My trip is in your hands! :) Can this itinerary be done in 12 days? If so, how?
Feb 17th, 2006, 02:16 PM
#22
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dherron,
Isn't the best advice that which comes from the greatest number of experienced people?
It sounds like if 10 people tell you that your visit will be infinately more rewarding if you pare it back to two destinations and then one person tells you that you'll be fine with your original plan then you're going to say: "Finally, someone agrees it will work - I'm sticking with my original plan" and promptly ignore the good advice people here took the time to share with you.
Why even ask for advice?
This reminds me of someone who goes through 6 realtors who all say he is asking 50% too much for his house so he keeps going with new new ones until someone agrees with what HE thinks his house is worth.
Isn't the best advice that which comes from the greatest number of experienced people?
It sounds like if 10 people tell you that your visit will be infinately more rewarding if you pare it back to two destinations and then one person tells you that you'll be fine with your original plan then you're going to say: "Finally, someone agrees it will work - I'm sticking with my original plan" and promptly ignore the good advice people here took the time to share with you.
Why even ask for advice?
This reminds me of someone who goes through 6 realtors who all say he is asking 50% too much for his house so he keeps going with new new ones until someone agrees with what HE thinks his house is worth.
Feb 17th, 2006, 02:21 PM
#23
OK now I am "discouraged" and "disappointed" myself...
I really don't understand posting a question and then ignoring 9 out of 10 answers, because they don't way what you want them to, and clinging to the 1 person who thinks you might be able to pull this off.
Actually I do think your proposed itinerary is possible, I just don't think it will be very pleasant, particulary for an elderly arthritic person.
I really don't understand posting a question and then ignoring 9 out of 10 answers, because they don't way what you want them to, and clinging to the 1 person who thinks you might be able to pull this off.
Actually I do think your proposed itinerary is possible, I just don't think it will be very pleasant, particulary for an elderly arthritic person.
Feb 17th, 2006, 03:07 PM
#25
One of the tremendous benefits of this forum is the combined experience of so many world travellers who counsel others less experienced so they don't make the same mistakes they did. But you are obviously free to ignore them.
Travelling to Europe for the first time and hitting a different city every couple of days for 12 days with elderly and/or arthritic travel companions and having fun in the process would be a tremendous challenge for even the most seasoned/experienced traveller, not to mention ones who has never done it before. That is the gist of what the folks above are trying to tell you.
Travelling on a tight schedule has its own risks. Missing trains, train strikes, illness, etc. can and do happen which can be a disaster if you have to be in a certain city at a certain time so that you can catch the next train so that at the end of the trip you're at the right airport to go home.
If you don't have a travel agent and are going to organize this trip yourself, I'm not sure you realize the substantial amount of research that must be done to pull it off. Trust me, it's a ton. For many of us though, it's a labor of love. I presume it is for you, too. Hopefully you don't think the folks here will do all or even most of your planning. You've asked about hotels in various cities. Everyone here needs to know what your buget is. More to the point, there is a search feature here which will allow you to start your own research. There is a wealth of information already here if you want to spend the time.
Constant travelling is tiring. Are your travel companions ready for the sprint you are proposing? Your mother, if she's anything like mine, would not appreciate being hearded from city to city with her balky knees.
Yes, it is doable. But is it advisable for inexperienced, elderly travelers? No.
Travelling to Europe for the first time and hitting a different city every couple of days for 12 days with elderly and/or arthritic travel companions and having fun in the process would be a tremendous challenge for even the most seasoned/experienced traveller, not to mention ones who has never done it before. That is the gist of what the folks above are trying to tell you.
Travelling on a tight schedule has its own risks. Missing trains, train strikes, illness, etc. can and do happen which can be a disaster if you have to be in a certain city at a certain time so that you can catch the next train so that at the end of the trip you're at the right airport to go home.
If you don't have a travel agent and are going to organize this trip yourself, I'm not sure you realize the substantial amount of research that must be done to pull it off. Trust me, it's a ton. For many of us though, it's a labor of love. I presume it is for you, too. Hopefully you don't think the folks here will do all or even most of your planning. You've asked about hotels in various cities. Everyone here needs to know what your buget is. More to the point, there is a search feature here which will allow you to start your own research. There is a wealth of information already here if you want to spend the time.
Constant travelling is tiring. Are your travel companions ready for the sprint you are proposing? Your mother, if she's anything like mine, would not appreciate being hearded from city to city with her balky knees.
Yes, it is doable. But is it advisable for inexperienced, elderly travelers? No.
Feb 17th, 2006, 03:30 PM
#26
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dherron,
I think you should try to see the places you want to see. It's not ideal time-wise, but it's better than not seeing them at all.
Only you know what your mother and other travel companions are up to doing. Figure that out, then allow for more rest time, and you'll be fine. And you'll have memories for a lifetime. I've traveled with some older people and I've found their energy more than matches mine.
I would suggest that you take a look at some of the tours. They will make your life easier, because you won't have to figure out and organize all the travel logistics between cities. It will give you more time to relax and see the sights. And even if you don't take the tour, their itineries might be helpful to you.
Good luck with your planning,
cw
I think you should try to see the places you want to see. It's not ideal time-wise, but it's better than not seeing them at all.
Only you know what your mother and other travel companions are up to doing. Figure that out, then allow for more rest time, and you'll be fine. And you'll have memories for a lifetime. I've traveled with some older people and I've found their energy more than matches mine.
I would suggest that you take a look at some of the tours. They will make your life easier, because you won't have to figure out and organize all the travel logistics between cities. It will give you more time to relax and see the sights. And even if you don't take the tour, their itineries might be helpful to you.
Good luck with your planning,
cw
Feb 17th, 2006, 05:25 PM
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Feb 17th, 2006, 09:16 PM
#29
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Go for it- just pare down a bit!
Yes, it is wonderful to spend more time in one place and explore in depth. However, you can also choose a few sights that are "must sees" for your mother and for you. Figure out possible train conections and decide what you can reasonably fit in considering the limitations of your travel companions. Count a day for travel between each stop. I would also make the train reservations before you go, so you have reserved seats. And I would start in London, go on to Paris, make a stop in Switzerland (but not in a major city), and end your trip in Venice. So what if you don't experience every "important" sight, or if you just barely skim the surface of those you do get to. Will your mother feel worse if she misses some things or doesn't go at all?
When I travel with my husband, we plan very differently than I do when I travel with my 80 year old mother.
She just renewed her passport for our trip to Vienna, Budapest, and Prague at the end of March. And no, I definitely will not be able to explore those cities in the way I would really like to, but that's not the point. We will enjoy our time together in three beautiful cities- at her pace- just as we have in 8 other European countries, China, and Japan.
Yes, it is wonderful to spend more time in one place and explore in depth. However, you can also choose a few sights that are "must sees" for your mother and for you. Figure out possible train conections and decide what you can reasonably fit in considering the limitations of your travel companions. Count a day for travel between each stop. I would also make the train reservations before you go, so you have reserved seats. And I would start in London, go on to Paris, make a stop in Switzerland (but not in a major city), and end your trip in Venice. So what if you don't experience every "important" sight, or if you just barely skim the surface of those you do get to. Will your mother feel worse if she misses some things or doesn't go at all?
When I travel with my husband, we plan very differently than I do when I travel with my 80 year old mother.
She just renewed her passport for our trip to Vienna, Budapest, and Prague at the end of March. And no, I definitely will not be able to explore those cities in the way I would really like to, but that's not the point. We will enjoy our time together in three beautiful cities- at her pace- just as we have in 8 other European countries, China, and Japan.
Feb 18th, 2006, 06:11 AM
#30
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Hi dherron. Please just take a look at Globus and Grand Circle Tours to see if one might match your Mom's wishlist. I think sometime we let our egos get the better of us and don't want to admit that a good tour might be just the ticket, excuse the pun. (I've two elderly parents, and I have no trouble putting myself in your picture so to speak.) You likely would not have to worry about taxis, getting to and from stations, carrying large bags, dealing with unforeseen snaphoos (spelling?), making dinner reservations, arranging individual city tours, etc. I know you want to do this on your own, and you are a wonderful daughter for taking on the challenge.
If you decide to continue with this daunting task, then might your Mom consider skipping London? Even that would make the itinerary more manageable. Against my better judgment, I've got a couple of what you might call enabling suggestions: There's a TGV 4-hour train from Paris to Lausanne, which is a beautiful old Swiss city on Lac Leman. From Lausanne, maybe staying the night so you could do a boatride on the lake, there's a 6-hour, no changes, morning train directly to Venice. (Passing through the mountains of southern Switzerland and northern Italy I think.) Alternately, there's catbert's suggestion of Paris to Bern, a TGV which takes 4:46 hours. If you go that route, there's no direct train to Venice that I can see, so you'd have a change or two. If you consider the Bern option, then I'd add Lucerne to your stops, and go from Bern to Lucerne, so you can enjoy the lovely rail route from Lucerne to Milan before heading over to Venice. You can see that this second option requires a lot more getting to and from train stations than the Paris, Lausanne, Venice option. Catbert did say to budget a hefty taxi fund, and that would certainly be a good idea if you insist on going it alone.
Hang in there, and best wishes. You can see that I'm easily wooed by romantic notions of memory-making trips with mom. J.
If you decide to continue with this daunting task, then might your Mom consider skipping London? Even that would make the itinerary more manageable. Against my better judgment, I've got a couple of what you might call enabling suggestions: There's a TGV 4-hour train from Paris to Lausanne, which is a beautiful old Swiss city on Lac Leman. From Lausanne, maybe staying the night so you could do a boatride on the lake, there's a 6-hour, no changes, morning train directly to Venice. (Passing through the mountains of southern Switzerland and northern Italy I think.) Alternately, there's catbert's suggestion of Paris to Bern, a TGV which takes 4:46 hours. If you go that route, there's no direct train to Venice that I can see, so you'd have a change or two. If you consider the Bern option, then I'd add Lucerne to your stops, and go from Bern to Lucerne, so you can enjoy the lovely rail route from Lucerne to Milan before heading over to Venice. You can see that this second option requires a lot more getting to and from train stations than the Paris, Lausanne, Venice option. Catbert did say to budget a hefty taxi fund, and that would certainly be a good idea if you insist on going it alone.
Hang in there, and best wishes. You can see that I'm easily wooed by romantic notions of memory-making trips with mom. J.
Feb 18th, 2006, 06:27 AM
#31
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jmw44 -- it's "SNAFU" a military term, an acronym for Situation Normal, All F**ked Up. 
Now, where is Ira's lightbulb when I need it???
Dherron, My husband and I went from London to Istanbul in 24 days, spending 2 days in London, trained to Paris, spent 3 nights there, took an overnight train to Venice, spent 1 night there, another train to Florence for 1 night, and on to Rome for 4 nights. From there we flew to Athens and continued on boats and buses to and through Turkey. The train ride from Paris to Venice is 12 hours long (we did it at night), but it stops for a passport/security check in Switzerland on the way. I suspect if you took it in the daytime, you could see some mountains.
I am not normally a big fan of tours since I like to do it myself, but I would see that a tour might help you and your Mom travel easier with the assistance with bags and other help to see the sights given your see-it-and-run-to-the-next-thing plan.
My only concern is shared in that you won't really see anything by traveling so much, but if you're married to the idea, then yes, it CAN be done.
Jules
Now, where is Ira's lightbulb when I need it???
Dherron, My husband and I went from London to Istanbul in 24 days, spending 2 days in London, trained to Paris, spent 3 nights there, took an overnight train to Venice, spent 1 night there, another train to Florence for 1 night, and on to Rome for 4 nights. From there we flew to Athens and continued on boats and buses to and through Turkey. The train ride from Paris to Venice is 12 hours long (we did it at night), but it stops for a passport/security check in Switzerland on the way. I suspect if you took it in the daytime, you could see some mountains.
I am not normally a big fan of tours since I like to do it myself, but I would see that a tour might help you and your Mom travel easier with the assistance with bags and other help to see the sights given your see-it-and-run-to-the-next-thing plan.
My only concern is shared in that you won't really see anything by traveling so much, but if you're married to the idea, then yes, it CAN be done.
Jules
Feb 18th, 2006, 06:49 AM
#32
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Thanks, jules; is this forum education or what? But re your last comment, I have to disagree. One can travel by train from place to place and never even leave the station and still SEE the wonderful countryside. One only has to look out the windows and voila. J.
Feb 18th, 2006, 06:53 AM
#33
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That's true, JM, but I do think that just seeing the countryside fly by is not the same "seeing" as sitting in a cafe, walking through the Louvre, and taking the time to interact with the locals a bit. 
Jules
Jules
Feb 18th, 2006, 07:26 AM
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Of course not, jules, but there are times when one has to decide between waiting until circumstances are perfect and risking that that day may never come, and deciding, as katt so reasonably put it above, to take what you can get and make the most of it. J.
Feb 18th, 2006, 07:59 AM
#35
I hope dherron is still interested and not given up reading this thread...
I really think it is an OK plan, if only London or Rome was left out. And I'm not saying they will be there when you go back, as I understand this might be a once in a lifetime trip, but millions of people live happy and productive lives never having been to London or Rome ;-)
My other thought is not to compare this trip to your successful Hawaiian one 5 years ago. Traveling Europe is much more challenging and exhausting than being in the islands.
I really think it is an OK plan, if only London or Rome was left out. And I'm not saying they will be there when you go back, as I understand this might be a once in a lifetime trip, but millions of people live happy and productive lives never having been to London or Rome ;-)
My other thought is not to compare this trip to your successful Hawaiian one 5 years ago. Traveling Europe is much more challenging and exhausting than being in the islands.
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:01 AM
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I am going to side with the majority of the posters on this thread to urge that less can be more. I have traveled like this when I was in my early 20's and had a Eurail pass and found it exhausting after a week or so of doing a different location every two or three days. My memories of these places were also a blurr. Recently when traveling with my family I have shorted a few destinations for time as I have been to those places several times and my family experienced similar memories. London, Paris and Rome are packed with things to do and see and while you could probably see lesser destinations in a much shorter time I would give each of the above places more time than you have given. In fact London, Paris and Rome would be a nice first grand tour of Europe albeit in a short 12 days. I also agree with many other posters that for you a tour might just be the best way to go. Lastly you might just want to consider your main purpose for this trip. If the purpose is to "see" as much as Europe as you can than what you propose is certainly doable. If your purpose is to have a great time with your mother and see some of Europe I too would urge you to pare down your trip abit.
Feb 23rd, 2006, 07:12 AM
#38
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Yes, I'm still following the thread and finding it filled with very useful information. I'm not sure what the reply "say say say" means. A hidden message/code? Also not sure what "OP" means in the "i'm afraid we lost our OP..." reply. Original Purpose, maybe?
I'm still researching and slowly putting together a plan. Based on some of the info provided, we may eliminate one location. It remains to be seen.
Any additional input is greatly appreciated!
I'm still researching and slowly putting together a plan. Based on some of the info provided, we may eliminate one location. It remains to be seen.
Any additional input is greatly appreciated!
