nessa_L

Hello Fodorites!

Here's a little question.

While trying to figure out which rail pass would be more advantageous for me, I came across this on the RailEurope website:
"For Eurail Pass holders with a valid pass including Belgium, Eurostar offers a discount on full 1st and 2nd class fares. The Pass holder 1st class reduction is also available with a 2nd class Youth Pass."
The Eurail pass I am planning on buying would be the Youth 4 countries Select for 5 days (the countries being Belenux, France, Switzerland and Germany). 5 days is the smallest number of days they offer, but I would only be using it for 4 days (and it still be cheaper than traveling with point-to-point tickets).
I will also be traveling on the Eurostar from London to Brussels. So if the information from the RailEurope is correct, I could use my extra day on my railpass to get an upgrade from 2nd to 1st class.
Any ideas how that would actually work? Do I have to buy my tickets from London? Or do I have to buy my 2nd class ticket online and get the upgrade once I'm in London?

Big thanks!

Vanessa

TimS

The passholder fare on the Eurostar is £50 for a standard ticket and £90 for a Leisure Select ticket. The standard youth fare starts at €40. You'll save money by simply buying a youth fare ticket. And IMO, paying more for 1st class isn't worth it.

Did you price point-to-point tickets on the Rail Europe site? Their fares are often inflated. Buying ptop tickets on each country's national rail site is often cheaper than a pass.

nessa_L

I assume you meant £40, not euros.

I found fares of £44 for a regular journey. So if it's only a difference of a few pounds, I might as well take advantage of it.

And yes, I did not get the point-to-point fares of the RailEurope website. I compared both from the national rail websites and from the Rick Steves time/cost rail map and the railpass always came out a few dollars cheaper. I'd rather travel with a railpass than buying tickets every time, so even if it would have been a little more expensive to have a railpass, I would probably still consider it. The peace of mind it gives me is well worth the price, IME.

thursdaysd

No, Tim meant euros. See tinyurl.com/4joyna.

TimS

No, I meant euros, not pounds. Since you've done your pass/p2p comparison homework and like the peace of mind the pass gives you, then go for it.

PalenQ

No you do not want to buy your tickets for the passholder fare or youth fare in London as the lower priced tickets on these multi-tiered pricing structure are often sold out weeks in advance. Thus you could pay a lot more by just showing up and fares in the pass or youth categories may not even be available on the train you want as they are sold in allotments - certain number only. Anyway you should check both eurostar.com for pass and youth fares in pounds that you can book online and have sent to you and also thru RailEurope in the U.S., which has youth fares of $55 or so in the lowest of the multi-tiered fare structure (much cheaper than 50 pounds or about $90 quoted above. The youth fare may indeed be cheaper than the passholder fare, which for folks over 25 is often a great fare - esp, like the youth fares it can even be changed without penalty in London up to the time of the train (subject to availability in that exact fare category however) - i think if you have enough time RailEurope could well be cheaper than 50 pounds quoted above - but only if you book well in advance. For any Eurostar ticket info in the U.S. i always recommend calling Byron - who many Fodorites have raved about and IME is an expert that you can actually talk to - at www.budgeteuropetravel.com and have him or anyone there do a manual search for either the youth or pass holder fare as www.raileurope.com often it seems does not list the cheapest fares that are actually available thru them (many Fodorites have complained that they often e-mail back at a higher price than indicated on their site. And of course also try eurostar.com for prices in pounds and see which is best - you can book up to nine months in advance in the U.S. and be guaranteed the fare - not sure about eurostar.com but think not that far in advance. Anyway do not just show up as you may have to pay much more IME

ira

Hi NL,

When pricing your Railpass, you did consider that you might have to pay for mandatory reserved seats on some of the high-speed trains?

PalenQ

Of the countries Nessa says she is going to only France requires reservations - on TGV and CorailTEOZ trains - at 3 euros or about $4 a seat

No trains that the average person will ride in Germany, Benelux or Switzerland require them and you can just hop on - realizing the benefit of a railpass - just hop on any ole train - Thalys trains between Paris and Amsterdam however do require a more substantial reservation fee - about $15 i think in 2nd class - but except from Paris to Amsterdam direct you need not take the Thalys but other trains that don't (in Blegium and Holland only Thalys trains require reservations and indeed you cannot even make reservations on most other trains

So the cost for mandatory trains in you case is practically nil. And the Youth Eurailpass Select IMO is one of the best bargains in Europe - with your outlined planes IMO it is a no-brainer.

PalenQ

To be more specific - the only trains in Germany requiring seat reservations before boarding are ICESprinter trains (to my knowledge) that run at odd hours for business types i think largely between Frankfurt and Hamburg - you would rarely want to take one of these marginally faster trains (because they do not stop as much i think)

and in Switzerland no regular trains require reservations (and many won't even take them) are the so-called Scenic Specialty trains like the Glacier Express, Golden Pass, William Tell, Bernina Express, etc. - tourist oriented trains often with commentary and hostesses, etc. But there are always regular trains running these routes in slightly slower times (stopping at more stations) that you can just hop on.

DalaiLlama

You say " I'd rather travel with a railpass than buying tickets every time, so even if it would have been a little more expensive to have a railpass, I would probably still consider it. The peace of mind it gives me is well worth the price, IME."

That could be a fallacy - you have to stand in line to get your reserved seats on highspeed trains in many places - mandatorily - and of late we hear reports that there are not enough seats being set aside for passholders - passholders were refused travel on certain trains and, if they absolutely had to travel, were forced to buy full-fare tix.

So unless you trundle around on regional trains that don't require seat reservations, you cannot benefit from the pass by showing up at the last minute. So it saves you no time, and it may not save you money, either.

There was a time when having a Eurailpass was a sinecure - no worries, just hop on any train. No more.

PalenQ

nessa is however traveling only in Benenlux, Germany, Switzerland and Italy. No or nearly no trains in Benenlux, Germany or Switzerland require reservations and you can always just hop on - in France on TGVs and Corail TEOZ trains you must have reservations - usually easy to get with a passholder (French TGV trains are the only ones i know in europe where there is an allotment of pass holders per train - not a factor anywhere else TMK) and the problem in France is mainly on TGV lines to the south, esp Avignon and Nice - but even then you can always hop twice hourly TGVs to Lyon, then change to regional trains to Avignon or for Nice, TGV to Marseilles or Toulon and continue by regular trains where reservations are often nor required.

If going between Amsterdam and Paris the only direct trains are Thalys trains that require reservations AND a supplement for rail pass holders - at times 2nd class pass seats can be hard to get on the day of travel IME - but again if Amsterdam to Paris Thalys trains are full then take the about as fast IC trains from Amsterdam to Brussels then take the much more frequent Thalys Brussels-Paris trains. Or go via IC trains from Amsterdam to Antwerp and change to regional trains to Bruges (fabulous Bruges!) and then a regional train to Lille and then a French TGV to Paris - avoiding the Thalys all together and having just a simple 3 euro required TGV fee Lille-Paris (not hard to get, unlike TGV lines to the south IME).

Anyway a value of a pass also is that there are often more than one way to go between points A and B

Italy seems to have the most reservation required trains of any country. In Italy the faster trains the EuroStar Italia and InterCityp (Plus) trains require them but IC and regional do not. And you can nearly always take an alternate slower train that the faster ones.

For example from Florence to Venice last Feb there were only ES trains linking Florence SMN and Venice Santa Lucia stations - the main stations. But i did not want to pay for a reservation or really decide ahead of time and i took a shuttle train to Florence Rifredi, two miles out and just hopped on a direct IC train to Venice Mestre where again i took one of the frequent shuttle trains into Venice SLucia. The IC train was sparely full - i'd rather been on that than in the oft full Eurostar trains - took about an hour longer and stopped at more stations but to me that's fine as i love riding trains and stopping at more stations, etc.

So for nessa the railpass still offers its traditional attraction - hop on any train except some in Italy. And if a youthpass i have little doubt it will be a great deal if she/he is traveling as much as previewed.

DalaiLlama

"So for nessa the railpass still offers its traditional attraction - hop on any train except some in Italy."

This contradicts poster's own earlier statements - trains in France and Benelux requiring seat reservations (for a fee).

Yes, Germany and Switzerland do not, but that's three out of five countries OP visits and is mostly concerned about that do indeed require the reservations, making a pass less valuable.

So, nessa, do your sums - a pass may, just may, be indicated for you, but it is not a foregone conclusion that it will make you happier, practically or financially.

PalenQ

Belenux, France, Switzerland and Germany).

Oops my error in saying Italy - i meant to revise that part after realizing nessa was not going to Italy

So it is really only France where she has to reserve ahead - 3 euros or $4 to add to your pass cost for each TGV trips.

Thalys is the only train in Benenlux requiring reservations and you may well not take one - but if you do yes then add $15 or so for the reservation/supplement. It's the only train in Benelux requiring reservations.

PalenQ

I do agree with Dolly that one former benefit of a railpass - being able to hop on just any old train anytime is disappearing as european railways i think move to market pricing - various fares with advance purchases, etc. so that they now have a much higher seat capacity - not ferrying so many empty seats around and they sell those expected empty seats ahead of time online, etc. and make reservations required more and more.

But it depends on what countries still - the worst are Italy, Spain and Scandinavia in terms of mandated reservations whether or not the train is full. Italy, esp, where supplements are also imposed so that rides on high-speed trains cost 15 euros ($20-22) on top of the pass makes the Italian Railpass a non-starter for most Italian rail plans.

so far in other countries it's still just hop on - for the time being.

PalenQ

Update - RailEurope Eurostar special

for travel thru the end of Aug 2009 - $82 one way possible but book early (and also compare fares in pounds or euros at www.eurostar.com - can book with RailEurope or agents using them up to nine months in advance. $82 could be a very good fare for certain time periods.

thursdaysd

Definitely compare prices on different Eurostar sites! I booked Paris-London at senior rate last week, and it was significantly cheaper on eurostar.co.uk than on eurostar.com!

PalenQ

For one-way trips Senior fares are often not only the cheapest possible but also (at least ones bought in the U.S. say so) can be changed in Europe up until the time of the train (subject to seats being available on other trains in that categroy).

Ditto for Youth Fares and Pass Holder fares.

But for return journeys almost always the Leisure type fares would be better than paying the Senior rate each way.

but like thursdaysd says - always compare all possible sources.