chevre

The one thing that holds me back from moving a few years to France is leaving my dog behind, even with a trusted friend. She is a young lab. My question is about the trip itself. From start to finish she would be in a crate for about 12 hours. That is an awfully long time. Have any of you done this? Would you recommend doing the trip in two legs say to New York, over night and then on to Europe? And would you recommend sedating the dog?

kerouac

There are special sedatives to give to animals for this kind of trip. I'm sure it is the most humane thing to do. And it's only 12 hours, not 12 days!

jdc26

I'm so glad that you posted this question and am looking forward to the responses as I too have considered moving to Europe one day but am reluctant because (1) don't want to leave my dog behind and (2) concern about the length of the Trans Atlantic flight and having him crated/sedated for so long. I understand Kerouac's statement that "it's only 12 hours, not 12 days!", but still don't make me feel any better about it.

jdc

Carlux

I just posted this about taking two cats to France on another thread by someone who took hers to Italy. I think you need to talk to your vet rather than anyone here. I would have thought it was better to sedate our cats, and couldn't believe that they could go for almost 24 hours without food and water, but we did what she recommended and it was fine:

We brought TWO cats to France, admittedly 14 years ago, and they didn't need cat passports, chips etc. But we did get all the right papers, checks less than 10 days before, etc. No sedation, virtually nothing to eat or drink the day we left.

Cats went into their cages hours before we left, so they wouldn't get lost in the confusion. Off to the airport, where I'm sure we were overweight, but everyone was so amazed to find two cats, no one paid any attention to our other luggage.

Our cats travelled from Toronto to Paris in the hold, emerged on a luggage cart beside the elevator, looking a little stunned, but none the worse for wear. We pulled out our papers, had a look around, no one cared, so we put them on OUR luggage cart and walked out. No one ever asked about the papers. We had a taxi ride to the train station, 4 hours to wait, 5 hours on the train, taxi to our house (luckily we had already bought a house, and so didn't have to start looking for somewhere that accepted cats.)We figure they were in their cages at least 24 hours, without food and water for longer than that(on our vet's advice) No side effects, no problems - she said they just go into a kind of suspended animation, pretending they are anywhere else but on this horrific voyage, and basically shout down. It seemed to work.

Everyone had told us they should stay inside for at least two weeks so that they got used to the new house. However, having taken them away on vacation a few times, we knew they really only cared about where dinner was served, and that immediately became home. So they got dinner, had a sleep, next day decided they really lived in France now, and continued to do so happily for many years. Never did learn to speak French though.

hetismij

I can't answer about sedation - I know people who have done it with and without, and their dogs have been fine. Some dogs do not react well to sedatives.
Spend time getting her used to the travel crate so that she is really happy in it. If you can break the journey in New York it may be a good idea, if you are unable get a direct flight.
Make sure your dog meets all the legal requirements for import into Europe - chipped, immunised etc etc. Check with your vet for what they feel is best regarding sedation, and for the necessary preparations to import your dog.
Also check how much it will cost to fly her to Europe - some airlines charge more than others, some do not allow animals at all.

Sarvowinner

We brought two dogs (corgis) from Australia to Canada on different occasions. There was no problems tho the first one got diverted via New York and travelled for almost 48 hrs - this was 1969. They had water bottles in their cages. We were told they were taken out during plane changes.

The first one got to our house and we were so caught up with hugging him at the reunion. He finally let loose on the lino - I've never seen so much wee. He was so embarrassed. Other than never allowing us to leave him in strange places (which was probably due to us leaving him in Australia for 4 months with my grand mother), he was fine.

In fact, he travelled all over North America with us - Ensenada, Vancouver Island, PEI, South Carolina, Yellowstone.

The joy your dog will get from being with you, far outweighs the flying time.

Born2Fly

I understand your concern, I am considering moving, but would have three cats in tow. In trying to look for what options there are, I found several Pet Moving companies, who take care of all the paper requirements etc. I have not begun getting any quotes, but I think that might be an option I would consider as they deal with the paperwork on a daily basis and I would hate to try to do it all myself and then get somehow held up at my arrival airport.
Definitely follow up with your vet. Someone I know recently moved with her cat and she was told that sedation was not a good idea. (And going back to the paperwork, I know she spent about three frantic days going from one place to another to get everything squared away). I think there are more challenges now to traveling that there were even just a few years ago. No need to name the obvious reasons, but also in Europe almost all animals are chipped whereas here that is not necessarily the case. In looking at a move to Britain for example, there are several time sensitive requirements that have to be met for the animal to avoid the quarantine. Britain is stricter than main-land Europe, but it wouldn't hurt to ask experts. Let us know it goes!

kerouac

Sedation is often recommended for larger animals that might injure themselves if going into some sort of panic, not the small ones.

stanleys

Have you considered taking a boat to Europe?

flanneruk

Here's how I'd handle it.

Some Cunard ships carry pets across the Atlantic in owner-accessible kennels, with a dedicated pets' exercise area where owners can play with the animals.

I think all voyages call at Southampton: not sure how many call at Le Havre. There is little (if any) difference between the pet import regulations from outside the EU/EEA into the UK and into France, though you obviously need to check this.

Getting the dog painlessly from Southampton to France is slighty messy, since I think:
- all airlines require adult labs to be in the hold
- Eurostar doesn't allow pets on London-Continent routes
- Practically all Channel ferries want you to keep the dog in the car while you're on deck (though check the list of operators at http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quar...routes-sea.htm), which the flannerpooch has made it clear he's not having.
- the easiest way of keeping the dog with you is taking her in your car through the Channel Tunnel. However, taking UK-hired cars onto the Continent is also tricky, so you need to use the Hertz Le Shuttle system, where you hire a Hertz car in the UK, put the dog on the back seat, drive it to the Channel Tunnel, take the car through the Tunnel and swap it at Calais for a French car. Drive it to your destination et voila: the dog's been looked after properly and had lots of room the whole route - and you've been seeing her several times a day.

Take her to the nearest restaurant when you arrive, rejoice in being a country where dogs are welcome to join you as you eat proper food. And if she's got half a brain she'll take to French cheese the moment the waiter slips her the first few slivers of decent farmhouse chevre.

Intex

My daughter just brought a large German Shepard puupy (LARGE) home from Paris to the West Coast. The vet here gave my daughter some meds for the dog, and the dog made the trip without problems. There are many on this forum that do not approve, but animals are transported daily around the world, my friends transport horses for Polo matches all the time.

There are EXCELLENT vets in Paris, and also one of the nicest dog boarding house/school as well in Paris, with video coverage available to the owners. I personally checked on the dog daily while my daughter was out of town.

I would not hesitate, if the dog is that important to you, especially since Paris, and France in gerneral are SO dog friendly. Dogs go literally everywhere with their owners here.

Intex

PS- The flight was Air Tahiti Nui, CDG-LA direct.

amsdon

Flanneruk's idea sounds great.

Also did I miss it or did you say from where exactly you are leaving?
Is it the west coast?

I would either do the boat thing if you have the $$ or drive to NY and fly from there (rent a car)

Good luck and I commend you for loving your pets!

nytraveler

Frankly I would be very hesitant to do this by air.

If you can arrange it at all I would do it be sea instead - either when the cruise ships are repositionoing from the Carib to the Med - or if necessary, taking passage on a freighter.

Air travel is VERY traumatic for many animals, and whike being in the cabin isn;t so bad - I would never put an animal I cared about in the baggage hold. There are just too many potential problems (bad weather delays, strikes, lost luggage etc) to worry about.

I've seen too many stories about ill, dead or missing animals to ever risk it.

chevre

Thank you for the info and support of this idea. My dog is crate trained and actually chooses it sometimes when we're home and she can come and go out of it. She is also micro-chipped. As much as I would love to take a boat across I'm afraid it isn't practical though I love the thought of having a special area with her. (where do they um "do their business" so to speak? I live in Seattle and we have a non-stop to Paris from here. It sounds as though there won't be a quarantine requirement? And...I know how dog friendly France is. Is it hard to find an apartment to accept dogs? All the other details of leaving for awhile seemed manageable until I thought about leaving her!

hetismij

Provided your dog has had all her shots, including rabies, and has the right documentation there is no quarantine. Should you follow Flanner's advice and call in in the UK then you need to have the rabies jab done, a month later you need to have her tested by an approved lab to make sure she has enough antibodies and then 6 months later your dog can enter the UK, provided she has been de-flead, de-ticked and de-wormed first. This will also apply should you want to take her on holiday with you to the UK once you are in France, but a French vet will no all the rules and be able to help you - but it does require planning!

http://tinyurl.com/665wl8 tells you all the requirements for France.

suze

I don't mean this as discouragement but those dogs "everyone" goes to Paris cafes with are mostly or a smaller breed, not "young labs". I don't think of them as particularly good city/apartment dogs, I'm afraid.

But maybe you're moving to the countryside?

Pvoyageuse

"Is it hard to find an apartment to accept dogs?"

Normally the owner cannot refuse to rent a flat because you have a pet, it would be illegal to have a clause to this effect in the lease.
On the other hand and when you leave, he may ask you to repair the damages made by the pet.
Your pet must not be a nuisance for the neighbors (barking non-stop, using the stairs as its private bathroom, etc...).

kerouac

Anyway, a young lab should handle air travel much better than an old lab.

Frankly I don't think that dogs (or other animals) ask themselves all of these existential questions that "their people" do. If you were to ask a dog "do you want to suffer in solitude for 12 hours with weird vibrations and then live happily with your owner for years, or do you prefer to stay where you are and live with other people?" -- there would not be one moment's hesitation on the dog's reply, so why should you be tormenting yourself about it?

Intex

I see labs and German Shepherds here in St. Germaine all the tme, saw three today, and yes they do enter cafes, the supermarche, and even trains & metro.