email protected]

Henry

DAX

Thanks Henry
Anyone has input for cinque terre day trip from Lucca?

Mimar

I was about to congratulate you on a nice slow, jet-lag-recovery start to your trip (assuming you're arriving after a long overnight flight). But then I see you want to go to Cinque Terre on that day!

Resist the temptation to do everything. You really don't have that much time. 4 nights in Tuscany, 3 nights in Umbria are not a lot, just 3 full days in Tuscany, 2 full days in Umbria. I'd be inclined to pick just one, Tuscany or Umbria, and stay there for a week. Maybe rent a villa?

In southern Tuscany, I like Pienza or San Quirico d'Orcia as a base. They both are centrally located, easy to get in and out of, and have a selection of restaurants.

In Umbria I like Bevagna for the same reasons, though it's a smaller town with fewer restaurants. Or there's the Relais Il Canalicchio, a resort hotel. But is your budget for one couple per night or for all 6 of you per night?

Gubbio is a bit of an outlier on your itinerary. Best skip it unless you stay in Perugia -- which I agree is not so good a base for daytrips by car.

DAX

Mimar: Thanks for your tip on Il Canalicchio, it looks like a winner! The budget is per couple not for all 6 people. Gubbio is what I personally want to see since I didn't make it there the last time I was in Umbria.

My wife & I spent our honeymoon in Lerici & Portofino so we don't feel a strong need to drive to Cinque Terre but one of the other couples is super energetic plus they'll be arriving in Venice one week earlier. I just need to check on which town they can most easily drive to while the rest of us can just relax in Lucca.

DAX

Just learned that it's a bad idea to drive to Cinque Terre, so hopefully someone can tell us how to train to Levanto or Vernazza/Riomaggiore from Lucca.

zoecat

The train from Lucca to the Cinque Terre requires a couple of train changes, including one in La Spezia. It is pretty simple. I suggest a very early start in order to enjoy a complete day visitng the villages.

Check schedules here-

http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/homepage_en.html

The train station in Lucca is withing walking distance of the town center.

DAX

Thanks Zoe for the train website. I'll suggest to our friends to train to Cinque Terre from Venice before joining us in Lucca so they don't have to do a round trip train in one day.

Jean

What time of year is this trip? If summer, I'd want to go slower than this itinerary.

I love Gubbio, so I would hesitate to drop it, but I think something's gotta give. You have too many places in Umbria, too spread apart, to cover in the little time you'll be there. I wouldn't pick Perugia for your base because of the time it will take to get to the car and get in and out of the town. Bevagna or outside of Assisi would be better choices IMO.

Narni is interesting enough, but I'd pick Montefalco for sagrantino wine or Norcia for truffles, cheese and cured meats.

DAX

Thanks for your input, it's just what I was looking for.

It'll be in late October. Following your advice, I'll remove Narni and Spoletto, but I want to keep Todi & Gubbio even though they are far apart. It's been 15 years since I was in Umbria so I forget how long the drives were. We'll do Todi on the way to Rome the day before we fly home.
I like the appearance of Relais Il Canilicchio but I'm trying to learn more about the charm of staying in Bevagna. Is it very scenic? Any restaurant with great setting overlooking the valley/hill? It's quite a drive from Gubbio. The one place I'm least interested to revisit is Assisi because I spent enough time there. I see that Bevagna is close to Norcia which draws my interest in a foodie way.

Lexma90

Many towns/villages in Umbria are scenic. The relatively unusual thing about Bevagna is that it's relatively flat, and in the valley, whereas Assisi, Perugia, Spello, Montefalco are hilltowns.

We (like a number of other Fodorites) stayed in Spello, which DH and I found beautiful. It is a very up and down little town!

In Bevagna, we had a tasty lunch - but no scenic view - at Ottavius. Casual, mom-and-pop kind of place with great gnocchi sagrantino. In nearby Montefalco, known as the "balcony of Umbria," and indeed with lovely, scenic views, we had a great dinner (but no scenic view) at Coccorone. I would love to return here! Good stringozzi and very tasty grilled lamb (me) and beef in a sagratino sauce (DH). In Spello, we ate at Il Molino, which was also very good, but I preferred Coccorone. Il Molino had quite a few tourists; at Coccorone, it was mostly locals.

Jean

Bevagna is a popular base because its flatness makes it easier to come and go. If you were just going to hang around a town for a few days, there are towns with more beauty and charm than Bevagna. But if you're driving in and out every day in all directions, it's hard to beat Bevagna. There are also a few interesting things to see in the town: An opera house that feels like a miniature version of La Scala; beautiful mosaic floors from excavated Roman baths.

Having praised Bevagna, I can say for our last visit to Umbria we stayed in Spoleto and easily made day trips all over the region. Our hotel (San Luca) was at the bottom of the town with parking outside the front door, so we only had a few turns before we were on our way. A little over an hour to Gubbio. Less than an hour to Todi and Norcia. Half an hour to Montefalco and Bevagna. We're too busy exploring to spend much time at a hotel, so the Relais il Conalicchio, though lovely, wouldn't be our choice.

DAX

Thanks Lexma & Jean, I really appreciate your detailed postings. So it seems that Bevagna may not be as ideal for us since it has no particular draw beyond its easy access. We prefer to come home to a great place after our daytime explorations. I like to explore & take pictures during sunrise before we drive out of our base. I'd rather drive up & down to a attractive base that's close to the main route (like Spello) than the extra drive to reach Bevagna. We stayed at a hilltop castle near Perugia last time and didn't mind the drive up & down because we're right above the main route with spectacular views.

Any good restaurant dinner tip in Spello? Which hotel did you stay at Lexma? I tried looking up San Luca Hotel in Spoletto but no success, any web link Jean? I've never been to Spoletto so I don't know how it compares to Spello which I vaguely remember to resemble the stone alleys in Lacoste in Provence.

Jean

Hotel San Luca in Spoleto:

http://www.hotelsanluca.com/index_eng.php

Spello is teeny-tiny compared to Spoleto and too small and quiet for me. Other people love it for the same reasons.

The San Luca's website has great information on exploring Spoleto and a few towns in Umbria:

http://routes-italy-travel.hotelsanluca.com/

Note also the San Luca's sister hotel in Montefalco, the Villa Zuccari. It might be more what you're looking for.

http://www.villazuccari.com/index_eng.php

Dayle

DAX,

I stayed in Spello at Palazzo Bocci**** and absolutely loved it. The town is tiny, beautiful, untouristed, and easy to drive in/out. Easy parking for the hotel. Two dinners: one at La Cantina was just OK. The one at the hotel's restaurant (across the street) was excellent, Il Mulino.

Highly recommend! Buon viaggio

phillyboy

DAX,

La bastiglia, another great restaurant in Spello, with spectacular views from the terrace.

http://www.labastiglia.com/eng/home.html

jnjfraz

I have a large list of great restaurants/osterias/bars for Central Tuscany with a smattering of places north and south. CT to Rome. To large to post here but email and I'll send it to you. [email protected]

vinorossoidaho.com

jnjfraz

"Just learned that it's a bad idea to drive to Cinque Terre, so hopefully someone can tell us how to train to Levanto or Vernazza/Riomaggiore from Lucca."

I have to disagree on a couple of comments. Wandering around CT on your first day would get you in the groove and it is so beautiful. If you are just going in for the day, then drive to La Spezia, park and take the train in. Trains run every 1/2 hour and the drive from Lucca to La Spezia.

OR drive into Portovenere and take the boat.... Ask around to see if the ferry is running

We drive from Chianti just to have lunch at this place.

Il Bocche (under the old church). Amazing place with spectacular view & atmosphere. Pricey closed Monday and Tues Lunch

Lexma90

We also stayed at Palazzo Bocci; very nice indeed. We were there in early October. Rather than eating in the somewhat claustrophic breakfast room, it was still warm enough (just, for us tourists) for us to ask for trays and eat our breakfast out on their terrace.

La Bastiglia is in a beautiful location at the top of the town; we didn't eat there, as we prefer more local, less formal, Italian food (most of the time).

A place we found in Spello, also with fantastic views, was a "Bar Giardino," located above Palazzo Bocci on the main "street." It's a little bar (and restaurant, I think) with a huge outdoor area overlooking the valley. We had drinks there each night we were in Spello.

Spello is tiny, but we were only there two nights, so it worked just fine for us. A delightful town, and definitely untouristy. I went for a morning run up to the top of the town each day, passing children on their way to school and delivery trucks. The road above the town goes through olive groves for miles, and is relatively level.

Keep in mind that all these Umbrian towns are very close - we had dinner in Montefalco one night, and it was about a 15-minute drive from Spello; same for Bevagna.