crefloors

BE needs some serious kind of something..treatment? counceling? re-hab? If he's that bad now, especially the drinnking, he's in for a hard and not very happy life me thinks.

LoveItaly

Uhm,, baldworth, regarding the peed on bed. Did the hotel try to bill anyone for the ruined mattress?

I would sure not want to stay in a hotel where groups of students on a tour were staying, lol. Something to check into I guess before reserving a room. Something I have never thought about.

I agree with Crefloors, BE certainly will need some kind of treatment, what a shame, not a good way to start ones life.

Also baldworth, just out of curiosity. Say BE had acted up again. Wouldn't there be a cost involved with immediately flying him home? Do the parents sign an agreement that they will pay the additional cost? Does EF pay the additional cost up front and than bill the parents afterwards?

I ask as obviously the students (well everyone on the tour) would have roundtrip plane tickets. If a student is sent home before the tour is completed they would no doubt be put on a plane from the nearest airport..and who would be responsible for getting the unruly student to the airport and on the plane? I would think this would be a very expensive one way ticket. Anyway, just questions that were running through my head.

kswl

Reading this tale of travel and woe reminds me why I take my own kids to Europe.

AnthonyGA

There are tours and there are tours. Some groups behave, some don't. It's not impossible to find a group that won't urinate on the beds.

baldworth

Part of the agreement ahead of time is that anyone may be sent home for conduct unbecoming etc... The expense added would be your own eventually and the arrangements would be handled by the TD and the GL. It is all spelled out beforehand.

Yes, there was a charge for peeing on the bed but I don't know the details I was told that it was another bill paid by his GL for BE that hopefully would be reconciled when they all got back to NC.

I agree that you can find groups without people who pee on beds and break toilets and probably without those who break toes and buy 300 euro sunglasses but when you travel with another group you don't really know any of them beforehand. The last time I went we ran into a TD on the overnight train that was very tired of the antics of her group, and they were mostly adults! They wanted her to get them free tickets to Mt. Pilatus because they were bored in Lucerne! My friend and former TD from two years ago told me about a group he had that started in Amsterdam and all of the GL's wanted to go to a coffee shop the first night. When they got back most of the kids had either gotten tatoos or piercings in non visible places. What a way to start a tour!

I don't want you to feel sorry for me. I thouroughly enjoyed the trip even with all of the antics. I just thought that it was a tale worth telling. This is my first trip report because I believed that you guys would be interested considering some of the other reports that I have read on this forum. I received a lot of tips on the site, some very general that I have been collecting mentally for two years and some specific answers to questions about where to stay and budget flights etc...
This is my way of giving something back. Thanks, and I'll get to the next part as soon as I can.

Baldworth

BTilke

Baldworth, amen that adults in a group can be just as bad as kids. On my way back to Brussels from Vienna in March by train, everything was fine until I had to change trains in Cologne. I found mayself in a car full of drunk British IT guys who had completely trashed the car (from one of their luggage tags, I believe they were from the new business unit of a certain very large German electronics/engineering company). They were yelling, drinking heavily, puking in the restroom. They were bragging that their "leader" Alison, whoever she was, had never been with a group so embarrassing. One of them, nicknamed Shrek, proceeded to regale everyone in the car about the quality and odor of a dump he'd taken earlier. Then he also loudly proclaimed to one and all that he never took the train in the UK because "trains were for poor people."

This was in the first class car of an ICE train. The conductor was fuming, but also overwhelmed. Of course, the entire group wasn't acting up that way, but it wasn't just a few bad apples either.

katya_NY

Baldworth- my hat is still off to you! I think that the way we travel with my school is tricky as well, but we are not tied to any unknown groups, so it is a benefit. Of course, also not free of problems...

We have a policy as well that if something happens in the group and a child needs to be sent home early, the parents do have to pay for it. A few years ago when we had a drinking violation of our contract, we decided to keep the kids with us and not send the 5 home- and one parent actually requested that we send his child home!!

Luckily these things don't happen very often, but I am very impressed with your stamina and ability to maintain a positive (yet realistic) outlook about this travel.

Not every family is a traveling family, and for the kids you bring, it maybe their one memory of Europe... I think its a great service you are providing.

baldworth

Thank you all for the kind words. It may well be their only trip or it may be their first trip but it could also change their lives.

As far As BE goes, from an earlier post, I agree that he needs serious help and obviously has some sort of personality disorder to act the way that he did. I don't ever remember seeing a person change the way he did from sober to a little drinking unless they were bipolar. Who knows?

Baldworth

kerouac

I have encountered in my life 3 absolutely sweet human beings who turn into total monsters when they drink.

GirlScoutMom

Oh my gosh, I just started reading this great trip report and need to let everyone know, NOT ALL TEENS ARE LIKE THIS.... I have taken two groups in the past (2001-5 kids & 2004-9 kids). Of course they are all girls, that might help a bit, but I am VERY strict! Each girl and her parents sign a behavior contract and it spells out that any bad behavior will result in my taking that girl to the nearest airport and sending them home at mommy and daddy's expense. But I know all of these kids personally and their parents also. In Italy, I let them order wine at one dinner (most gagged at the taste) and they served wine on the boat part of our Paris bike ride (one girl "chugged" it and barfed). I haven't had but one real "bad" experience and that was the first trip when a 13 year old said she was sick and stayed at the hotel with her mom then went out on her own around London. We'd only had about a zillion talks about NEVER going out without a "buddy". I also FORCE each girl to wear a watch every day... no excuse for being late to anything. I guess I'm just mean, but you could send your kid with me and they'd have a safe, but good time. I think baldworth deserves a metal for putting up with these brats.

LoveItaly

Hello baldworth, I sure hope my questions didn't come across as finding fault with you..you have the patience of a saint IMO. You are obviously also a wonderful father.

I just asked the questions I did out of curiosity. Having been in the insurance industry for decades I sometimes find myself wondering about the business/economic end of things.

Your trip report is not only fun to read, it is interesting and informative. I am truly enjoying it..and I thank you for sharing this adventure with all of us.

baldworth

Day 17 -

The day continued after we left "Hotel Hell" and headed for the Alsace region of France. This is the most contested area of Europe beyond Poland over the last 150 years as it has been part of both France and Germany. Much of the architecture and language is German and there are many leftover German castles from the days of the Holy Roman Empire but you are in France, at least since 1945. We landed in Mulhouse in a small but very friendly hotel. It was such a pleasure to hear "No problem" whenever we asked for anything.

My room-mate, B, wnadered around and found a pub for the evening WC match and we expected a quiet evening. They reserved a table for us. Dinner wasn't bad considering we were eating in a cafeteria type place and thought we were very restricted when we went in. It turned out the selection of vegetables and potatoes etc to go with the chicken was pretty good. After dinner it was time to go to the pub and settle in.

The place was rocking when we arrived to watch Portugal and France play for the right to meet Italy in the final. They had an interesting drink, a draught beer with a shot of something that gave it a lemony taste. They called it something like Beku or Peku and wouldn't tell us what shot they added. I guess it was a trade secret. It was very tasty. The pub was hot and they put us right under the tv but some of us had a very good view of the game. Of course, France defeated Portugal after having defeated Brazil in the previous round and the entire place went nuts. We thought it was just the bar but when we emerged after the game you could hear the sounds of partying all around us. We walked to the city center where about 500 people had gathered and were watching two or three guys who had climbed up on a monument and were taking drinks and blowing fire through a lighter. Everywhere we went there were people hanging out of car windows, honking horns, and celebrating. Supposedly there was one girl wrapped in only a flag riding on the hood of a car through the center of town, but I didn't catch that one. When we got back to the hotel it was going strong with most of our kids joining in the celebration. The only way I can describe it is like a college football game atmosphere, only on a national scale. I had expected this in Rome or a place like Paris but not in the small towns like Mulhouse. On a makeshift balcony above the hotel entrance were my daughter and three or four of her friends waving a flag and yelling at the top of their lungs at the cars passing by. It turns out they had picked up a flag of the Netherlands but I don't think anyone noticed. After they cmae down from the roof one of the French partiers was trying to communicate and since I was the only one with any French experience, I was doing my best to translate. He was so taken that he stopped hugging the girls and kissed me on both cheeks. It was both quite a shock and very touching. We finally got to bed about 1:00 when the revelry started to die down. What a day! No incidents since leaving the hotel in Switzerland and a national party in Mulhouse, France. The next day we were headed for Colmar and Strasbourg before going across the country to Paris

baldworth

LoveItaly, no I didn't think anything of the sort. I am glad you are enjoying my trip report and hope that I am answering the questions as they come. If I have not please let me know. I really appreciate this forum and all of the help that people offer. There are many of you I would like to meet but as my wife is not into traveling YET, I probably won't make any of the get-togethers for a while. Thanks for the good will.

Baldworth

baldworth

Day 18 -

We actually got out to the bus before the early birds and I managed to get seats in the front again for my crew. We left Mulhouse and got to Colmar for an hour or so. From there we went to Strasbourg where we had a city guide that reminded me of Julia Child or Dan Akroyd impersonating Julia Child on Saturday Night Live years ago. Everything she said she tried to say three different ways and still mispronounced most of them in a shrill, high-pitched voice. Strasbourg was beuatiful and a place I would like to return to. The Cathedral was gothic and quite amazing with a clock that measured days, seasons, and astronomical signs by moving figures. Awesome place. On the way to Paris we passed many more castles from the Holy Roman Emperor period as well as Verdunne a WWI battle sight.

Another note about the dq; when we left Switzerland the day before I was hearing a movie that was familiar and looked over to see a portable dvd player with "The Notebook" playing louder than it should be as we rode through and out of the Swiss Alps. All of this scenery and she's watching a familiar dvd. I asked her to turn it down and she put on headphones without a verbal response. Typical.

We arrived in Paris in the late afternoon/early evening and finally said goodbye to our bus and driver, Geoff, before dinner. He had been consistent, dependable, humorous, and a very good driver. Our dinner was decent and we took the RER back home after wandering around Paris for awhile. Our wandering took us to Montmarte and even though it was cloudy it was well worth being up above most of the city at Sacre Couer. There was a jazz group playing near Place Du Tetre and the feel of the artsy neighborhood was there. We knew we were in Paris.

WE had gotten to our hotel later than planned and had to put the luggage in a room until we got back from dinner in order to make it on time. Getting it out and getting into rooms at 11:00 was very interesting. We were not in the hotel we had originally been expected to be in but were a little closer than expected to the city center. We were just past the new archway at La Defense with reasonable access to the subway and most of Paris. This was the first place where we were dependent on the metro since London in order to get from place to place and it was nice to get back to. The subway in Paris is really easy to navigate although the RER and how it connects still confuses me. I felt very comfortable being back in Paris for the third time in three years. We actually slept with the windows open wide because it had cooled off and was cloudy and we had an interior facing window. It was a good night's sleep.

LCBoniti

Paris for the third time in three years!!!!

Maybe I should look into taking high school kids to Europe after all!

baldworth

Day 19 -

Waking up in Paris is always great. The breakfast room held about 15 people but we managed to find places to sit in the lobby and meet an EF group from Canada and New Jersey. They were headed home after Paris and had enjoyed their trip quite a lot. We were scheduled to leave at 9:00 and meet our guide at Notre Dame. At 8:30 I was summoned to the front desk for a phone call. I was taken aback! It was 8:30 Paris time and all of the people I knew who might be calling me were in Georgia where it was 2:30 am. They wouldn't be calling me unless there was something bad wrong. I picked up the phone with much trepidation and said hello. The voice on the other end was very British and very familiar. It was Jonny, our TD and he was locked in his room. He wasn't sure if they were going to be able to get his door unlocked before we were scheduled to leave on a bus for the city center. He wanted me to make sure that everyone got on the bus and got to the meeting site on time so that we didn't miss our tour. I wonder why he called me?

It turned out not to matter a he got out in about fifteen minutes and our bus was 40 minutes late arriving. WE were actually leaving to take the RER to the city when the bus pulled up. We were late but still managed a very good tour of Notre Dame and Paris with a very good city guide. Each one seems to have their own take on the city and each of the three I have toured with showed me different things. Very good. We were through by lunch time and on our own for the afternoon.

I led a group of nine to have lunch in the Latin Quarter at a place recommended from a list of Creperies I got from Beatchick. The place is The Creperie Des Arts and somehow I walked directly to it without any directions, only my memory from last year. They were full and we had to wait for a group of 9 to be seated. The crepes were excellent again and we proceeded to our next site, Le Jardin Du Luxembourg. It was a very beautiful park and we relaxed beside the lake for a while.

After the Luxembourg Gardens we left for The Musee Dorsay for an immersion in Impressionism. We spent about an hour and a half wandering through paintings by Monet, Van Gogh, Cezannes, La Trec, etc... and enjoyed it thoroughly. It also rained just as we walked into the museum so we missed it altogether. From there we walked past the Louvre to the Paris Opera House (Garnier) for some pictures. Did I mention that we were walking all the way? It was good excercise. We then needed to get to the area around the Pompidou Center to meet our group for dinner. We were right on time. Dinner was Flams, kind of an Alsatian pizza. These are very thin and can be covered with a variey of toppings, including chocolate or cinnamon. DQ was holding court in the back room, very loud and running some of the others out to the front for relief. She just didn't seem to get it that this trip was not about her. Some of them actually left before the dessert Flams came out. What a shame!

After dinner we headed for the metro and Trocadero. Trocadero is a great way to approach the Eiffel Tower as it affords a great view and get you as close as any other way. The majority of the group was signed up for a Paris Evening including a ride on the Seine and a trip up the Eiffel Tower. Sam and I had already done both of these and no one else seemed to be interested so we, plus J who had started hanging out with us since Switzerland, stayed at the bottom of the tower. It began to rain, and got harder and harder. We eventually got up against a vendor's truck and managed to sty dry on about maybe 105 of our bodies. We had a lot of fun although L fell and bruised herself and wasn't happy with anything the rest of the evening. We wandered and found a cafe after the storm, sat in the wrong section to suit the waitress, got a dose of the famous "French attitude", and I looked for the Rue Cler. Not finding it quickly and not wanting to hold up the rest of the group we walked back to the Eiffel Tower. L, R, ST, and N wanted to go back to the hotel but S, J, and I wanted to see some of Paris at night. I tried to give them the best directions I could but ended up sending them to an RER station that went outside of the city instead of around the city and home. They did find their way but some weren't happy with me the next day. They had to use their wits instead of relying on me after 2 and a half weeks. S, J, and I went to the Seine and visited some of our favorite bridges before heading back to the hotel about 11:00. We shared some cheese and wine in the lobby with the other group leaders when we got back and went to bed. We still had another day in Paris because our overnight train didn't leave until 7:00 the next evening. We had the Louvre, Pere LaChaise, and other sights to still look forward to.

Baldworth

LadyOLeisure

I'm enjoying this SO much! No way would I take on a task like this one. Thank goodness my kids are grown now (DD happens to be in Madrid as I type) In some ways it is like watching a train wreck, but then it is travel, it is Europe and it is a whole different perspective! Someday you and Mrs Baldworth will have an extraordinary independent trip to Europe that is likely to hit places you'd never go with a gang like this one...but I'm willing to bet you will hit some of the spots and remember the stories....
Bravo!

baldworth

Day 20 -

No door problems to deal with. When we went to the Louvre we had to act like we were not together as a group even though the tickets were bought en masse. When we got inside I got my five together for about one minute to agree on a meeting place and time and the guard got nervous and asked us to disperse. I don't know why they are this way now but you just go with the flow, especially in Paris. We tried to see things that we hadn't seen on the last two trips this time and it made it more enjoyable. The Louvre can be overwhelming if you don't pick out particular things, rooms, or areas you want to see.

When we were done we decided to go to Pere Lachaise cemetery which is where Jim Morrison, Chopin, Sara Bernhart, and most importantly to R Oscar Wilde is buried. S and I had been two years ago because we had a student who was enraptured with Morrison at the time and I had always been curious about the gravesite as well. I also decided to do something different. I pointed out where the cemetery was and S, R, and I looked at the map and they decided which subway line to get there and which one back to where we wanted to go next, etc... R had gotten them back to the hotel the previous night and she was ready to navigate. My daughter S had figured out the buses in Rome and was always there if I was lost or confused. Her time would come later in Barcelona but that is another story. R needed to branch out and feel like she was leading the way and I could relax and enjoy the ride. Paris is a good city to do this in as the metro system is color coded and fairly easy to deal with. We went to the correct stop, got off, and ate some oriental food before proceeding to the cemetery. Again, we had J and her friend H along for the trip. We got a map and then let the girls figure out different parts of the cemetery and how to get from one grave to another. We took several pictures of R at Oscar's gravesite , which is covered with lipstick marks from thousands of fans by the way, and then let J get us around the lanes to Chopin and Morrison. They moved Morrison's actual remains a few years ago but it is still highly visited and there is usually a guard standing by to make sure nothing unsightly happens. After about an hour and a half we moved on to get back towards the city center.

We took the metro back to the Arc de Triomphe area at Place Charles De Gaule and lost a couple of our entourage. The rest of us wanted to wander down the Champs Elysee and see the Place de la Concorde where the executions took place during the French Revolution, an Egyptian obelisk stands that was basically stolen from Egypt during Napoleon's time I believe, and there are very neat fountains with green figures resembling Greek gods and godesses. From there it was time to head back toward the La Defense area and our hotel in order to prepare for the overnight train ride to Madrid.

There were several problems facing us as we headed out to the train station. We were going to be eating a fast food packaged meal in the station, the train ride was very long lasting until about 10:00 the next morning, we wouldn't have a chance to clean up or shower until we got to our hotel much later in the next day at Madrid, and the last time we were packed six to a room with no dining car or place to sit and just socialize. I had much trepidation about this part of the trip. Our meal was actually very good even though it was a sandwich. We only had four people to a room this time instead of six and the beds actually folded up so that you could sit in the room without feeling cramped. We had also managed to set up a room with my only male group member N, B, and Jonny the TD, and myself. During the day in Paris we had managed to collect three bottles of wine, several bagettes of bread, salamis, cheese, and a few other tidbits such as Frangelico that we didn't even know Jonny had bought. The room turned into a party from about 7:30 or 8:00 until midnight and we also knew where everybody was as we sat and told stories from the trip and shared the wine with about ten to fifteen people at different times. When we finally broke everything up about 12:00 it was easy to sleep and not so stuffed into a room that I felt instead of the way it had been two years before.

When we woke up the next morning we were greeted with a decent breakfast for again a package deal and then Jonny and I proceeded to find the car with coffee, etc... which was ten cars away. I had offered to buy as he had forgottten his money in the room but the conductor came by and told us it was on the house. Very good coffee! By the time it was time for another cup he had his money and bought the second round. My daughter showed up and the only thing I ended up paying for was her hot chocolate. Life was good. We got to the station, collected our baggage, and proceeded to find our Madrid city guide and bus driver. It was a shock to some of the kids when they actually realized they weren't going to get a shower until the afternoon but as the day progressed they got over it.

Next, our first day in Madrid.

baldworth

Day 21 -

Our first full day in Madrid after arriving by overnight train. We proceeded to the Royal Palace for a tour after we rode around the city. The Royal Palace was quite exceptional with many different rooms similar in nature to Versailles. It is used now for state dinners and other major receptions and otherwise for tours. After lunch and finishing the tour we actually got to check into our rooms early and nap and shower. Our hotel was across from the train station in a fairly central location close to several museums and Retiro Park and again was large enough to include more than one EF group and many other patrons. The rooms were air conditioned and not as tiny as some. After some sleep we met for a visit to the Prado which was in walking distance. There was a Picasso exhibit but it had a separate entrance and we didn't want to wait that long. I think some of the kids snuck over while we were inside but I don't do things like that. The museum was full of works by many of Europe's best including most Spanish artists but also Van Gogh, Raphael, and many others I didn't expect to see. Also, you could take pictures of most of the paintings. It was probably the most impressive collection of paintings I had witnessed. It made for agreat afternoon and led into the evening which featured the World Cup Final between Italy and France. Once again while we were wandering around seeing sights B had found a place for many of us to watch the night's game in a local pub or bar. This place was called Naturebier and featured taps actually in the center of the table which were accounted for by the computer and showed on a screen by table above. Also, the beer was very good. We had a good time in comfortable surroundings with the locals, several Italians, and us rooting on the Italians. It was a very good night and a great way to finish off the WC and most of our trip. We walked back to our hotel and got back about midnight. Things were calm.

baldworth

Day 22 had us in Madrid with a largely free day due to no scheduled events and it being the last day of the trip. Several of us wanted to just relax and were largely museumed out so we decided to walk to Retiro Park and spend some time relaxing near the lake. They had boats to row around the lake, fountains, and other sights to see. We were largely tired and low on money so we relished the chill out day next to a cool lake in a very hot city. The prices were a great relief in Madrid after Paris where it has gotten even more expensive over the last two years. I actually ordered a caraffe of wine at a restuarant two doors down from the hotel and paid two euros for what amounted to four or five glasses of wine!

On this day we had a late lunch and wandered to our meeting place early to do a little shopping before our last dinner in Madrid. We were eating at a restuarant on the Plaza Mayor and the plans for afterward were very loose considering it was our last evening. My daughter and a few others wanted to find a place that served the really thick hot chocolate with the dipping sticks called churos but we all went to a pub nearby first. I had decided not to drink very much this night due to the fact that we had to get up at 3:00 and leave at 4:00 in order to get to the airport by 5:00 for flights that left between 6:00 and 6:30. N owed me a couple of beers from the previous night at Naturebier and those went away in an hour or so. I asked the TD in passing if he had ever heard of Dram Bouie which was a liqueur that I happened to see a bottle of behind the bar. He immediatly ordered three shots, one for each of us including B, and we drank those. Now you have to understand that shots in many bars in Europe were not measured out in shot glasses like what we are used to. These were more like three ounces and worked on me quickly. Everyone was spending the last night saying goodbyes and enjoying the company of thise they wouldn't see again for a while or maybe ever. I think Jonny, our TD, was showing his appreciation for the two GL's that had done their best not to give him any grief or headaches during the trip and so he began to buy us beers. Every time that I left to go to the bathroom I returned to find a full, fresh beer at my place. I didn't want to appear rude or ungrateful so I proceeded to drink a lot more than I had intended. We left the bar about 12:00 and stumbled back to our hotel where I got about an hour and a half of sleep before the alarm went off and it was time to get up, pack, and board the bus for the airport. When I began making my rounds to make sure everyone was awake and getting ready as I did every morning who did I happen to run into in the stairwell? Why none other than our resident problem child BE who had obviously partaken in the last night's drinking, something that hadn't happened since Switzerland and his ban. He was loud and raving and it was 3:30 in the morning and I was still feeling the effects of the nights drinking. Actually I was still quite tipsy and didn't feel like I had slept at all. I told him to quiet down and he proceeded to tell me to F off. I was in no mood for it so I told him what he could do with himself and went on with my business. We all got down to the bus as all but one group had to get to the airport and even they were downstairs saying goodbyes to those leaving, including their favorite Captain Douchebag, which they were yelling out at the top of their lungs. The same kids made it a point to come and thank me for making their trip a lot of fun so it made me feel good. About this time as we are getting ready to leave, BE comes up to me looking very sheepish and offers what appeared to be a heartfelt apology. I accepted his offering and told him that what he really needed to do was to get some help after he got home. I think he finally realized that I hadn't done anything to him on the entire trip and I didn't deserve this kind of treatment on the last morning. The bus left the hotel and most everyone got off at the same terminal. We however were going to a different terminal where our extended trip would begin. ST went with the others because she had signed up late and couldn't then arrange to change the return flight. Five of us got on a plane to Barcelona and a new adventure. Our EF trip was over except for the return flight from Hamburg six days later. The rest is another story and really doesn't relate to the EF portion. Let me suffice it tio say that we managed to get overbooked on the flight from Copenhagen, Denmark to Washington D.C., got bumped from the flight, couldn't get another flight that day, were sent to Stockholm for the night and put up in a Radisson Inn owned by the airline, flew home via Newark the next day, and didn't receive our luggage for five days afterward. I may teel the rest of the tale later but at least for now this story is told and I have it dwon on paper so I won't ever be able to forget the details. I hope you guys who have followed along as I told it have enjoyed my tale and the opportunity for me to write my first trip report. I hope in some way it repays you for all of the help and advice I have received. Thanks to LoveItaly, Robespierre, LaClaire, BeatChick, Rex, Budman, and many others that are too numerous to mention for all of the tips and immediate responses to my queries. Thanks to LCBoniti, Shuler, Anthony, Ira, Janisi, katya NY, gforaker, crefloors, Michelle NY, BTilke, kerouac, MarkvonKramer, mollie, kswl, GirlScoutMom, LadyOLeisure, and anyone else who stuck with me all the way through fro your comments and questions. I really hope you enjoyed it.

Baldworth