need help planning Northern Italy Autumn Trip
Jun 14th, 2011, 10:29 AM
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need help planning Northern Italy Autumn Trip
Hi
There are 6 of us ( 3 couples who want to travel to Northern Italy) in mid October and need any help you can share with the itinerary. We want to spend 9-10 days -12 days max (with plan on 2 days for travel, leaving us 9-10 days of adventure)
Basically we would like to see the Lakes region ( LAKE Como etc) everyone seems to comment on seeing the dolomites, so that sounds good. ... and also the areas of Verona, for sure because one couple's grand parents were born there) maybe Varenna, maybe Bologna...Maybe Venice...we are pretty open to other ideas or places? We are in our fifties, all pretty fit and willing to walk, etc. We love local walking tours that highlight an area. also love guided museum tours, learning about a place. We appreciate local restaurants mostly and also love local farmers/ other markets.
what we like to typically do is rent a villa or apt as our home base and then take all day trips to the other towns/ villages/ sites and return in the eves. We are not sure if that is doable in this region? We are also open to spending maybe 3-4 days in each area as needed if that is more appropriate and we can find good accommodations?
We are open to ideas and basically don't mind renting a car and driving, but would also like to include train or boat trips too on the excursions. We want to experience the local culture, history, important sites etc. We tend to like less touristy venues and would appreciate your ideas.
I am a little concerned about mid October weather/ seasonal issues? is the lakes region open/ available then. We may be able to leave earlier if that is the case?
I am wondering of anyone has recommendations on exactly where to go, for how long at each place, what not to miss and anyone with any referrals for villa or apt rentals?
many thanks...
Ciao
Marti
There are 6 of us ( 3 couples who want to travel to Northern Italy) in mid October and need any help you can share with the itinerary. We want to spend 9-10 days -12 days max (with plan on 2 days for travel, leaving us 9-10 days of adventure)
Basically we would like to see the Lakes region ( LAKE Como etc) everyone seems to comment on seeing the dolomites, so that sounds good. ... and also the areas of Verona, for sure because one couple's grand parents were born there) maybe Varenna, maybe Bologna...Maybe Venice...we are pretty open to other ideas or places? We are in our fifties, all pretty fit and willing to walk, etc. We love local walking tours that highlight an area. also love guided museum tours, learning about a place. We appreciate local restaurants mostly and also love local farmers/ other markets.
what we like to typically do is rent a villa or apt as our home base and then take all day trips to the other towns/ villages/ sites and return in the eves. We are not sure if that is doable in this region? We are also open to spending maybe 3-4 days in each area as needed if that is more appropriate and we can find good accommodations?
We are open to ideas and basically don't mind renting a car and driving, but would also like to include train or boat trips too on the excursions. We want to experience the local culture, history, important sites etc. We tend to like less touristy venues and would appreciate your ideas.
I am a little concerned about mid October weather/ seasonal issues? is the lakes region open/ available then. We may be able to leave earlier if that is the case?
I am wondering of anyone has recommendations on exactly where to go, for how long at each place, what not to miss and anyone with any referrals for villa or apt rentals?
many thanks...
Ciao
Marti
Jun 14th, 2011, 11:08 AM
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In that time you should plan on 3 destinations and open jaw flights---into Milan and home from Venice or vice versa:
Here is what I suggest:
Arrive MXP---to Bellagio via private driver---3 nites
Driver to City of Como---get van---to Dolomomites---3 nites
Drive to Venice via Verona---last 4 nites
Fly home for Venice
We did 3 weeks in these same venues in 2009---here is the report and pics.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-gold-trip.cfm
Here is what I suggest:
Arrive MXP---to Bellagio via private driver---3 nites
Driver to City of Como---get van---to Dolomomites---3 nites
Drive to Venice via Verona---last 4 nites
Fly home for Venice
We did 3 weeks in these same venues in 2009---here is the report and pics.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-gold-trip.cfm
Jun 14th, 2011, 11:18 AM
#3
Some hotels and restaurants in mid-Lake Como towns will begin closing on/about Oct. 16th. Once the Grand Hotel Serbelloni in Bellagio decides to close for the season, many others in Varenna and Bellagio follow suit, but there are year-round residents so no ghost towns.
No one can predict the weather in mid-October, but we've been lucky on multiple visits to Lake Como in that month. We've had only a little rain, mild day temps and cool-to-cold night temps. You're at the foot of the Dolomites, so if the wind is coming from that direction it will be cooler/colder.
In Bellagio, look at these apartments:
www.residencelalimonera.com
and the ferry timetable:
www.navlaghi.it/eng/c_orari.asp
If you decide to include Venice, you should book your lodging ASAP. I'd suggest flying into Venice and departing from a different airport, say Milan, to avoid back-tracking.
What kind of car will you rent that can hold 6 adults and accompanying luggage??
No one can predict the weather in mid-October, but we've been lucky on multiple visits to Lake Como in that month. We've had only a little rain, mild day temps and cool-to-cold night temps. You're at the foot of the Dolomites, so if the wind is coming from that direction it will be cooler/colder.
In Bellagio, look at these apartments:
www.residencelalimonera.com
and the ferry timetable:
www.navlaghi.it/eng/c_orari.asp
If you decide to include Venice, you should book your lodging ASAP. I'd suggest flying into Venice and departing from a different airport, say Milan, to avoid back-tracking.
What kind of car will you rent that can hold 6 adults and accompanying luggage??
Jun 14th, 2011, 05:57 PM
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wow, quick and great responses...thank you very much everyone! ok I will look to see if we can move trip up to Oct 4 vs mid month. good point about the season/hotels etc closing and also about dolomites/ weather and driving. Will check out the apartments and ferry schedule. good point too about the car rental. I will do some more research with your advice. I hope to reconnect when I know more... thanks so much!
Jun 15th, 2011, 08:03 AM
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Here's another option. Fly in and out of Milan and do a loop from Milan to Como, then to Verona. It's a beautiful city, and not at all touristy outside the main attractions. I think the opera season in the amphitheater is over by Oct though.
From there, drive south to Modena (where you should buy some balsamic vinegar and visit the gorgeous marketplace if you arrive before 2PM.) Then head to Parma (where I lived for 8 months). It's a much nicer town than Bologna (I lived there first) and has better food too. October is Verdi Festival month and there are free concerts and other music events all around the city. If you're there over a weekend, you'll have far to many to choose from. You can find out the schedule online. The Barilla Center also runs weekend tasting events in their kitchens featuring local foods; outstanding and free. There's a lovely hotel right next to the Barilla Center, Grand Hotel De La Ville. (5 stars) Hire bikes and tour the city like the locals, eat pizza at Don Alfonso's on via Emilia, or have dinner at Rigaletto just off Garibaldi square (opens after 8), hang with the locals for wine along via Farini at night. Be sure to visit the Baptistry (1125) and San Giovanni Evangelista and of course the cathedral. The latter was frescoed by Correggio, the town's most famous artist and his dome in the cathedral is like nothing you'll ever see elsewhere. Be sure to visit the National Gallery in the Piolotta to see more of Parma's Renaissance art. And don't miss the puppet museum (near the local TI). It's fantastic.
This is NOT a tourist town and most people won't speak English, but both the city and province tourist info centers have English speakers and wonderful information. Drive to some of the castle towns in the province: Sorogna (my favorite), Fontanellato, Colorno, and Torrichelli (great restaurant there.) There should be harvest festivals in the area around that time too...porcini, proscuitto, chestnuts, etc. Info would be at the province TI. Eat in tiny trattorias and drink the Sangiovese and the sparkling red (a local favorite). Head back to Milan.
Venice is my favorite city in the world, and if you haven't seen it, go, but for "real" Italy, try my suggestion.
From there, drive south to Modena (where you should buy some balsamic vinegar and visit the gorgeous marketplace if you arrive before 2PM.) Then head to Parma (where I lived for 8 months). It's a much nicer town than Bologna (I lived there first) and has better food too. October is Verdi Festival month and there are free concerts and other music events all around the city. If you're there over a weekend, you'll have far to many to choose from. You can find out the schedule online. The Barilla Center also runs weekend tasting events in their kitchens featuring local foods; outstanding and free. There's a lovely hotel right next to the Barilla Center, Grand Hotel De La Ville. (5 stars) Hire bikes and tour the city like the locals, eat pizza at Don Alfonso's on via Emilia, or have dinner at Rigaletto just off Garibaldi square (opens after 8), hang with the locals for wine along via Farini at night. Be sure to visit the Baptistry (1125) and San Giovanni Evangelista and of course the cathedral. The latter was frescoed by Correggio, the town's most famous artist and his dome in the cathedral is like nothing you'll ever see elsewhere. Be sure to visit the National Gallery in the Piolotta to see more of Parma's Renaissance art. And don't miss the puppet museum (near the local TI). It's fantastic.
This is NOT a tourist town and most people won't speak English, but both the city and province tourist info centers have English speakers and wonderful information. Drive to some of the castle towns in the province: Sorogna (my favorite), Fontanellato, Colorno, and Torrichelli (great restaurant there.) There should be harvest festivals in the area around that time too...porcini, proscuitto, chestnuts, etc. Info would be at the province TI. Eat in tiny trattorias and drink the Sangiovese and the sparkling red (a local favorite). Head back to Milan.
Venice is my favorite city in the world, and if you haven't seen it, go, but for "real" Italy, try my suggestion.
Jun 15th, 2011, 09:54 AM
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thank you sooo much, your suggestions are fabulous and I will absolutely try to implement some of them. Thank you ALL for taking the time with these amazing and specific ideas.
oh and two in the group speak a bit of Italian so the local town Italian immersion sounds fine to us.
ok if you can clarify a few of your suggestions...please
so do you recommend we skip Venice this time? is there already enough to see and do with what you have said?
also if we do Milan/ Como to Verona to Modena to Parma and the towns you mention around there and then loop back to Milan...re distances: do you recommend we stay a couple of nights in each place like 1st night Milan, 2 & 3 Como, 4& 5 Verona, 6 Modena, 7& 8 Parma and that vicinity 9 back to Milan and 10 home? does that seem right or can we get a more central villa and and use that as our base and travel to a lot of the places from there?
thanks so much for the hotel recommendation too.
I would like to book this all on our own if possible so if you have other places to stay in those towns to recommend, please share.
any thing else?
much appreciated
Marti
oh and two in the group speak a bit of Italian so the local town Italian immersion sounds fine to us.
ok if you can clarify a few of your suggestions...please
so do you recommend we skip Venice this time? is there already enough to see and do with what you have said?
also if we do Milan/ Como to Verona to Modena to Parma and the towns you mention around there and then loop back to Milan...re distances: do you recommend we stay a couple of nights in each place like 1st night Milan, 2 & 3 Como, 4& 5 Verona, 6 Modena, 7& 8 Parma and that vicinity 9 back to Milan and 10 home? does that seem right or can we get a more central villa and and use that as our base and travel to a lot of the places from there?
thanks so much for the hotel recommendation too.
I would like to book this all on our own if possible so if you have other places to stay in those towns to recommend, please share.
any thing else?
much appreciated
Marti
Jun 15th, 2011, 01:07 PM
#10
nrpetralia provides lots of helpful info. My only problems with your revised itinerary (and I admit these may be only personal preferences) are moving/changing hotels so many times in a relatively short trip and needing to navigate/drive into multiple cities, making sure to avoid violating no-traffic zones, looking/paying for parking for a larger (6-passenger) vehicle. Festivals are fun but will make parking a little more challenging unless you're staying at a hotel in the town.
At a minimum, I wouldn't spend the first night in Milan. I'd just get to Lake Como after landing and eliminate at least one hotel change. Malpensa to Varenna, for example, would be about 2 hours' driving. Parma to Malpensa is also about 2 hours, and hopefully you could drive to the airport the morning of your departure rather than having to spend the last night there.
You know your traveling companions best, but I've found moving more than 4 people often involves an unforeseen slowness/inertia which in theory is not a bad thing when you're trying to enjoy a place but can be maddening if you're trying to see a lot in a small amount of time. I would make sure everyone agrees to the pace you're contempating.
At a minimum, I wouldn't spend the first night in Milan. I'd just get to Lake Como after landing and eliminate at least one hotel change. Malpensa to Varenna, for example, would be about 2 hours' driving. Parma to Malpensa is also about 2 hours, and hopefully you could drive to the airport the morning of your departure rather than having to spend the last night there.
You know your traveling companions best, but I've found moving more than 4 people often involves an unforeseen slowness/inertia which in theory is not a bad thing when you're trying to enjoy a place but can be maddening if you're trying to see a lot in a small amount of time. I would make sure everyone agrees to the pace you're contempating.
Jun 15th, 2011, 02:55 PM
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I'd recommend you stay in Como area, Verona and Parma. Modena (which has much less to do) is on the way--about 40 minutes from Parma. All the other towns are less than an hour from Parma and you can do several of the castle towns in a day. The roads are lightly traveled. Parma has traffic, but it's not like Milan or Rome. Once you're off the few major streets it's very quiet. Parking in Parma is pretty easy either at your hotel, or in public lots (there's one at the Barilla center). During the day, check the signs in the residential areas for the time limits...no overnight in Oct on the residential streets. Festival parking is in a field. Use a GPS or Google map and you'll be fine.
If your friends know a bit of Italian you'll be fine. The locals will appreciate your efforts. People in this area speak a few words, and in many of the restaurants and hotels the staff is multi-lingual, and pointing and funny gestures gets you a long way. Staying in a small city and exploring the territory will give you a wonderful feel for La Vita Italiano.
We'll be in Italy in September...would have loved to meet you there.
If your friends know a bit of Italian you'll be fine. The locals will appreciate your efforts. People in this area speak a few words, and in many of the restaurants and hotels the staff is multi-lingual, and pointing and funny gestures gets you a long way. Staying in a small city and exploring the territory will give you a wonderful feel for La Vita Italiano.
We'll be in Italy in September...would have loved to meet you there.
Jun 15th, 2011, 04:29 PM
#12
Hi Marti,
We've been to the Dolomites a couple of times in mid to late October. Beautiful time to be there in my opinion. What we've experienced was daytime temps in the mid 60's to low 70's and pretty clear weather.
While most are closed, this cable car (Mont Seuc) in Ortisei, Val Gardena, is open until the end of October. It goes from Ortisei up the the beautiful Seiser Alm/Alpe di Siusi. Teriffic place for walks (on paved paths) with a quintessential Dolomite backdrop.
www.alpedisiusi-seiseralm.com/index.html
Ortisei (Val Gardena) holds a day long, town wide market every second Monday of October. Vendors, crafts, clothes, music, beer/wine tents, food, etc., etc. We went in 2003.
www.val-gardena.net/ortisei_en.htm
http://www.val-gardena.com/?artid=13...g=eng&pagid=43
www.worldisround.com/articles/351565/index.html
Paul
We've been to the Dolomites a couple of times in mid to late October. Beautiful time to be there in my opinion. What we've experienced was daytime temps in the mid 60's to low 70's and pretty clear weather.
While most are closed, this cable car (Mont Seuc) in Ortisei, Val Gardena, is open until the end of October. It goes from Ortisei up the the beautiful Seiser Alm/Alpe di Siusi. Teriffic place for walks (on paved paths) with a quintessential Dolomite backdrop.
www.alpedisiusi-seiseralm.com/index.html
Ortisei (Val Gardena) holds a day long, town wide market every second Monday of October. Vendors, crafts, clothes, music, beer/wine tents, food, etc., etc. We went in 2003.
www.val-gardena.net/ortisei_en.htm
http://www.val-gardena.com/?artid=13...g=eng&pagid=43
www.worldisround.com/articles/351565/index.html
Paul
Jun 15th, 2011, 05:08 PM
#13
Decide on what you hope to see/do around Lake Como. Many people choose to stay in the mid-lake area (Varenna, Bellagio, Menaggio, Cadenabbia) as opposed to the town of Como because of the proximity to the sights they want to see.
Jun 16th, 2011, 12:44 AM
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thank you all of these suggestions, they are terrific.
I think we revised the itinerary a bit because the group really wants to see Venice too. I totally agree that we should not try to pack so much in, and not change hotels/ apts so much either.
Therefore can you PLEASE help me revise the new itinerary with the challenging wish list of arriving in Milan and going directly to Lake Como area (perhaps stay Varenna, Bellagio, Menaggio?)and then heading to Verona, Parma and Venice (yikes).
Ideally we would like to stay in one area for 5 days and do day trips from there but I am not sure of driving distances and times or if we should even take the train? is it advisable to have the car for only part of the trip and take the train too? What areas do you advise the train for easier travel? I need your help with that.
The big question is...Is it possible/or advisable to stay in either Varenna/Bellagio or the Verona/or Parma area and use it as a home base for 5 days, primarily to avoid so much changing around? Verona is a must for at least day trips, how far is it from Parma if we should stay there?
It would be much easier to have just 3 stays (Como or mid lake area, another stay like (Verona or Parma, and then Venice-home to Boston.
therefore, given what I have shared...what is the best area to make the longer stay (for convenience, day trips, seeing a lot without feeling so crazed)? is it the lake area or the Verona Parma area?
also in the mid lakes area, is there a preferred place (Varenna, Menaggio, Cadenabbia, Bellagio)...perhaps a place that gives an overview of the region, (beauty, good sightseeing, charm).
Do any of you have recommendations of where to stay in these amazing places?
I appreciate any further help...
nr petralia...have a great trip yourself!
Grazie, Marti
I think we revised the itinerary a bit because the group really wants to see Venice too. I totally agree that we should not try to pack so much in, and not change hotels/ apts so much either.
Therefore can you PLEASE help me revise the new itinerary with the challenging wish list of arriving in Milan and going directly to Lake Como area (perhaps stay Varenna, Bellagio, Menaggio?)and then heading to Verona, Parma and Venice (yikes).
Ideally we would like to stay in one area for 5 days and do day trips from there but I am not sure of driving distances and times or if we should even take the train? is it advisable to have the car for only part of the trip and take the train too? What areas do you advise the train for easier travel? I need your help with that.
The big question is...Is it possible/or advisable to stay in either Varenna/Bellagio or the Verona/or Parma area and use it as a home base for 5 days, primarily to avoid so much changing around? Verona is a must for at least day trips, how far is it from Parma if we should stay there?
It would be much easier to have just 3 stays (Como or mid lake area, another stay like (Verona or Parma, and then Venice-home to Boston.
therefore, given what I have shared...what is the best area to make the longer stay (for convenience, day trips, seeing a lot without feeling so crazed)? is it the lake area or the Verona Parma area?
also in the mid lakes area, is there a preferred place (Varenna, Menaggio, Cadenabbia, Bellagio)...perhaps a place that gives an overview of the region, (beauty, good sightseeing, charm).
Do any of you have recommendations of where to stay in these amazing places?
I appreciate any further help...
nr petralia...have a great trip yourself!
Grazie, Marti
Jun 16th, 2011, 01:18 AM
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PS Jean I am checking into www.residencelalimonera.com in Bellagio, thanks!
anyone know where to stay in Venice, comfy, clean, convenient, no 5 star but a really nice place? thanks. I gotta book it asap...
how about Verona/ Parma, any suggestions for accommodations in either of those?
Grazie
anyone know where to stay in Venice, comfy, clean, convenient, no 5 star but a really nice place? thanks. I gotta book it asap...
how about Verona/ Parma, any suggestions for accommodations in either of those?
Grazie
Jun 16th, 2011, 02:47 AM
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If you are traveling mid to late October, you must incorporate the Piedmont into your itinerary. It is truffle season then and the towns will be having truffles festivals. This is the birthplace of the slow food movement and there is no better time to go then October.
Jun 16th, 2011, 03:12 AM
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Grazie, yes that is the birth place of my grandmother's family and we were delighted to go there several years ago. with this trip, we are trying to go to some new places and especially because one of the group member's family is from Verona. How I do hope to go back to Piedmont one day again...the truffles are indeed amazing!
Jun 16th, 2011, 08:33 AM
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In Parma we stayed at the Hotel Palazzo Dalla Rosa Prati and loved it. Our room even had a little kitchenette and looked right onto the Duomo. If you are staying in Parma and have a car, I highly recommend dinner at Trattoria Due Platani just outside of town.
