twint31

My husband and I are planning a trip to southern Germany (and possibly throw in a taste of Austria or Switzerland, if possible) Oct 4-18. Any suggestions on itineraries? Is it best (and more cost efficient) to fly in/out of Munich, or is there a better way? Fares from St Louis are around $810..time to buy or wait for a better fare?

tcreath

We just got back from a trip to Southern Germany last month that included Austria and Switzerland, and a little bit of Czech. We too came from St. Louis. The airfare from St. Louis to Munich was similar to what you stated, but we found a great deal to Nuremberg for under $600 on Expedia so we decided it was worth the cost savings to fly there and pick up a car to head south. You may want to check out Nuremburg and some of the other surrounding towns if you are looking to save some money.

We spent the majority of our time in Schonau am Konigssee in a vacation apartment. Schonau very close to Berchtesgaden, in Berchtesgadenland, about 20 miles from Salzburg, Austria. I highly recommend it. The area is simply breathtaking. In Schonau you can take a boat tour on the Konigssee (Kings Lake) to St. Bartholomew Church or take the ski lifts up Mt. Jenner. Berchtesgaden has some great restaurants and a quaint downtown area. From the area we took daytrips to Hallstatt, the Wachau Valley and Melk (Austria), and Cesky Krumlov, Czech Republic. For more information on the Berchtesgaden area, check out:

http://www.berchtesgadener-land.info...mp;o_lang_id=2

We also spent some time in the Fussen area, home to King Ludwig II's castles. The area is also gorgeous, and there is quite a bit to do.

If you want to see more on the region, you can feel free to check out my pictures. Just click on each one for a description. The pictures from the Berchtesgaden region are scattered throughout but are mostly towards the middle/bottom of the page.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePh...p;sort_order=0

Good luck and happy planning!
Tracy

tracys2cents

To maximise your time, fly INTO one city and OUT OF another. For instance, arriving in Munich but departing for the USA from Zurich or Vienna might cost you $75 more, but you save the expense of circling back to Munich for your departing flight.

bettyk

tracy's plan won't work if you're driving and have to drop off a rental car in a different country from the one you rented it in because of the fees charged by the rental company.

Intrepid1

OK..here's ONE possibility.

Fly into Munich and see that first, THEN rent the car for your trip to the castles, etc. Return the car in Munich and train to Salzburg for your "taste" of Austria. Take the train from Salzburg into Switzerland (you could even change in Zurich for a one hour trip to Lucern.

Fly home from Zurich.

tcreath

As bettyk mentions, it costs a small fortune to rent a car in one country and drop it off in another. We did a roundtrip from Nuremberg so that didn't affect us. I was just giving some suggestions on things to do in southern Germany. If you want just a taste of Switzerland, we went from Fussen to Appenzell, Switzerland. The drive was pleasant and not too long, and Appenzell was a great little town to visit.

Tracy

AisleSeat

I agree with the plan to fly into Munich, see that then rent the car. There is a 19% surtax on car rentals that are picked up at an airport or train station in Germany. If you pick up a car in one country and drop it in another there is a substantial drop fee.. $100 or so.

I have done this loop before and I think you would really enjoy it, depending on where you fly in to. Start in Munich, spend two or three days there. Pick up a car and go to Saltzburg for a couple of days stopping at Herren Chiemsee to see Ludwig's copy of Versaille there.

After a day or two in Saltzburg head out to Hallstadt for one night. Come back through Salzburg to Bertschesgaden and Konigssea. Then on to Oberammergau, Etal Monestary and Linderhoff Castle.

Drive by way of Wieskirche on to Fussen to See Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau.

If you still have time you should hit the autobahn to Rothenburg ODT for a night or two. You might even sidetrip to the Rhine and Mosel valleys. Then back down the Romatic Road through Dinkelsbuhl to Munich and home. There is no additional charge for an airport drop off. Be sure to get the "unlimited kilometers" feature to do this loop. Have fun or as they say in Bavaria, Gut Fahrt.

logos999

Now this is what the "spelling police" would have to say .

Saltzburg = Salzburg
Herren Chiemsee = Herrenchiemsee
Hallstadt = Hallstatt
Bertschesgaden = Berchtesgaden
Konigssea = Königssee
Etal Monestary = Ettal Monestary
Linderhoff Castle = Linderhof Castle
Fussen = Füssen
Dinkelsbuhl = Dinkelsbühl
Gut Fahrt = Gute Fahrt

;-). No bad feelings, have fun!

travlsolo2

How about "monastery"

logos999

Bingo

AisleSeat

Logos and travls,
It really must be a slow day at your house if all you have to do is correct my spelling. Get a life.

logos999

Come on, be happy and dont take yourself too serious ;-). It is a slow day indeed, 11h40 p.m., >90 degrees. ;-).

And "Gute Fahrt" is "Bon Voyage" doesnt mean you need to have fun.

orangegrove

It's been a few summers since I have travelled to Germany and Switzerland but on my last trip my husband and I stayed in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and took the Zugspitz(a rack railway) to Germany's highest peak. What an awesome view. I recommend going up on the earliest train. We went in May and there was still a whole lot of snow at the top. We also spent a day in a quaint little town called Mittenwald. All the buildings had beautiful mural paintings on the outside. The town is famous for violins and there is a small museum where they still make them. A definate go see. We even purchased a mini violin (case & rosin included) that sits in my china cabinet. My husband absolutely loved this town. We travel extensively and he still talks about going to Mittenwald. It's really what you think a town in the Alps should look like.
As for your rate I would think you could get a lower rate. It is after Oktoberfest, but then again I live on the east coast so rates are probably lower(around $600).
Have a great time in the planning and the trip!

orangegrove

I found an English link to the Zugspitze if you care to take a sneak peak. http://www.zugspitze.de/zugspitze/index_en.php

You can buy a one way ticket and ski down if you wish. We chose not to! It's a long way down.

tracys2cents

$100 drop fee for a one-way car rental isn't too bad in some cases, with gas at $6.00 per gallon it can sometimes be better than driving back a couple of hundred miles to your original location.

AisleSeat

Chances are good that you will "one-hop" from St Louis to Amsterdam, Paris, London, or Stockholm then take another flight to Munich or Nuremberg. That opens up a lot of possibilities for Southern Germany. You could look at fares to Stuttgart, Munich, Nuremburg, Frankfurt, maybe even Augsburg and several more. See if you find one that saves you some money. I assume that the O'fest will be over when you get to Munich so that shouldn't throw a kink into your plans. I think in spite of its name it is in the end of September.

logos999

If you are in Munich or Nuremberg, take the train. There arent any inexpensive flights to those places mentioned from Muc or Nue.

eurotravler

Wes Fowlers Itineraries-


These Upper Bavarian itineraries use the little village of Hohenfurch on the Romantic Road as a starting point. Hohenfurch is approximately 40 minutes drive time southwest of Munich and about 4kms north of Schongau. The itineraries could start and end at any of the towns or villages listed. By taking these routes, you’ll see three Bavarian castles including Neuschwanstein and Linderhof, magnificent Baroque churches and monasteries, thirteen Alpine lakes, Germany’s highest Alpine mountain and scenery ranging from the dramatic to the serene.
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ITINERARY I. To visit two of Bavaria’s most famous castles, I’d suggest an early start from Hohenfurch to arrive at them before the tourist buses from Munich do. From the inn in Hohenfurch return to the Romantic Road (Rte 17) and head south, passing through Schongau and Steingaden to Hohenschwangau. Its about 45kms/28 miles. Leave the car in the special park at Hohenschwangau. You can walk from the parking lot to Schloss Hohenschwangau, one of the few Bavarian castles that someone actually lived in for an extended period of time. Queen Marie, the mother of King Ludwig II lived there for many years. Following the tour of the castle, walk back to the center of the village where you can either take a bus from the Hotel Liesl or horse-drawn cart from the Hotel Muller to Neuschwanstein. Take one or the other; you can walk to Neuschwanstein but it’s a very steep and lengthy climb. After touring the castle, you might want to walk up the Pollat gorge to the Marienbrucke, the bridge that spans the gorge. From there you can look down on Neuschwanstein castle, a most impressive view. Return to the village and your car by either the bus or horse cart. Check the website: www.allgaeu-schwaben.com/cneuschwanstein.html for information on the castle.

The tour of the two castles, coupled with the drive time from Hohenfurch should take about three and a half to four hours. You might want to stop for lunch in the village or drive a short distance to the town of Fussen for lunch.

Following lunch, from Fussen, pick up Rte 16 going towards Markt-Oberdorf. This drive on the western shore of the Forggensee, is highly scenic. Drive on Rte 16 for about 12km/7miles and look for a road on your right and signs for towns named Langenwald or Steingaten. Take the road leading to Langenwald and Steingaten (it has no route number) and continue through the town of Steingaten for about 3km/2 miles. You’ll see signs for Wies and Wieskirche and a road leading off to the right. Take the road to one of the most stunning sights in all of Bavaria, the Wieskirche. With its pale yellow exterior walls and red roof, it looks rather commonplace from the outside though commanding in its highly rural setting. Enter and encounter the extraordinary artistry of the Zimmerman brothers, two masters of Bavarian Baroque.

Return to Steingaden and take Route 17 north to Schongau, then back to Hohenfurch and the Schonach-Hof, your inn. I’d suggest you sit outside in the beer garden by the fish tank laden with trout. Have a beer, regain your energies and walk up to the church in town and prepare yourself for two surprises. The church, the Parish Church of the Assumption, offers some lovely Baroque artwork in its interior. To the rear of the church is a small cemetery, visit it. You’ll find it to be immaculate and laden with plants and flowers that suggest the work of a full time highly skilled gardener.

You may have noticed a building alongside the road in the pastureland behind your inn. It’s a Gothic chapel, St. Ursula’s and dates from 1492. I don’t think it’s open to the public; at least it hasn’t been on my visits.

I think this itinerary, if taken at your ease, will constitute a fairly full day’s activities. If you find, after visiting the castles that you have time to spare, you might want to consider a boat ride on the Forggensee. The boats are available at Fussen.

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ITINERARY II. This is an itinerary for a particularly sunny, clear day. It involves a tour of the German Alps, another castle and a scenic detour into Austria.

Take Rte 17 south from Hohenfurch past Schongau to Peiting. In Peiting, look for Rte 472 (it’s clearly marked) and travel east towards Peissenberg. You’ll see signs for Hohen-Peissenberg, which is where you want to be. Drive to the top of the hill (it’s only about 3500 feet high), park and you’ll get a sweeping, panoramic view of the German Alpine range and eleven Alpine lakes. Return to Rte 472 and continue east for a short distance looking for a road on the right that leads to Bobing and Rottenbuch. The ride to Rottenbuch is in a scenic valley. Stop in Rottenbuch and visit the Gothic basilica built on Roman ruins. The church interior is stunning, yet another example of Bavarian Baroque design. Check to see if the peasant theatre is giving a performance in the evening. You might want to stop back for it, even though it will be in German, actually Bavarian dialect.

From Rottenbuch, take Rte 23 south to Oberammergau, a charming village where a Passion Play takes place every ten years, next in the year 2010. The play’s casts are predominantly villagers. Oberammergau is a delightful walking village with its buildings covered with lovely, colorful murals. Continue on Rte 23, the Deutsche Alpenstrasse (German Alpine Road) to Ettal and follow the Alpenstrasse west to the castle at Linderhof. This is Ludwig II’s castle in a particularly attractive setting. It’s well worth a tour.

Continue west on the Alpenstrasse to the Austrian border at Ammersattel and the town of Reutte where you will pick up Rte 314 and drive east past Heiterwang and Wangle to Lermoos. Just past Lermoos, you’ll find Rte 187; take it north to the border where it becomes Rte 24. Between Lermoos and the border you’ll pass the Zugspitze, Germany’s highest Alpine mountain on your right.

Continue on Rte 24 to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. At the train station, there’s a cog-wheel railroad that will take you to the Schneefernerhaus Hotel, 8700 feet up the Zugspitze. From there a cable car will take you to the summit. The train and cable car trip will take about half an hour.

From Garmisch take Rte 23 north to the village of Ettal, an attractive town with an outstanding monastery, the Kloster Ettal. Its history dates back to 1320, but it was significantly remodeled in the Baroque style in the early 1700s. Continue north on Rte 23. It will take you to Schongau and then Hohenfurch.

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ITINERARY III Here’s a third and final itinerary with two options. Both options include an opportunity to see some Alpine lakes as well as the German Alpine range. The shorter itinerary, about 224kms/150 miles, includes a stop at a third lake, Bavaria’s second largest, the Starnbergersee. This is the lake where King Ludwig II drowned, either by accident or as the result of an assassination prompted by his having exhausted the Bavarian treasury with his obsession for castle building. The longer route encompasses 327kms/200 miles and includes a visit to the Austrian city, Innsbruck, the summer home of the Habsburg Emperors.

To begin, take Rte 17 south to Schongau and Peiting and turn east on Rte 472. Continue on Rte 472 until you reach Rte 11 near Benediktbeuern. Drive south on Rte 11 to Kochel and follow the signs to the Freilichtmuseum von Glentleiten. This is an open air museum with over 40 Bavarian farmhouses dating back to the 16th century. There are regular displays of traditional craftsmanship. It is, in many ways, a Bavarian counterpart of America’s Williamsburg, Virginia. Return to Rte 11 and prepare yourself for a series of hairpin turns as you wend your way between the Kochelsee on your right and the Walchensee on your left. Continue on Rte 11 past Wallgau and Krun, where Rte 11 becomes Rte 2. Continue on Rte 2 to Mittenwald, a fascinating town. Mittenwald is famous for its violin and stringed instrument makers and woodworkers. You’re probably not in the market for a violin, but do check out the wooden masks the carvers make for pre-Lenten celebrations. You’ll find a large number of woodworking craftsmen in the town and a wonderful opportunity to pick up a unique souvenir. Now, backtrack on Rte 2 and 11 to just past the town of Wallgau where you’ll find a toll road on your right. Take it for a scenic ride. (It’s actually part of the Deutsche Alpenstrasse but passes through a national forest alongside the banks of the Isar River, thus the toll.) The toll road ends at Vorderriss. continue on it and cross over the man-made lake, Sylvenstein-stausee. Just past the lake, the road will fork. If you take the right fork, Rte 181, you’ll almost immediately cross the Austrian border and begin the longer of the two itineraries. Continue on scenic Rte 181 to the A12 autobahn and take it westbound to Innsbruck, where by all means you should visit the old town with its magnificent buildings and shops with their wonderful old gilded wrought iron signs. From Innsbruck, take Rte 177 north. The route changes its numbering in Germany from 177 to E6, then 2. Take Rte 2 to Oberau where you can pick up Rte 23 which leads back to Schongau and Hohenfurch.

NOTE: It is necessary to purchase a vignette in order to drive on major Austrian roads. The cost is minimal; the vignette is availabe at border crossings or nearby service stations or shops. It costs next to nothing; without it, however, you are subject to stiff, on the spot fines.

If you’d prefer the shorter itinerary, at the fork just past the Sylvenstein-stausee, continue to the left on Rte 13 to Lenggries where you can take a cable car up the Brauneck to its summit at a little over 5000 feet. Here there’s a viewing platform from which to see most of the Alpine lakes, almost the entire German alpine range and the glaciers of the central Alps to the south. Continue north on Rte 13 to Bad Tolz. This is a large town with modern spas and equally modern medical facilities. The old part of town is charming though with its colorful old gabled houses. From Bad Tolz, you can pick up Rte 472 and take it to signs leading to Wolfl and Seeshaupt which puts you on the shore of the Starnbergersee. Drive up the eastern shore of the lake (the scenic route) to Starnberg, then pick up the road leading to Weilheim and Peissenberg. On your way down the western shore of the lake, stop at the monastery in Andechs and sample the monastic beer. Andech’s beer is one of the worlds finest brews, available only in the immediate area of the monastery and certainly worth a detour. At Peissenberg you’ll be back on our old friend Rte 472 which leads to Schongau and Hohenfurch.

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So much for itineraries. A comment or two regarding the inn in Hohenfurch. The following comments were extracted from the web page of one of Fodors contributors who traveled to Germany in June 2000 and stayed at the inn on the basis of my recommendation. It’s followed by a posting to Fodors from 1998 by another traveler to whom I recommended the inn. I've been recommending this inn for over ten years and continue to get nothing but favorable feedback from travelers to whom I've recommended it, despite the lack of English spoken by its proprietors.
“LANDGASTHOF U CAFE SCHONACH-HOF, Familie Haslach. Kapellenstrasse 22, D-2928 Hohenfurch 92DM w/WC, shower and breakfast. Tel: 08861-4108. No credit cards accepted.
This hotel was one of our favorite places. It is in a very small town on the Romantic Road, about 30 minutes away from the Bavarian castles, 45 minutes away from Munich. When entering Hohenfurch from the north, turn left on the only intersection and follow the brown sign with the hotel’s name on it. The family members do not speak any English. Our room, St. Ursula, was on the 3rd floor facing the pastureland to the rear with its cows and sheep. The room was very large. The bathroom, near the entrance had a shower with doors. The room had a large closet, large bed, tv, a sitting area with a large table and chairs, a minibar and a large balcony shared with the next room. The restaurant has an excellent menu. Breakfast includes fruit yogurt, breads, meats, cheese, cereal, coffee, tea, milk and orange juice. For the price we paid, $45 a night this place is outstanding.

When we first arrived at this hotel, the woman that gave us our room key seemed a little concerned and upset. I found out later from my husband that she gave him a look of relief when he spoke German to her. It seems that since she didn’t speak English, she thought she was going to have a hard time communicating with us. She warmed up to us quickly after that and was quite enjoyable. She even treated us to to pear schnapps for an after dinner drink.”

Take a look at this web site for additional info: http://www.bensbauernhof.com/

logos999

D-2928 Hohenfurch is not not in Bavaria? Bavarian zip codes start with 8 or 9 (and new zip codes have 5 digits, pls check.

akiace

We also travelled to Germany in May this year and spent the majority of our time in Bavaria. My advice is, if you like shopping and museum, stay in the cities like Munich. If you prefer mountains & lakes. stay in the quaint Bavarian towns like Berchtesgaden. Berchtesgaden has a direct bus that goes to Salzburg (if you're taking public transport, which is what we did). We had similar excurions as tcreath & orangegrove. From Berchtesgaden, we took daytrips to Konigsee, Ramsau, Maria Gern, Mt Jenner & Salzburg, all with the public bus service. From Garmisch, we went to Zugspitze (awesome view), Mittenwald, Munich, Neuschwanstein & Linderhof, again with only public transport.

You can look at our online photo album,

http://community.webshots.com/user/akiace79