Need help planning trip
 

Hello,

I'm planning my trip to Europe for Sep/Oct this year and I have no idea how to make sure if my goal is feasible. Ideally, I'd like to fly into Lisbon, travel to Madrid (maybe), Barcelona (for sure), Paris, Brussels and fly out of Amsterdam. That being said....is that feasible for 12 days? I figure 2-3 days per city (1 for Brussels). Really, I have no itinerary and the main cities I want to see are Barcelona and Amsterdam. Could this work? Am I doing too much?

"is that feasible for 12 days?" No!

Yes, you're doing too much.

Because of your screen name, I am assuming you will be flying from the USA to Europe. That's a good number of time zones to cross --- you will have to allow a day to catch up with your jet lag.

With your travel times (train? air?), and then getting to your hotels - you will lose at least a half day between Lisbon & Madrid, Madrid & Barcelona, Barcelona & Paris.

You should figure that two nights in a city equals one full day there. For you to even scratch the surface of any of these places you will need three or four days. And that is literally "scratching the surface" - not really getting to know the place much.

How about choosing two cities to see? Madrid and Barcelona? Fly into one and leave from the other. From Madrid you can take a day trip on the train to Segovia or head to Toledo.

Or maybe Paris and Amsterdam? Fly into one and depart from the other. Minimal travel time, and plenty to see and do in each place.

If this is your first time to Europe, you are not alone in trying to do it all. Slow down and enjoy a couple cities - instead of making your trip a stressful chase after trains or planes, and all the cities you visit just a blur in your memory when you return home.

Europe isn't going anywhere - you will come back!

You have a list of six cities. You say Madrid is a maybe, so that leaves five cities. Then you say you want to have 2-3 days per city, except for only 1 day in Brussels. So, you have 11 days to divide between four cities. That's three cities with two days each and one with three days.

But, wait...

Are you planning to instantaneously teleport between cities?

Getting from one city to another will take at least half a day. Sure, places like Brussels and Amsterdam aren't very far apart, but it will still take time. First you have to check out of one hotel, then you have to get to the bus/train station or airport. On arriving in the other city you have to get from the bus/train station or airport to the new hotel. Then you have to check in and unpack. Maybe it will be faster if you drive.

So you really have maybe one and a half day in each city.

If the main cities you want to see are Barcelona and Amsterdam, as you say at the end, then do those two cities. Five days in each, including maybe a daytrip to Brussels from Amsterdam.

Ha. It made sense in my head but once I re-read my post I understand what you are saying. I just love the idea of seeing as much as I can, but yes, I do not want to feel rushed. I guess I'll just explore Barcelona with the end goal of ending up in Amsterdam. Whatever happens between there, happens.

You sound like a first time visitor. Were I you, I'd head for Paris and Amsterdam, the two most glorious cities in Europe. And stop in Bruges between the two. If I were to add another city, it would be London. Sorry, Barcelona just doesn't cut it for me.

Or, if you really want Barcelona, then add Madrid and/or Seville or Lisbon. I liked Lisbon more than Barcelona.
Or Amsterdam with Paris, maybe add London. Skip Brussels.

Support your decision about Barcelona, a fabulous city. Have had several great trips here the past few years with fantastic food, theaters, concerts, nightlife, museums etc. etc. I could give you loads of tips based on your interests.

Had one of the best meals of my life in Xemei at the foot of Montjuic (Jewish mountain) a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lvcjtoh0tU

Great views of both the city and the sea from the castle at the top of Montjuic. Also great museums, theaters and 1992 Olympic sports arenas. Take the Teleferic up here: http://www.telefericdemontjuic.cat/en/

If you want to get from Barcelona to Amsterdam and you don't plan how to do that you will spend a lot more money than you need to. You can do it by train, but you will have to change trains, it will take quite a lot of time, and the tickets will be more expensive the later you buy them. It will be easier to fly, and again the tickets will be more expensive the later you buy.

See http://seat61.com/international-trai...pain-Amsterdam for how to do it by train.

Don't want to be rude, but have you looked at a map?

You can;t just leave Barcelona to Amsterdam to chance. The shortest train trip is almost 12 hours - many are 17 or 18 - so you will probably want to fly between them. Look for low cost airlines and buy tickets as soon as you have your travel dates fixed to get the best fare. Also look very carefully at:

Luggage requirements - usually much stricter than major airlines and expensive if you check a lot of stuff

Check in requirements (many are super strict and if you are 1 minute late checking in they give your ticket to someone else and you're out of luck - since there is often only 1 flight per day.

I think it very possible your cavalier attitude may end up costing you a lot of time, money and frustration.

Yes, be aware that the stringent and very minimal luggage allowance and added fees for just about everything (seat assignment, online ticketing, etc etc.) on the low-cost airlines can often make your trip more expensive than flying on a mainstream airline.

>>I guess I'll just explore Barcelona with the end goal of ending up in Amsterdam. Whatever happens between there, happens.<<

OMG -- sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Heed everyone's advice. Pick 2 or 3 cities and plan ALL your inter-city travel as early as possible. If you wait til the last minute you will pay an enormous amount for either trains or flights (or find no seats available on either)

I think Barcelona and Amsterdam makes for a great holiday, book flights.

If you wait til the last minute you will pay an enormous amount for either trains or flights (or find no seats available on either)>

Well I do not know about planes but trains with no seats - have you really encountered this janis - first class for one thing always always IME of decades of incessant European rail travel has seats - never seen one that did not - would like to know what you base that IMO baseless comment on?

The reason to book trains far in advance is to get a discounted ticket not to guarantee space on trains - there are so so many - hard to believe they would all be sold out.

>>first class for one thing always always IME of decades of incessant European rail travel has seats -<<

Sure -- but a walk-up first class ticket would cost a fortune. So read it in context and not pick on every little word - OK. The important bit was >> If you wait til the last minute you will pay an <B><u>enormous</B></u> amount for either trains or flights<<

Well perhaps that nifty old Eurailpass - like a Eurail Select Pass, automatically in first class if over 26; 2nd class if under 26 for a cheaper price; which can be used on a walk-up basis in most European countries would be good then - if person wanted flexibility, right janis, in like of ENORMOUS walk-up prices - just one or two train trips could make the pass pay off with those ENORMOUS walk up fees.

<<es, be aware that the stringent and very minimal luggage allowance and added fees for just about everything (seat assignment, online ticketing, etc etc.) on the low-cost airlines can often make your trip more expensive than flying on a mainstream airline.>>

This just isn't true. I fly Easyjet in Europe and the luggage allowance is perfectly normal, in fact, it is generous for carryon. Yes, there are added fees for a few things, like checking luggage and different ticket classes, as well as using a credit card, but even when you add them, the cost is still usually much lower than regular airlines. Their checked luggage fee isn't very much at all.

It depends. You need to check Easyjet's total price against the competition. I used not to bother, until TAP came in quite a bit cheaper one trip.

Before opting for a Railpass read this: http://seat61.com/Railpass-and-Eurai...0pay-as-you-go

Especially read the section on France, which you would be crossing between Barcelona and Amsterdam. There are quotas for Railpass holders, plus you need a reservation.

"Not only must passholders pay a fee to make a compulsory reservation on these trains (see prices here), the number of passholder places is controlled by a quota. This quota is usually very small, and often sells out. At busy periods I have known people stranded, told at the ticket office that there were no passholder places on any train for several days. Unless of course they wanted to buy a regular ticket (at the expensive on-the-day full-flex price) in which case there were plenty of seats available."

What thursdaysd says is a problem only in France and only on a few main lines and now they have a special surcharge for a priority pass holder option but yes that is a problem on the two north-south TGV lines - Bordeaux-Paris and Nice-Paris - not a problem much IME on any other line and on normal non-TGV trains you can often just hop on - Corail TEOZ trains demand a 3-euroseat reservation fee or so and it is always available IME.

But that problem thursdaysd talks about IME only applies to those few but popular French TGV lines. Thalys trains are an exception not that you can't book them with a pass but the surcharge is obscenely high - about $30-40 - some regular tickets can be cheaper or as cheap as that (but only if you book months in advance.)

Claudia: Welcome to Fodors. Typically we don't solicit private e-mails for 'personal advice'. If you have info to provide it is usually best to post it in the thread - so others can use the info, sure, but also so there can be a bit of 'vetting'.

You may have some lovely itineraries -- or not.

If you wait til the last minute you will pay an enormous amount for either trains or flights<<>

Trains no - planes I don't know but there are several types of trains - only long-distance high-speed trains generally have an airline-type pricing structure - the vast majority of trains are regional or local trains with a pretty much flat-fare structure for ticketing - I could take trains from one end of Italy to the other on a walk-up basis and pay no more than if I had booked in advance.

So just because you have not booked train tickets weeks in advance it is just not true that you will have to pay enormous last minute fares - just applies to a relatively few trains.

@PQ - the

Aargh - hit the wrong key...

@PQ - the OP is not going to Italy. The OP is not taking regional trains. The OP is planning to travel from Barcelona to Amsterdam. S/he WILL pay a high price for not booking in advance.

Do pay attention to the whole thread before reciting your usual mantra. (Do you have it saved so you just copy it?)

Thursdays - the statement about walk up fares being enormous was given in general and lots of folks read these things thinking well that must be true of trains all over Europe and it is not - not on the vast majority of them - ony seeking to clarify that - if the OP wanted to go direct Barcelona to Amsterdam on a walk-up basis it may cost more than a France-Benelux Railpass - granted - but it was a sweeping statement that others may think applies to trains in general and it does not.

Cheers!

>>Thursdays - the statement about walk up fares being enormous was given in general<<

No -- it wasn't. That post (and most useful posts) are in response to the <u>OP</u> . . . not some generic 'oh, walk up fares don't have to cost a lot'. Context is <i>everything . . .

Conctext is everything and most folks read out of context - just to make sure they did not extrapolate your words to a different meaning - and I wanted to take the suburban train to the French border and a regional train to Perpignan and hop the overnight train to Paris walk up fares are not astounding on those fairly flat-fare trains - though you can get a nice discount full-fare is not enormous IE on those overnight trains and the OP does not have to pay for a night in a hotel.

Once in Paris taking the TGV to Bruges - the highlight of Belgium over Brussels for most - again is a fairly flat fare structure with walk up tickets not nearly what one would call astounding - and then IC trains Brugges via Antwerp to Amsterdam again a flat fare -

so only on certain trains on that route is what you say is true - one could do that on a walk up basis without necessarily paying those astounding fares, which would apply to TGV and Thalys trains only.

Oof. I didn't mean to sound so naive! I was just googling and trying my best to see what I want. I was thinking of booking a flight between Barcelona and Amsterdam since it isn't too expensive or that long of a flight. I don't mean to sound cavalier, I'm just trying to backpack my way through a bunch of different locales.

I'm rethinking all of it.

Wih 12 days you could easily take trains and the overnight trains if into that and say do 3 days in each place - Barcelona - Paris - and Amsterdam with a travel day in between - flying is quick but from the train you will also see the Europe in between the big cities and see something more than tarmacs and airports.

But if your goal is just to go straight away between Barcelona and Amsterdam then fly - but Paris and Bruges could be nice stop en route.

Thanks!