Need help planning trip to Switzerland
Feb 20th, 2004, 08:04 AM
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Need help planning trip to Switzerland
I am planning to travel to Germany and Switzerland in the mid-July with my husband and our 16-years old son.
Never been to Switz before, and need some help planning our time there. We like history, museums, art, and great scenery.
We've been to Romantic Road 3 years ago, and this time I thought we see Mosel, Rhine towns and castles, Black Forest, possible some Bavarian Alps and get to Sw. We are active travelers, have no problem driving.
Is it too much for 15-16 days? What are the must-see places on the route I outlined?
I just started planning, and appreciate any suggestions.
Never been to Switz before, and need some help planning our time there. We like history, museums, art, and great scenery.
We've been to Romantic Road 3 years ago, and this time I thought we see Mosel, Rhine towns and castles, Black Forest, possible some Bavarian Alps and get to Sw. We are active travelers, have no problem driving.
Is it too much for 15-16 days? What are the must-see places on the route I outlined?
I just started planning, and appreciate any suggestions.
Feb 20th, 2004, 08:20 AM
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I would suggest flying into Frankfurt and flying out of, say, Zurich. You will probably pay a drop off charge for doing that but will save some time.
Must sees: In the Mosel valley is Eltz castle which is Rick Steve's favorite castle IN ALL OF EUROPE. I hadn't done my homework and drove by it without stopping.
http://www.castles.org/castles/Europ...y/germany2.htm
I would say a "must-do" is to take a boat ride down the Rhine. The section where this is done is between Frankfurt and the Mosel.
In Switzerland, it seems to me a must-see is the Matterhorn, which requires parking your car in Taesch and taking a railway up to Zermatt.
If you make it to the Bavarian Alps, then another must-see is Neuschwanstein castle. This is the number one tourist attraction in Germany, I believe.
Everyone told me the Black Forest was overrated and don't bother going. They were right. It isn't even a forest, really, more a tree plantation. But you pretty much have to drive through it on your way to Switzerland.
Must sees: In the Mosel valley is Eltz castle which is Rick Steve's favorite castle IN ALL OF EUROPE. I hadn't done my homework and drove by it without stopping.
http://www.castles.org/castles/Europ...y/germany2.htm
I would say a "must-do" is to take a boat ride down the Rhine. The section where this is done is between Frankfurt and the Mosel.
In Switzerland, it seems to me a must-see is the Matterhorn, which requires parking your car in Taesch and taking a railway up to Zermatt.
If you make it to the Bavarian Alps, then another must-see is Neuschwanstein castle. This is the number one tourist attraction in Germany, I believe.
Everyone told me the Black Forest was overrated and don't bother going. They were right. It isn't even a forest, really, more a tree plantation. But you pretty much have to drive through it on your way to Switzerland.
Feb 20th, 2004, 12:01 PM
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I wasn't going to answer this question - - I have a problem resisting such smart aleck answers as "Nobody here likes Switzerland, or at least I don't - - that's why you haven't gotten more replies".
After all, curbing my tongue is something I need to work on all the time.
BUT THEN! I read:
<<Everyone told me the Black Forest was overrated and don't bother going. They were right. It isn't even a forest, really, more a tree plantation.>>
Don't let this poppycock make you miss a wonderful part of Germany.
See, we all have pet likes and dislikes.
And yes, Burg Eltz is fabulous.
Best wishes,
Rex
After all, curbing my tongue is something I need to work on all the time.
BUT THEN! I read:
<<Everyone told me the Black Forest was overrated and don't bother going. They were right. It isn't even a forest, really, more a tree plantation.>>
Don't let this poppycock make you miss a wonderful part of Germany.
See, we all have pet likes and dislikes.
And yes, Burg Eltz is fabulous.
Best wishes,
Rex
Feb 20th, 2004, 12:48 PM
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Rex, why is this poppycock? The Blackforest doesn't appear to be anything ressembling an old-growth forest. It looks to be the same species of tree planted endlessly. I think, (would you not agree), that there are many Forests in Germany that are more scenic?
Feb 20th, 2004, 12:51 PM
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Unlike Rex I don't think you got very few answers so far b/c nobody likes Switzerland. There are a bunch of folks on this board who love Switzerland!
For me it was the problem that from the header I thought your trip would mainly cover Switzerland - but then I read that you will travel the Mosel and Rhine area as well the Black Forest and Bavarian Alps in Germany PLUS Switzerland. This is obviously too much for 15-16 days. So you would spend only three days in each location (average).
I have to agree with Robert that the Black Forest is somewhat disappointing. After visiting the Mosel/Rhine towns and castles you can skip the Black Forest - maybe go there on a trip later.
If you want to get more than a first impression I suggest you spend at least five nights in Switzerland. Concentrate on one region with stunning mountain scenery - the Bernese Alps south of Interlaken are probably your best choice. One day should be reserved for a day trip to Bern for sightseeing (cathedral, historical museum etc.) Another day maybe for Thun or Spiez(both with castle, church and beautiful lakeside promenades/views).
Hope this helps for now, feel free to ask more questions.
Ingo
For me it was the problem that from the header I thought your trip would mainly cover Switzerland - but then I read that you will travel the Mosel and Rhine area as well the Black Forest and Bavarian Alps in Germany PLUS Switzerland. This is obviously too much for 15-16 days. So you would spend only three days in each location (average).
I have to agree with Robert that the Black Forest is somewhat disappointing. After visiting the Mosel/Rhine towns and castles you can skip the Black Forest - maybe go there on a trip later.
If you want to get more than a first impression I suggest you spend at least five nights in Switzerland. Concentrate on one region with stunning mountain scenery - the Bernese Alps south of Interlaken are probably your best choice. One day should be reserved for a day trip to Bern for sightseeing (cathedral, historical museum etc.) Another day maybe for Thun or Spiez(both with castle, church and beautiful lakeside promenades/views).
Hope this helps for now, feel free to ask more questions.
Ingo
Feb 20th, 2004, 01:39 PM
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Oh, and I forgot toacknoledge your po Ingo - - I did say, of course, that my "answer" was smart aleck.
Of course, there re lots of Switzerland devotees here:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...up&start=0
I think I just haven't found the right parts. I liked Luzern enough to go back twice (and especially Weggis, even though it was a bad weather overnighter).
I wish I could find some part of it that seemed more affordable.
Of course, there re lots of Switzerland devotees here:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...up&start=0
I think I just haven't found the right parts. I liked Luzern enough to go back twice (and especially Weggis, even though it was a bad weather overnighter).
I wish I could find some part of it that seemed more affordable.
Feb 20th, 2004, 03:35 PM
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Well I just visited Suisse for the first time in the fall and I loved it! Zurich and Geneva have so many musuems you can't possibly see them all. The food is fantastic and the difference between German Suisse and French Suisse are very interesting.
In Zurich the 2 top things for me was the Kunsthaus museum and the restaurant Blind Cow. This restaurant is like no other, completely run by blind people you are immersed in a jet black room where you dine in the dark. It gives you a fantastic appreciation for how people without sight negotiate their daily lives. You must book in advance if you go here.
Geneva is breathtaking! On the beautiful lake, with Mont Blanc and the Alps. There are an abundance of vineyards in nearby Vevy (sp) and the castle Chateau Montreax is my favorite day trip. Drive thru the mountains or train to Interlaken or Zermatt. There really are so many museums in Geneva, you'll have your pick of exhibits. If it's warm grab a picnic and head to the shores of Lac Geneve where everyone else is, in the shadow of the Jet l'eau.
Enjoy!
In Zurich the 2 top things for me was the Kunsthaus museum and the restaurant Blind Cow. This restaurant is like no other, completely run by blind people you are immersed in a jet black room where you dine in the dark. It gives you a fantastic appreciation for how people without sight negotiate their daily lives. You must book in advance if you go here.
Geneva is breathtaking! On the beautiful lake, with Mont Blanc and the Alps. There are an abundance of vineyards in nearby Vevy (sp) and the castle Chateau Montreax is my favorite day trip. Drive thru the mountains or train to Interlaken or Zermatt. There really are so many museums in Geneva, you'll have your pick of exhibits. If it's warm grab a picnic and head to the shores of Lac Geneve where everyone else is, in the shadow of the Jet l'eau.
Enjoy!
Feb 20th, 2004, 04:14 PM
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For pure scenic impact, there is little that compares with the Lauterbrunnen Valley, which is the area bounded by Interlaken on the north and the Jungfrau on the south. First-time visitors get a glimpse of what's to come when they look south from Interlaken, though it gets much better as you get closer to the mountains. I suggest spending two to three days based either in Interlaken, Wengen or Murren and then hiking or wandering around and enjoying the vista. Murren is the most isolated, but the most spectacular. Wengen is close in and has better facilities. Interlaken is more conventional and for the less adventuresome. In addition to the mountains, you may find it quite pleasing to take a lake steamer either on the Thunersee or the Brienzersee. Those are the lakes surrounding Interlaken, which means "Between the lakes". If you find the lakes more interesting than the mountains, you might consider staying at Iseltwald, on the Brienzersee about 10 minutes east of Interlaken. The place to stay there is Chalet du Lac. Rustic rooms, decent restaurant, outstanding view of the harbor and the lake.
With all due respect to the Black Forest and the Romantic Road, this area, the Bernese Oberland, wins hands down. My apologies to those who disagree.
With all due respect to the Black Forest and the Romantic Road, this area, the Bernese Oberland, wins hands down. My apologies to those who disagree.
Feb 20th, 2004, 04:25 PM
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We made a similar trip last June but took trains throughout. We started in Zurich and then went to Lugano in the southern lake area. Lugano and Morcote were very different since there are palm trees and most everyone speaks Italian. I highly recommend Morcote as a side trip.
From there we went to Bern which was more interesting than I expected. That stop was to see where my husband's family is from but I'm glad we spent some time there.
Next we went to Lucerne and took the tour to Pilatus by tram/cog railway/boat.
Then we went to Mainz as a home base for the Rhine and Mosel. The train ride from Lucerne to Mainz was a long but comfortable trip. That might be too far to drive in one day.
We did not have any problem getting around and probably would have found having a car a to be a negative except on the Mosel. Scheduling the Mosel cruise and the tour of Burg Eltz in one day was a little difficult but doable.
My favorite spots were Lugano, Lucerne, and the Mosel.
From there we went to Bern which was more interesting than I expected. That stop was to see where my husband's family is from but I'm glad we spent some time there.
Next we went to Lucerne and took the tour to Pilatus by tram/cog railway/boat.
Then we went to Mainz as a home base for the Rhine and Mosel. The train ride from Lucerne to Mainz was a long but comfortable trip. That might be too far to drive in one day.
We did not have any problem getting around and probably would have found having a car a to be a negative except on the Mosel. Scheduling the Mosel cruise and the tour of Burg Eltz in one day was a little difficult but doable.
My favorite spots were Lugano, Lucerne, and the Mosel.
Feb 21st, 2004, 05:09 AM
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Just off the top of my head (prefaced by saying that the last time I skipped from place to place like this was 20 years ago) --
Think about landing in Frankfurt (departing from Zurich as someone's already mentioned), visiting the Mosel, then down to Bacharach on the Rhine, then Triberg in the Schwartzwald, then to Schaffhausen and Stein-am-Rhein or to Lindau on Bodensee, then to Lucerne or a pretty place on its lake, or to Ingo's suggested Lake Thun with daytrips into the mountains and into Bern. Even better would be if you could depart from Geneve, so you could spend time exploring its marvelous lake towns and the castle at Chillon. I'm rattling, but this thread seems to have stirred up a lively exchange. Have fun planning. J.
Think about landing in Frankfurt (departing from Zurich as someone's already mentioned), visiting the Mosel, then down to Bacharach on the Rhine, then Triberg in the Schwartzwald, then to Schaffhausen and Stein-am-Rhein or to Lindau on Bodensee, then to Lucerne or a pretty place on its lake, or to Ingo's suggested Lake Thun with daytrips into the mountains and into Bern. Even better would be if you could depart from Geneve, so you could spend time exploring its marvelous lake towns and the castle at Chillon. I'm rattling, but this thread seems to have stirred up a lively exchange. Have fun planning. J.
Feb 21st, 2004, 03:15 PM
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We loved Switzerland. Fun things to visit are the Chateau du Chillon and Ballenberg. Chateau Chillon is right on (or in) Lake Geneva (Lac Leman in France). Ballenberg is the Colonial Williamsburg or Upper Canada Village of Switzerland. They have moved historic buildings from all over Switzerland and put them into a village setting. You walk all over the place or you can take a horse wagon ride to the various sites. When you get to the end, you can take a bus back to your parking lot.
We toured a cheese factory in Gruyères and also went through the chateau there. In one room there were panels painted by Corot and several other artists of the period. My favorite rooms were Beautiful Lucy's Room, small, round and very simple, and the Knights' Room--a large rectangular chamber painted with marvelous scenes of war that were planned by Baud-Bovy who had many excellent portraits exhibited throughout the castle. The views are fabulous, especially the view of the castle on the hill as you drive into Gruyères.
In St. Maurice we parked beside the Rhone and walked up to the Grottes de Fées. You walk back into the cave (they give you each a flashlight) and way back in the cave is a lake with a waterfall. It's really fun, especially if you have a teenager with you. There's a scaffolding and you can walk under the waterfall. If there's another heat wave, the caves are cool.
If you like art, visit Martigny and go to the Foundation Pierre Gianadda. They have visiting exhibits that range from mediocre to wonderful. They also have a terrific sculpture collection outside in the garden. The exhibit the day we were there was in the "wonderful" category.
Another day we visited the Swiss Organ Museum in Roch. (We're musicians.) There was no one else there with us so the docent let my husband play several of the old organs. They also had a circus calliope and a working organ made of paper completed by ten and eleven-year-old school children.
There are hiking trails in the mountains and often ski lifts take you to the top and you can hike down which I think is great!
Enjoy your trip.
We toured a cheese factory in Gruyères and also went through the chateau there. In one room there were panels painted by Corot and several other artists of the period. My favorite rooms were Beautiful Lucy's Room, small, round and very simple, and the Knights' Room--a large rectangular chamber painted with marvelous scenes of war that were planned by Baud-Bovy who had many excellent portraits exhibited throughout the castle. The views are fabulous, especially the view of the castle on the hill as you drive into Gruyères.
In St. Maurice we parked beside the Rhone and walked up to the Grottes de Fées. You walk back into the cave (they give you each a flashlight) and way back in the cave is a lake with a waterfall. It's really fun, especially if you have a teenager with you. There's a scaffolding and you can walk under the waterfall. If there's another heat wave, the caves are cool.
If you like art, visit Martigny and go to the Foundation Pierre Gianadda. They have visiting exhibits that range from mediocre to wonderful. They also have a terrific sculpture collection outside in the garden. The exhibit the day we were there was in the "wonderful" category.
Another day we visited the Swiss Organ Museum in Roch. (We're musicians.) There was no one else there with us so the docent let my husband play several of the old organs. They also had a circus calliope and a working organ made of paper completed by ten and eleven-year-old school children.
There are hiking trails in the mountains and often ski lifts take you to the top and you can hike down which I think is great!
Enjoy your trip.
Feb 22nd, 2004, 04:34 PM
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Head to Murren, Lauterbrunnen, and Gimmelwald for breathtaking views. I stayed in Murren and loved it so much. Thee are no cars allowed in this town and it's so serene. There are many hiking, sking, and sledding trails in this area. Head up to Schilthorn and Jungfraujoch for the ultimate views of the area. The entire Berner Oberland region is so awesome and the folks are really nice. It's extremely expensive but worth every penny. You will not regret going to Murren. Have a good trip!
Feb 23rd, 2004, 07:35 AM
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Thank you so much for the respones and opinions. It'll take me some time to plan a detailed itinerary, but one thing I realized from all the responces is that 5 days will not be enough for Switz. Now I have to think if we want to get just a first glymps of the several regions, or stay in just one region and visit the rest of Switz some other time. The more I read this message board the more I realize how interesting and beautiful this country is and 5 days is definitely not enough.
Have another question to detraveler.
Can I get your detailed itinerary?
Have another question to detraveler.
Can I get your detailed itinerary?
Feb 23rd, 2004, 05:14 PM
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As you will see we travel faster than most but we manage to fit a lot in with some extra planning. I put in a couple of extra notes for you below.
I hope you enjoy your trip.
May 21 - Philadelphia to Munich -Arrives: 10:15 am - May 22
S-Bahn to Marienplatz
Hotel Kempinski
Bus to Scholss Nymphenburg for tour
(we were in Munich before but missed the summer residence and wanted the nonstop from Philadelphia otherwise we probably would have flown to Zurich directly for this trip)
May 23 - Munich to Innsbruck - stop in Innsbruck for 2 hours to walk through old town and climb the bell tower for the view of the Alps
Innsbruck to Zurich - panorama train departs 12:41 pm - arrives Zurich 4:27 pm
Marriott - (view of old town, river and lake Zurich is wonderful ask for the lake side of the hotel and a high floor)
Walk on shopping street Bahnhofstrasee and along river to lake - dinner on the Quai
May 24 - Zurich to Lugano- panorama train - 9:07 am - 12:03 pm
Hotel - Parco Paradiso - (great view from up on the hill - many suites with large balconies - the only downside is the train runs nearby and there is no airconditioning)
Explore Lugano
May 25 - Funicular to San Salvatore - hike to Morcote (wonderful hike but it is about 7 miles mostly downhill - you could also go by boat to Morcote. We hiked there, had lunch, and took the boat back.)
In Morcote, climb the 400 steps to Chiesa di Madonna del Sasso for a great view and visit to the old church.
May 26 - Lugano to Brig - Departs 8:39 am - Arrives 12:12 pm - Lunch in Brig - (the FART train is supposed to be very scenic. We were unlucky to hit a cloudy day and were not really impressed.)
Brig to Bern after lunch
Bern hotel - Hotel Bristol - (great location in the center of town - plain but very clean and nice)
May 27
Clock tower/town hall/rose gardens for gardens and view of city/ climb the church tower
May 28 ? Bern to Luzern - Departs: 8:49 am- Arrives 10:15 am
Hotel Des Balances - (get a river view room on the top floor - we had a large balcony with views of the river, chapel bridge, lake and mountains - great restaurant - have dinner there - best breakfasts of the trip)
Explore City
May 29 - Mount Pilatus - bus from town - hike to summits - lunch in the restaurant - cog railway down to boat dock and boat back to Luzerne.
May 30 - Luzern to Mainz - Departs 7:54 am - arrives 12:14 pm - store bags at Mainz station
Mainz to St. Goar-12:48 pm-arrives 1:31 pm
Tour Rheinfels Castle
3:15 - Takd KD German Rhine Line Cruise to Bacharach - arrives 4:25
Bacharach walking tour from Rick Steves book
5:30 train back to Mainz
Hilton Mainz - (not the best view of the Rhine but it was nice and the weekend rate was great at $125 Euros)
May 31 -8:20 am-train to Koblenz then Moselkern - arrives 10:02 am
Hike up to Burg Eltz - tour of castle
1:00 - KD German Rhine Line Cruise Moselkern to Cochem - arrives 2:30 pm
Explore Cochem
4:20 train back to Koblenz/Mainz arrives 5:58 pm
June 1 - 20 minute train ride to Frankfurt airport for trip home.
I hope you enjoy your trip.
May 21 - Philadelphia to Munich -Arrives: 10:15 am - May 22
S-Bahn to Marienplatz
Hotel Kempinski
Bus to Scholss Nymphenburg for tour
(we were in Munich before but missed the summer residence and wanted the nonstop from Philadelphia otherwise we probably would have flown to Zurich directly for this trip)
May 23 - Munich to Innsbruck - stop in Innsbruck for 2 hours to walk through old town and climb the bell tower for the view of the Alps
Innsbruck to Zurich - panorama train departs 12:41 pm - arrives Zurich 4:27 pm
Marriott - (view of old town, river and lake Zurich is wonderful ask for the lake side of the hotel and a high floor)
Walk on shopping street Bahnhofstrasee and along river to lake - dinner on the Quai
May 24 - Zurich to Lugano- panorama train - 9:07 am - 12:03 pm
Hotel - Parco Paradiso - (great view from up on the hill - many suites with large balconies - the only downside is the train runs nearby and there is no airconditioning)
Explore Lugano
May 25 - Funicular to San Salvatore - hike to Morcote (wonderful hike but it is about 7 miles mostly downhill - you could also go by boat to Morcote. We hiked there, had lunch, and took the boat back.)
In Morcote, climb the 400 steps to Chiesa di Madonna del Sasso for a great view and visit to the old church.
May 26 - Lugano to Brig - Departs 8:39 am - Arrives 12:12 pm - Lunch in Brig - (the FART train is supposed to be very scenic. We were unlucky to hit a cloudy day and were not really impressed.)
Brig to Bern after lunch
Bern hotel - Hotel Bristol - (great location in the center of town - plain but very clean and nice)
May 27
Clock tower/town hall/rose gardens for gardens and view of city/ climb the church tower
May 28 ? Bern to Luzern - Departs: 8:49 am- Arrives 10:15 am
Hotel Des Balances - (get a river view room on the top floor - we had a large balcony with views of the river, chapel bridge, lake and mountains - great restaurant - have dinner there - best breakfasts of the trip)
Explore City
May 29 - Mount Pilatus - bus from town - hike to summits - lunch in the restaurant - cog railway down to boat dock and boat back to Luzerne.
May 30 - Luzern to Mainz - Departs 7:54 am - arrives 12:14 pm - store bags at Mainz station
Mainz to St. Goar-12:48 pm-arrives 1:31 pm
Tour Rheinfels Castle
3:15 - Takd KD German Rhine Line Cruise to Bacharach - arrives 4:25
Bacharach walking tour from Rick Steves book
5:30 train back to Mainz
Hilton Mainz - (not the best view of the Rhine but it was nice and the weekend rate was great at $125 Euros)
May 31 -8:20 am-train to Koblenz then Moselkern - arrives 10:02 am
Hike up to Burg Eltz - tour of castle
1:00 - KD German Rhine Line Cruise Moselkern to Cochem - arrives 2:30 pm
Explore Cochem
4:20 train back to Koblenz/Mainz arrives 5:58 pm
June 1 - 20 minute train ride to Frankfurt airport for trip home.
Apr 4th, 2004, 01:12 PM
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We always fly into Basel/Mulhouse airport (you get different rates and routes depending on the code you plug in). From there you can visit the Black Forest, Alsace, and go into Switzerland. We stayed on top of the Titlis mountain where we were the only guests (plus hundreds of cows), went snow tubing (in July), and then downhill with some kind of scooter. P.S. The Bavarian Alps are quite a distance from Switzerland.
