Need Edinburgh - London Planning and Train Advice
 

We (DH, DS and myself) will be traveling from London to Edinburgh in a couple of months. We want to spend four nights in London, and have to be in Edinburgh by the fifth night, but I'm thinking of carving out some time on the train trip between the two locations to visit York.

It looks like, due to discount pricing on the train tickets, that it's much wiser, budget-wise, for us to book our tickets as far ahead as possible, which of course negates our flexibility on our travel day. And it does seem, without leaving London too early or arriving in Edinburgh too late, we could spend a 1/2 day or so in York (and we can check our luggage at the train station). I know it's subjective, but will it be worth the hassle? I would like DS to have some time in a smaller place.

Any other suggestions for a 1/2 day in between? Maybe a smaller town, where DS can get a very small taste of English country life (DH and I have traveled in the countryside, but DS has not)? (Cambridge and Oxford have been voted out of the running, as DS will be spending all his time at University himself)

And then, on the return, I'm facing the same problem with flexibility. We must be in Edinburgh the day before we head home to the U.S. via Heathrow (late-day flight the following day), and we've decided to spend that last night in London, so we don't have to worry about getting to the airport . But, again, seems like we should book those return tickets from Edinburgh to London ahead of time, which will cause me stress, I know, as we have to business to finish up that morning in Edinburgh. What do people do who live there - just grit their teeth and spend a lot for a last-minute ticket, or are there some ways to obtain some flexibility on the tickets and ticket pricing that I don't know about?

You may want to take the Caledonian Sleeper train back from Edinburgh to London - saving time and scenery you will have already seen on the way up. Yes booking tickets far ahead of time saves money at the expense of sponteniety and flexibility - www.nationalrail.co.uk has all the fares though some folks report even better ones on the East Coast rail line's own web site - for lots of great info on British trains I always http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/; www.seat61.com (expert especially on British trains and discount fares) and www.ricksteves.com.

If you desire complete flexibility to hop any train anytime then look at a BritRail Pass which compared to full walk up fares would perhaps be cheaper for your plans - maybe not but could be in light of really expensive walk up tickets.

I response to your request for an alternate 1/2 day, I would suggest Durham. It has a lovely riverside walk, near the castle and cathedral and is a charming town. The walk to Crook Hall is easy and a wonderful place.
http://www.crookhallgardens.co.uk/

I loved Durham. It's a smaller town than York, and needs less time to see. And I actually prefer Durham Cathedral to York Minster. But I don't think Durham station has luggage storage.

<<What do people do who live there - just grit their teeth and spend a lot for a last-minute ticket>>

Most Edinburgh locals wouldn't take the train to London to fly from Heathrow, They'd fly from EDI and connect in LHR, (or AMS or CDG). So if you can alter your fights consider flying home from EDI.

If you need more ticket flexibility there are Super Off Peak tickets that aren't train specific. Buy these ASAP at www.eastcoast.co.uk More expensive than committing yourself to a particular train, but far cheaper than walk-up prices on the day.

York, Durham and Alnmouth (for Alnwick and its castle) are all places where you could spend a few hours. (You'd need two tickets as a break of journey wouldn't be permitted on one ticket from Kings Cross to EDI.)

Durham and its cathedral and close are sweet but not a small town but much smaller than York and it all is right opposite the train station, on the other side of deep ravine - you can see the cathedral from the station.

Berwick-on-Tweed is another mid-size town that I really like - about right for a few hours - impressive old fortifications in the former and present military citadel town - the town somehow still claims to be independent due to a quirk of history. (http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/B...uponTweed.html tells why some consider Berwick to be an independent state) - Berwick is smack on the English-Scottish border and perhaps that is why it became a military bastion - that and it is on the North Sea.

<<You may want to take the Caledonian Sleeper train back from Edinburgh to London . . .>>

Would not do this. You're going on a transatlantic flight the next day, why take the slow overnight train that won't net you a good night's sleep just so you can stretch a 4.5 hour trip into 8+?

You should have open-jawed the tickets - check out the possibilities with change fees and rearranging the return flights.

overnight train that won't net you a good night's sleep>

ah the usual ignorant assumption that no one can get a good night's sleep on any night train, even on these trains whoses bedding and comfort is as good as any in Europe.

BigRuss makes a sweeping assumption that no one can sleep on a sleeper train without one iota of proof to say that except perhaps - yes perhaps if he has ever taken that night train or any other - any proof a'tal. And with fares as low as 29 quid I've seen the savings over the day train could be significant and the usual hotel fee of a few hundreds bucks makes this a wise possibility.

Definitely agree with PalenQ on the night train unless you plan to make a hop-off-hop-on along the way. I took the train from Edinburgh to London using part of a BritRail pass. I stayed two nights in York on the way. I recommend York but I don't think you are treating DS fairly to spend only a few hours there. The York Minister is magnificent and the whole town is worth several days, if you had them. Since you've BT&DT let DS do his own thing in York when he goes to the University.

There's the smart way; the best way for your needs; the cheap way. None of them is the same thing at all. You want the have your cake and eat it too way. That one doesn't exist.

I'd pay for the flexibility on the day going north. I'd then fly home from Edinburgh avoiding wasting a day returning to London.

<<ah the usual ignorant assumption that no one can get a good night's sleep on any night train, even on these trains whoses bedding and comfort is as good as any in Europe.>>

Not ignorant nor assuming that no one can get a good night's sleep. Fully knowing that night trains are less comfortable than A GOOD HOTEL (except the 143 GBP First Class single bed sleeper) and that the OP will be flying the next day, go for the comfort.

PalQ saves every nickel possible, shills for overnight trains at every opportunity, assumes that what works for PalQ works for everyone else, disregards the OP's circumstances and ignores comfort, convenience, and efficiency. You won't get a comfortable sleeping berth for 26 quid, you'll get an advance fare reclining chair that may sell out immediately - that's 7 more hours on an economy plus airplane seat.

For the 176.70 quid you'd need for three second-class sleeper berths (and which one of you sleeps with a stranger in the berth, you, your hubby or your son?), you could get a fine hotel room. See here: http://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm#Sleeper times)

And how in the flying h--l does a 23:45 sleeper from Edinburgh arriving at 6:45 in the morning at EUSTON do anything helpful for someone who has to then take his/her bags to Heathrow for a late afternoon flight?

Geez.

And how in the flying h--l does a 23:45 sleeper from Edinburgh arriving at 6:45 in the morning at EUSTON do anything helpful for someone who has to then take his/her bags to Heathrow for a late afternoon flight?>

Duh Euston does have a luggage storage - guess you BigRuss did not realize that simple fact.

Duh nothing, it's a ridiculous plan to suggest people wander around London at 645 am just because you have a train fetish that you want everyone else to have.

Get off the horse, PalQ. It's a preposterous suggestion for the final day of travel because it stretches a long day into two.

Thanks for the responses - and the back and forth. Rest assured, we will analyze the cost of the various options in the way that works for us.

In a perfect world, where I had perfect information, we would have arranged things a little differently. When I booked the flights months ago, I was thinking that we'd drop DS off at Uni, then be able to take off somewhere else (via RyanAir or EasyJet) before returning to Heathrow for the flight home. But due to school-related tasks that can only be done after DS checks into his dorm, we're staying in Edinburgh longer than originally planned. And we do know that most flights from Edinburgh to Heathrow leave early morning, which would put us kicking our heels at Heathrow for quite a long time (our flight back to the US doesn't leave until 4 pm). In terms of the sleeper train, I have good memories of taking that when my family first travelled to Europe when I was a kid, but I think we'd rather have a nice dinner in London.

The suggestions about Durham and Berwick upon Tweed were great; I'm not sure we can make them work, due to having our (small amount of) luggage with us, but I'm looking into it. They both look delightful! And I like York, and of course DS may visit there and the other places himself without us any time he's not at the pub(oh, I mean, when he's not studying).

And the Super Off Peak tickets may work well for us, for our return to London; we know that whenever we go, it will be during off-peak times.