Those acts of kindness would be rare in a Rome or Florence and Heaven forbid Venice!

Pal - isn't that the same as London compared to Manchester or Bristol?

it's funny though how the kind and friendly people of Naples turn into homicidal maniacs when they get behind the wheel of a vehicle!

I don't know any non-neapolitans, even those who love the city, who would consider Naples to be the "real Italy". It's a city that has its own language, and its own culture. The music of Naples, and the Opera Buffa, are much loved in Italy, but it's still a charming, slightly exotic foreign country to most Italians.

I disagree, bvlenci.
Naples is the birthplace of Pizza. How more Italian can it get?

Naples isn't really the birthplace of "pizza", although the Neapolitan version with tomato sauce originated there. That was (I think) sometime in the 17th century, whereas earlier forms of pizza were known in Italy long before tomatoes arrived here. A popular early topping was pizza brushed with melted lard.

The name pizza is very ancient, and has cognates in all the countries around the Mediterranean. Pita, for example.

Where I live, the word pizza seems to have been a general word for bread. There is a "pizza di Pasqua" (Easter pizza) that's a cheese bread, not flat at all, in fact, very tall. There's another "pizza dolce" (sweet pizza) that's a bit like panettone.

I think the same is true of the Scots and Irish "scone". What people in the US call "Irish soda bread" was called "scone" by my Irish grandmothers. It's still used that way in the area where my family is from.

In both cases, a general word for bread came to mean a specific kind of bread.

In any case, my point was that Italians wouldn't consider Naples to be the "real Italy", as they recognize that it's a city much different from any other part of Italy.

bvlenci - an interesting point about "real Italy". Where would such a place be?

Language vs Dialect is a difficult one, if only because, as I understand it, Modern Italian is pretty much "Florentine Dialect"

I can understand what you say aboot Naples, but the city seems far more my perception of Italian than e.g. Palermo.
The Sienese always boast that they are first members of their "Contrada" (The 17 historical divisions of the city), then Senese, and finally Italians.

I get the impression that Venetians get as far as three - Italy is something that happened to other people.

It has been a few weeks that we have been back home, and I really do miss Naples.

It is a place we will return to.

Oh come on, the place is a dump. Even Napolitans themselves hate it.

Oh come on, the place is a dump. Even Napolitans themselves hate it.>>

you've met them all, have you, Loacker?

<i>My friend who has just returned from a trip to Italy, described Naples as "interesting" but said he was happy to leave after two days.</i>

<i>Oh come on, the place is a dump. Even Napolitans themselves hate it.</i>

The first statement implies that yours is a second hand impression of the city; the second one that you were there. So which is it?

As someone who was just there, it is the furthest thing from a dump.

We have travelled extensively throughout Italy and Europe, and Naples is a place that stays with you long after you have left.

Fascinating, interesting, beautiful, real, warm and friendly. That is the Naples we came to love.

I suspect that Loacker, if he comes back at all, will be a little coy about whether he has any first hand experience of Naples.

I will happily admit that I found some of the completely unlit streets somewhat off-putting if not to say worrying, the traffic utterly murderous, and the graffiti off-putting [but you could say the same about the graffiti in Rome and Florence]
but all the people we met were very friendly and the NAM was brilliant.

Friends of ours made the mistake of staying in a hotel near the station and never went out at night because they were too frightened - but then, their style and experience of travel is such that had they asked me, I'd have advised them to stay in Sorrento and never step foot in Naples.

different strokes.....

I don't need to travel to Naples to know it's a gritty and unsophisticated place, just like I don't have to travel to Mogadishu to know it's a hellhole.

Never underestimate the power of research.

Anyway, I'll pass by the city next summer on my way to the Amalfi Coast (out of curiosity) and will report back.

My friend reported that the city was very dirty. People don't bother throw their trash in the trash bins, although there's one on every corner. She raved about the pizza and hospitality of Neapolitans, though.

Never underestimate the power of research. >>

never over-estimate it either is just as valid.

IMO Naples could be described as gritty AND sophisticated, dirty AND hospitable, fascinating AND repellant.

The rubbish [trash to you] issue to do with the Carmora [mafia] and its dumping of toxic waste in and around Naples - a real italian-style scandal:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6794236.html

I suspect that somebody might, just, be looking to stir up a few "Billy Goats Gruff". Why else would you come on to a thread to disagree woith people who have actually been to a city because "one of my friends went there".

I seriously doubt Mogadishu has anything to rival Spaccanapoli, but as I've never visited, I cannot really judge.

I liked Naples very much and felt very safe. I would certainly return there.

Jmb67 if you mean very safe as in it's not a war zone then yes, Naples is pretty safe in that regards. But to say Naples is very safe is misleading. Petty theft and muggings are a real problem in Naples, and I wouldn't recommend tourists go out alone at night.

All I can say, again, is that Naples is wonderful. And also, once again, we were just there.

<don't need to travel to Naples to know it's a gritty and unsophisticated place,>

Says a lot about your own lack of sophistication if you think a 3000 year old city with links to the Ancient Greeks, the Julio Claudians, the Bourbons and the Spanish Royal family has nothing to offer.

You base your judgement on hearsay and 'research' which will give you exactly what you are looking for.

<i>I don't need to travel to Naples to know it's a gritty and unsophisticated place, just like I don't have to travel to Mogadishu to know it's a hellhole.
</i>

An armchair traveler? Is the same true of your comments on the outer <i>arrondissements</i> in Paris?

The ONLY way to judge another place is to go there and experience it yourself.

I'm curious. How does Palermo and Sicily in general compare to Naples? It's more southerly than Naples and also has its mafia issues. Is it as gritty and chaotic as Naples, or much more civilized? (For lack of a better word)

Have you been to Palermo? I have, and I loved it. However, I also found Naples a really great destination. There are, I suppose, some similarities, but in general I found Sicily quite different from all of mainland Italy. Not better, not worse, just different.

This is all very subjective. Florence leaves me cold, even though it has many artistic treasures and I'm a Renaissance art fiend; I like the sights, but the city itself--meh. And though it's mobbed with tourists, I love love LOVE Venice because it's so beautiful. I never tire of Rome.

Naples is a lot of fun, lively. Palermo is like another world.

These are merely my impressions.

Th old center of Palermo is as gritty as the Naples center.

From a comment on my trip report:


Coincidentally, I stayed at the Hotel Joli (where we stayed) in Palermo and liked it very much once I recovered my composure. A few minutes after arriving in Sicily, I was the victim of a knife-point robbery in the hotel lobby.

Other comments refer to the garbage.

Great, thanks, Michael.

I'm particularly pleased to have read that extract from your TR as we fly into Catania tomorrow.

luckily we are not going to Palermo for which i am now most grateful.

We've been to and loved both Naples and Palermo. Annhig, sorry you are not going to see beautiful Palermo. Sorry that Michael had a problem there. We had none in any part of Sicily, nor in any of our three stays in the Napoli area.

<i> Sorry that Michael had a problem there.</i>

I did not, it was a reply to my trip report.

We loved Palermo.
Now we don't live in mogadiscio but nevertheless in a hellhole according to Trump.
Atlanta looked a lot gritty and dirty to me. Yet i also liked it.
Some are obsessed with tidiness.

Whatthehello--We love big, old dirty cities: Cairo, Istanbul, Napoli, etc.

PS--If you think Atlanta is gritty and dirty. . . To me, living here, it is a very 21st Century City. The only dirt and grit are caused by all the demolition and reconstruction that goes on constantly.

I was surprised to find Palermo very clean--had read Michael's report, among others, prior to my visit. Maybe it was time of year, but there was no garbage problem when we visited.

I found Naples dirtier and more crowded in the old quarters (but I still liked it).

dwdvagamundo are you sure you've been to Istanbul? I thought it was very clean.

I visited Atlanta with a homeless and I don't think I saw the best places ;-)

Loacker--I was there decades ago. But it sure is old enough to appeal to me.

Leely--that was my reaction to Palermo. Palermo was one of the biggest pleasant surprises we've had in our travels.

Yes, I think I was prepared for Palermo to be this dangerous, dirty place and instead it was beautiful. I have said this before, but we were standing and admiring the baroque Quattro Canti, and amid all the busy traffic, tons of cars, etc., a little wooden cart being pulled by a mule and driven by two children crossed the intersection.

Count me in as another fan of Palermo and Naples (and Catania too).

I am going through our pictures of our time in Naples this past summer and realize that we must go back someday soon.

So much more to see and experience.