Multi country/city planning
 

Hi,this is my first post on this forum. We are a couple of seasoned travellers...i’m planning a 20/25 days trip in end May-June & would appreciate some help in multi country planning as for the last few years we’ve been just concentrating on one country at a time.
I’m looking at Prague,Budapest,Croatia & Slovenia with possible day trips from Dubrovnik to Mostar & Montenegro. In Prague & Budapest,I’m thinking 4 days each with the rest of the days split between Slovenia & Croatia.We’ve been to Austria so I’m looking into an open jaw ticket, I.e. flying into one country & exiting out of another. Would it make sense to fly into Prague & leaving from Croatia/Slovenia or the other way around ? Also would a day trip to Bratislava from Budapest be too ambitious??
For transportation between the countries we are open to flights/trains.In Slovenia & Croatia we are either going to drive or take public transportation.Would be lovely if I could get some recommendations about the places to visit apart from Dubrovnik, Split,Plitvice Lakes,Bled etc. We like art,art,history ,nature,landscape in short everything. So it becomes very difficult to pick& choose.
Any advice will be extremely helpful....thanks in advance.

Even with 20 to 25 days, I think you will need to make some very difficult decisions about what to see and what to skip. Just as one example, I found it very difficult to see what I wanted to see in Croatia alone in just 3 weeks. I would strongly encourage you to spend some time with good guidebooks to decide what you want to see and experience; for Croatia and Slovenia, I found the Rough Guide particularly helpful.

Yes, fly open jaw. Use rome2rio.com to get an idea of your transportation options.

May into June is a lovely time to explore the area.

"Also would a day trip to Bratislava from Budapest be too ambitious??"

Day trips to Bratislava from Vienna (which is closer than the proposed trip from Budapest) tend to be a hot topic here. In one day you'll be able to see most of the typical sights but not really get a sense of the city; an overnight might enhance your perspective, especially in the warmer months when the restaurants have outdoor tables and everyone is out and about. Perhaps consider stopping over in Bratislava on your way to Budapest? Otherwise, you will spend 8 hours traveling between Prague and Budapest, only to backtrack 4 hours to/from Bratislava.

You really don't need a car in Prague, Bratislava, or Budapest. Our first objective whenever we visit is to park our vehicle in a garage, not to be moved until departure day. Trains run well between these destinations.

When we visited Dubrovnik we spent the better part of one day on Lokrum Island. Personally, we enjoyed the island more than walking the city wall, but we might be the exception. We also took a day trip (rental vehicle) to Kotor and Perast, and loved both for the architecture, scenery, and food.

Train info: www.bahn.de/en - German railways all-European train schedules - www.ricksteves.com; BETS-European Rail Experts and www.seat61.com.

I can't answer most of your questions but we were in Budapest and Bratislava last winter and took the train from Budapest to Bratislava and spent the night (and most of two days). We loved it and wished we'd left Budapest a lot sooner to spend more time there. The train ride along the Danube was lovely, and the guy behind the bar car counter was even wearing a toque! Yes, details impress me. Anyway, contrary to the impressions/opinions of many on Fodors, we found Budapest grim and sullen and lackluster and unappealing (except for the main market and the synagogue) and Bratislava just a wealth of beauty, history, and artistry.

Thanks to all !
​​​​​​​Fourfortravel,I meant to write a day trip from Prague not Budapest but your suggestion makes sense & it would be better to overnight in Bratislava & then move on to Budapest. Will 4 days each in Prague & Budapest be sufficient with an overnight in Bratislava. Any additional information on Croatia/Slovenia will be very helpful.

@ Rumpa,
Your plan for Bratislava as a day trip from Budapest is more than enough, but even you skip it at all, you won’t regret a second. From Prague it takes much longer and I would never ever think of overnighting there.

I always admire StCirq’s Budapest’s description: “grim and sullen and lackluster and unappealing”.

He takes every single chance to stab the Hungarian capital, but I don't blame him cause I also have a few cities I wouldn't visit for a second time even if the trip would be payed for by someone else.
The only “tiny” problem when comparing Budapest to Bratislava that would be something like comparing Oxford to London or Den Haag (The Hague) to Amsterdam or even worse, like Paris to a SINGLE Louvre Castle, which would be an absolute nonsense.
Actually it’s not a big deal because he or she is probably one of that dozen or so visitors out of those 30-50 million people who have visited Budapest in the last 25 years and left with very sad feelings. It’s just enormously funny to read such comments because on another (much, much more active and bigger) travel forum Bratislava mostly is not advised at all in order to save precious travel time for much more interesting places, especially if you have only a few days for this part of the world. Yes It was our capital for almost 300 years, but that's probably so much about it.
You can do Bratislava in a matter of few hours, its historical center is one the TINIEST among European capitals. The rest of the city is ugly communist built gray blocks of flats.
Usually we visit it for 1-3 hours when I am doing a transfer or day trip to Vienna and 110% of my customers EXTREMELY happy of those couple of hours spent there, admitting that it was just well enough for those few sites to visit.
On the contrary Budapest needs at least 3-4 days, better a week. Zillions of people (former tourists) coming now to Budapest for their 5-10th time in a row and staying here for months!!!


I even had a late customer who used to visit Budapest for almost 20 years since 1991!!! Twice a year, every single end of April and early October. Each visit a whole week.

Concerning Croatia will try to add more details tomorrow. But being there tons of times since 1992 (92-94 were the most beautiful times spent over there) nowadays I would definitely opt for Montenegro. It still has something from the former old school times, while Croatia is EXTREMELY commercialized in the last 15 years and has one of the worst quality/service/price ratios if we can call it like that. You can fly from Budapest to Montenegro and Dubrovnik is just a short hop from the Kotor Bay. Actually Budva in Montenegro is something like a mini Dubrovnik but with 100 times less tourists, especially for your travel dates.

The different opinions here show that NONE of us can tell you what you should see -- no matter how much or little they write. I really enjoyed Budapest, others find it lacking; some people enjoy multiple days in Bratislava; some find a few hours enough; some of us were satisfied with a day trip to Kotor; others think Montenegro is preferable to Croatia....

Bottom line: You really need to do your own research, which -- as experienced travelers -- I'm sure you already know.

But some of us might still be able to help if we know a bit more about what you want from this trip. You stated your interests (thank you), but as you note, "We like art,art,history ,nature,landscape in short everything". But what, exactly, does that mean? Examples: Do you want to see how nearby areas interpreted similar architectural styles differently? Or do you want to see truly different architectural styles? Would a trip be somehow incomplete if it did not include exposure to world-class art (however you define that) or are you seeking to include opportunities to see styles of art that aren't usually counted among the world's greatest genres?

In case you don't know them, here are a couple of essential research tools for a trip involving so much moving arouind:
www.skyscanner.com for budget one-way air flights.

www,seat61. for all rail travel.

Why a day trip to Montenegro? Just adding another country to your list? I'd use that day to put my feet up -- in the highly scenic port city of Dubrovnik.

check out boats that ply the Croatian coast and let you get to such neat places as the islands like Hvar.

Thanks everyone...we are doing a multi trip like this after a long time therefore still wondering whether to attempt it or drop a few places.

StCirq....still looking at transport options & time is always of essence. Still would like to visit Bratislava as its enroute from Prague to Budapest.

okszi, enjoyed your detailed description...would really appreciate some Croatia details. I'm planning to fly from Budapest to Ljubljana rent a car for a few days, take public transport to maybe Zagreb,rent a car there & end our trip with Dubrovnik. We'll fly back from there.

Southam, Montegro has been on my wishlist...going so near & not visiting will be sad. I'm leaving it open if we've the energy then we'll go.

PalenQ i'll have to really shortlist what we can see & enjoy without rushing around in a frenzy to tick things off a list. Also have to be careful not to visit similar places. hence the feedback :)

kja, yes i know everyone has different opinions & perspectives, like i didn't love Buenos Aires as much as some & i felt we stayed way to long there in hindsight but it always helps to get some feedback. Every country has different styles of architecture, something that makes it uniquely their own. And we do try to visit a couple of museums in whichever city we happen to be in.

@Rumpa,
An update on Bratislava.
On Friday I had a Russian client who stayed in Budapest for 4 days. On his last day he had to check out at 11 and his flight was almost at midnight, so he decided to have a n overlay-day trip to Bratislava. This town was anyway at his agenda, he has been to Prague 5 times and 7 times in Vienna but always missed it for some reason.
After this day visit he (as tons of people before him) admitted that while it was not bad, but missing it altogether wouldn't be a big thing to say the least.
So here comes the most important piece of information for you:
We left the Shopping center's parking lot, where I always leave my car at 1:58 pm.
We went downtown (5-7 minutes walk), visited all main sites, climbed to the Castle (by the way a BRAND NEW building, that was completely destroyed by fire in 1811 and never been restored up to the 1960-s!!!), on the way back even visited one of the most beautiful Hungarian churches the Blue Church.
Yes, I have to stress Hungarian, because ABSOLUTELY everything historical and architecturally important in Bratislava (POZSONY in Hungarian language)has been built by the Hungarians or the Austrian empire.
There is even a joke, that POZSONY is an 11 hundred years old city, while Bratislava is only 90:))
We came back to the mall and left the parking lot at 3:51 pm. So it was LESS than 3 hours to visit almost everything, had a coffee break and stop for multiple photo sessions. My client was extremely keen on taking pictures, without those very frequent stops we would probably finish in 2 hours. having been to Czech republic 5 times and having not been impressed by Czech-Slovak cuisine, my client decided to head back to Hungary and have a meal over there, hence is the absence of a lunch break in Bratislava.
All in all even if you throw in the TV (for the views) and the Radio (for very unusual architecture: a pyramid shaped structure turned upside down!) towers and stop for a lunch, you can still get over it all in less than 5 hours.
In case you'll be driven to Budapest or will have a rent a car, I still would recommend skipping it for good and instead visit the Valtice-Mikulov area at the Czech-Slovak border:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lednic...ural_Landscape
You will be rewarded by a ZILLION times more interesting and fascinating historical area.
Also BRNO is an excellent option as well. Many, many people rival its beauty to Prague, but without the embarrassingly terrible tourist hordes!!!

@Rumpa,
OK, now its Croatia time:)
So you are going to rent a car both in Slovenia and Croatia, correct?
That's an excellent choice. If you are going to stay in Ljubljana, you can cover all the most important sites from there very comfortably. Bled lake, Bohinj, Postojna caves, Maribor, Piran, Koper, Trglav national park are within 1-2 hours of driving. Very easily accessible and zillion times faster than by any public transportation. Probably the farthest you go (2-2,5 hours) is the Soca valley for rafting or canyoning. Considered one of the most beautiful rivers in Europe.
https://www.slovenia.info/en/places-...ns/soca-valley
https://www.dolina-soce.com/en/valle...rst_world_war/
I would even squeeze a day trip to Trieste/Miramare castle in Italy, less than 2 hours drive from Ljubljana.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miramare_Castle
Who knows if you are not going to visit that part of the planet anymore that would be an excellent chance to see the most "non" Italian town along with a gorgeous castle of the last Mexican emperor Maximilian of Austria.
After moving to Zagreb (sorry, but my knowledge of public transportation is close to nothing) and having another rental I would start with something like that:
First drive to Rovinj (Istrian peninsula)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovinj
beautiful little town, visit the nearby Limski zaljev (fjord), where you can taste one of the best oysters in Europe, then on to Pula (magnificent Roman amphitheater)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pula
follow on to Moscenicka Draga, the most scenic route ( guess what: route number 66!!! :) ) starts from there all along the coast to Opatija/Abbazia (former Hapsburg empire's probably number one sea-side resort). Consider staying a night for the atmosphere. Then take a bridge to the most easily accessible Croatian island of KRK.
The Island of Krk Tourist Board
Very fortunately neglected by many foreign tourists (mostly holiday makers flood it in the summer) and at the same time one of the hidden gems of Croatia. Visit the towns of Krk, Vrbnik (breathtaking ancient little town), picturesque islet of Kosljun with a nice little monastery, Glavotok on the western tip with another nice monastery, some of the best olive groves in Croatia, etc. etc.
From Krk take the ferry to the island of Rab. Visit the town of Rab
town Rab, Arbe, Arbia, FELIX ARBA, medieval town, romanesque architecture
and drive along the island which is unique in Croatia for mostly having sandy beaches! Then take a ferry to Jablanica/Stinica (https://www.putovnica.net/en/transpo...rk-jadrolinija). VISIT!!! the nearby little Zavratnica fjord, a lunch in Jablanica and off you go for the Plitvice Lakes Nat.Park (your timing is perfect its the best in Spring very early summer. Sometimes in late summer the water is almost trickling). If you arrive late in the afternoon you can visit part of the park and stay overnight over there. Be among the first visitors in the morning, before the EMBARRASSING number of coach tours (AKA Hordes) arrive. They open at 8:00 am. I definitely recommend starting at that time!!! One day pass in May/June 20 Euros versus 33 Euro/2 day pass.
From Plitvica drive to Zadar and from there start the usual (typically touristy) route to Dubrovnik.
DON'T even waste your money for the disgustingly overpriced Super Highway A1. Instead drive along the coast on the old Jadranska Magistrala route. Old National route Number 8. One of the most scenic coastal routes in the world!!! Expect heavy traffic though on the week-ends. From Dubrovnik I DEFINITELY would recommend a day ot 2 trip to Montenegro or Bosnia or both. Mostar, Herceg-Novi, Kotor Bay Drive along the bay one way and take the ferry coming back.
All in all this will help you getting the view of Croatia that is not exterminated (well at least some 20-30% still available from the old charm) by the MASS tourism to that country since the early 70th. The only spotless non-tourist times were between 92-96 during the war in Yugoslavia.
I remember back in 93 there were 3 of us in that little beautiful fjord in Zavratnica, NOT a single person else. Nowadays during season there are probably more boats per square feet than in Miami cruise harbor. They even charge some entrance fee to the bay in the summer!
Hope it helped a bit:)

I've been to many of the places okszi mentions. I would not have described them in the same way, nor would I make the same recommendations. Again, people have different experiences and perspectives and only the OP can decide what to include.

Thanks okzi & kja,

I've decided to ditch Prague/Budapest this time,rather utilise my valuable 25 days in Croatia/Slovenia & a bit of Bosnia & Montenegro if we can manage. I'm working on an itinerary & am just going to post it on a separate thread for your valuable advice.
​​​​​​​Would really appreciate some feedback.