anon

We're a family of 6 (2 adults, 2 teens, 2 younger kids), starting to plan a trip to Ireland and the UK. Ideally, we'll be able to fly open jaws in/out of London/Shannon. Any itinerary advice on how to get in between these places on our circuit? Would a combo of auto/train/ferry be best? Auto all the way thru the UK, given the price of train for 6 of us? Is Ryan Air the most economical way to get between Ireland/UK? Would we be better off going in/out of London, instead of open jaws, and then using Ryan Air to/from the UK/London? I'd love if one of you very knowledgeable travelers could help us with the most economical itinerary here, both in terms of dollars and of time. Thanks!

Ruth

My impression is that car ferrys between the UK and Ireland are quite expensive (and I'm not sure if you can take a hired car out of the UK). Fares for passengers without a car are quite cheap, but given the good deals offered by e.g. RyanAir, probably the train/ferry combination would be more expensive than flying. But it's difficult to be more specific without an idea of your itinerary - if you were going to be in Wales, for instance, it could be easier to take a ferry to Ireland than drive all the way back to Stansted to catch a flight (although maybe RyanAir flies from other UK airports, I'm not sure).

anon

Here's the tentative itinerary, but it is flexible if we can find better ways to take in the three primary areas we want to see: London, Edinburgh, and Ireland (mostly Atlantic coastal areas).<BR><BR>Day 1 - fly to London (?)<BR>Day 2 - London<BR>Day 3 - London<BR>Day 4 - York<BR>Day 5 - Edinburgh<BR>Day 6-12 - Ireland<BR>Day 13 - Home<BR><BR>As you can see, the primary focus of our trip is Ireland. We have seen London and parts of the UK before, but while we're so close we would like to introduce our kids to them (this will be their first time there).<BR><BR>We're very open to suggestions on itinerary, and are really not sure of the most efficient and cost effective ways for a family of six to do this area. Thanks!

Hillary

I am planning a similar trip for myself and a friend. We have just gotten out of graduate school--so not a lot of money! So far what seems the most economical is to fly into London and then use a Britrail pass to travel through England and Scotland. Then we will fly from either Edinburgh/Glasgow to Cork, where we rent a car and drive up the western portion of Ireland and then across to Dublin. Britrail passes can be a bit expensive, but I believe there are price breaks if you are under 26. From what I can tell, the flight from Scotland to Ireland is about $115.00 per person. When I was younger (10) my parents took my younger brother and I from London to Edinburgh on the train and we loved it! Hope this info helps a bit.

janis

I was going to answer you question differently until you added your planned itinerary. For six (four kids) this would be VERY difficult. You are going 400 miles north to Edinburgh and then 400 miles to Ireland in basically 2 days. (In the UK/Ireland think of 400 miles to be the equivelent of 1000 miles in the USA)<BR><BR>You have six people to deal with here - all will suffer from varying levels of jet lag and undoubtedly one or two of them will only beginning to feel human before you drag them on this trek London&gt;York&gt;Edinburgh&gt;Ireland.<BR><BR>My recommendation would be to stay in London for the first 5 days and then go to Ireland on day 6.<BR><BR>If the only reason you are going to London is to get a cheap airfare - then think about just doing Ireland. You can get just as inexpensive fares from about anywhere in the US to either London or Ireland.

anon

I appreciate your thoughts. I'm curious as to why 400 miles in the UK is more like 1000 miles in the US. Difficult roads, speed limits, so much to see along the way? Our only other experience in the UK was many years ago, and by tour bus, so we don't have the most accurate memories of what this "road trip" might entail. <BR><BR>I realize that we are covering a lot of territory in a limited amount of time, but in our own defence, I must mention that we are pretty experienced family travelers. We are very thorough planners, and our kids are very enthusiastic travelers.<BR><BR>If we could, the main reason that we'd like to go into London for a bit is that our teens would love to see it. Having been there before ourselves, we know that our short trip cannot nearly cover it all, but we could certainly make some memories even by a double-decker bus tour and some excursions on our own for a couple of days. That's the main reason we're hoping to make an open jaws flight, so we can see the highlights of London, then go up thru the UK into Scotland, and finally to Ireland, where we can take on a more leisurely pace. <BR><BR>Thank you for your thoughts...if you have any more ideas, I'd love to hear them!

janis

anon - But you are not "going up through the UK to Scotland". You are actually going to York and Edinburgh as a side trip/detour from London to Ireland. From what you've added here are my thoughts:<BR><BR>The first day in London will be very hectic and pretty much lost to jet lag. So assume you want 3 full days in London, I would stay 5 days in London but take a day trip on the train to York. York is very doable as a dy trip on the train from Kings Cross. Most of York is walking distance from the train station so you could go early in the AM - be there in about 2 hours - spend the whole day - and be back in your London hotel by 9PM. <BR><BR>As much as it grieves me to say this (I spend about 3 or 4 weeks in Scotland every year and consider it my second home) skip Edinburgh. It is just too much travel for too little benefit. You need a couple of days minimum in Edinburgh so leave Scotland for another trip when you have more time.<BR><BR>So fly round trip to London (or open jaw if you can get a good fare) and stay 5 nights in London and 6 in Ireland.

sylvie

Anon,<BR> IMHO, Fly RT to Ireland, when you land take a OW flight direct(or ferry) to Glascow or Edinburgh. Edinburgh 2/3 nights, Train about 2 hours to York 1/2 nights, train to London 2/3 nights, OW flight to Ireland, rent car 4-6 nights. <BR>Or vice-versa

wondering

I'm also curious as to the reason the 400 miles in the UK will seem so much longer. Hasn't the London to Edinburgh trip been discussed a zillion times before on this board? I thought it was about a 8 hour drive, or a 4 hour train ride. No?

janis

What I meant about the 400 = 1000? Yes the motorways are fast and direct. But every other road takes twice as long as similar roads in the states. In the States we think nothing of driving 400 miles one way /800 round trip for a weekend. But that just isn't possible in the UK. Especially if one is unfamiliar with the roads and driving over there - EVERYTHING takes longer.<BR><BR>As for Sylvies' suggestion. You would have to fly to Scotland since the ferries from NORTHERN Ireland land in Stranrear in the very southwest of Scotland - a loooong way from Edinburgh and the ferries from the Republic do not go to Scotland.<BR><BR>But in any case the first day has you flying overnight to Ireland and then flying to Edinburgh. While this is doable, it is a lot of travel without any sleep. And you would only really have one day in London since the last day would be mostly eaten up by packing, getting to the airport early, flying to Ireland and picking up your rental car. It is a very hectic schedule. <BR><BR>You will have to rent a "people mover" - the term for a Toyota Previa-type vehicle since you need room for 6 plus luggage. these are very expensive and ypu would have to rent two of them (UK and Ireland). If you limit yourselves to London, day trip to York, an Ireland, you would only need one rental vehicle.

M. Giggle

I think Janis has the right idea here. <BR><BR>The day trip to York would save a whole round of packing, hotel-locating, and unpacking again. And going to Edinburgh just to spend the night there, with travel days on both sides of that night, doesn't sound very profitable.<BR><BR>When I lived in the UK I learned the hard way about driving times/distances.<BR>I'd go with Janis' recommendations, and I definitely wouldn't try to drive the UK portion!<BR><BR>Best wishes for a great trip.

anon

I suppose this is another post entirely, and I will probably resort to that, but...One reason we didn't want to spend a lot of time basing out of London is accomodaations. It sounds like cottages and B&Bs are common in the more rural areas, but I would think a family our size will have an awful time finding a place big enough to accomodate us in the London area. If we move just a little outside of London (a "suburb"?), would we find more lodging options, and still have easy access to the rail system?

Ann

It's an extremely long drive from London-Edinburgh. I used to do the drive from Birmingham to Stranraer catch the ferry, and that was an long exhausting day. And Birmingham's a good hike from London.<BR><BR>Fly.

Cathy

Anon,<BR>The best way to fit in all that you want to see is to fly as you will lose a lot of time travelling by ferry to Ireland from the UK.<BR><BR>Since your goal in Ireland is to see the West Coast (I persume Kerry, Clare, Glaway etc). If you want to see only the West Coast then avoid flying into and out of Dublin and opt for Shannon instead. Ryanair fly there from Stansted. When booking it may be cheaper to book a return flight to and from Shannon and now use the return leg.<BR><BR>There is no need to fly to Dublin just to drive through Ireland as one previous poster stated you should allow twice the amount of time to travel half the distance in Ireland and then double the time allowed if it is peak holiday or weekend.<BR><BR>Ryanair is not the only no frills low cost airline operating in Europe (althugh it is the most successful and usually undercuts its competitors) you should also look at Go Fly for flights between London and SCotland.<BR><BR><BR>You could conceiveably stay in London, do York as a day trip, fly up to Scotland from Stansted with Go Airlines (www.gofly.com) and return the next day and fly out of Stansted to Shannon with Ryanair (www.ryanair.com)<BR><BR>or alternatively, see London and York, then fly to Shannon forgetting about Edinburg.<BR><BR>Either way I would opt for flights rather than driving as you get to see your intended places as opposed to motorways.<BR><BR>Hope this helps,<BR><BR>Cathy

Ruth

The longer you stay in London, the more worthwhile it would be to rent an apartment for all of you. These are probably easier to find in London rather than in the suburbs.

Geoff

Given the time frame, I don't see that driving from London anywhere is going to pay. So first I would suggest not renting in England/Scotland as discussed. But in terms of the day trip to York, it seems to me that the train ride to York and then back to London is not overly more time than York to Edinburgh. It would save you the time of trying to drive it, yet get to Scotland as planned and the kids can sleep on the train ride. If you then spent the whole day there as day 5, and got a flight to Ireland the morning of day 6 you might cut into some of the Ireland time, but far less than any ferry that would be a whole day itself.

janis

anon - it looks like one of your concerns is finding accomodations for six in London. That is no problem since you can find 2 or 3 bedroom apartments in the very center of London (not out in the suburbs) for less than the cost of hotels. If you want to rent a 2-bedroom with sofa sleeper in the living room for five nights you can get one for around 100 to 150 GBP per night and that gives you more room, and a full kitchen including a washer/dryer.

Keith Legg

As a side point - I'm assuming you've ruled out driving now! - I'm not sure you'd find it easy to hire a car in the UK to drive in Ireland. Firms who allow this usually charge a premium to take the car outside the UK; there's also the added complication that UK insurance firms charge a premium for insuring cars in Ireland, especially Northern Ireland, so this may well make the cost unacceptably high.<BR><BR>Personally, I'd skip York. I'd fly from London to Edinburgh in the evening of day 3 - take a look at EasyJet, Go and British Midland as alternatives to Ryanair - then fly from Edinburgh to Dublin (Ryanair do this, and I think possibly Go but I'm not 100%.)

anon

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and comments. We have, indeed, ruled out driving while in the UK. Still, the train is more tempting to us than flying on the London - Edin burgh leg. Flying would be quicker and cheaper, but I've heard that the scenery along the way is lovely and worth seeing. Also, we'd like to stop in York for even a day. Given our jobs, budget, and four kids, no trip will ever be *long enough*, but we've been pretty good so far in our travels at making some very fun memories. Even a couple of weeks is long enough to educate our kids (and us) on many cultural differences, and we love this! To us, trips are not vacations, but adventures. Still, we want to be smart about this and not be totally unrealistic about our itinerary!