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More flooding in northern England, including in York

More flooding in northern England, including in York

Dec 27th, 2015, 10:00 AM
  #1  
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More flooding in northern England, including in York

Ater the recent flooding in the Lake district, northern England, and north Wales, has been hit again by heavy rainful, a little further south this time. Lancashire, Greater Manchester, Leeds, West Yorkshire and York city have been badly affected.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35184999

I hope Morgana and others up there are all safe and dry.
hetismij2 is offline  
Dec 27th, 2015, 10:49 AM
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It's rained fairly continuously for eight weeks now. The final respite was ironically today which has been still and sunny.

Our large river catchment areas usually need a week to recover and we just are not getting enough dry days for the ground water to clear out.

The flooding has thankfully been very local and in most cases in villages which are very used to flooding issues.

The valley above Braithwaite in Cumbria received 13 inches of rain in 24 hours. In any language that's severe.

More storms forecast for Wednesday.

Time to book another holiday.
BritishCaicos is offline  
Dec 27th, 2015, 12:59 PM
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Dickie - we go to Cuba in a week's time, and see that co-incidentally, rain is forecast there, most unusually for the time of year, just as we arrive.

Although we have had rain, we've had nothing like what you've had "up north" and though there are some localised problems, so far we have escaped the worst.

Anyway, I advise picking your holiday destination very carefully if you wish to avoid rain. They had not had any in the area around Durban in SA for months, but guess what stopped play on the first day of the Test Match?

a thunderstorm no less.
annhig is offline  
Dec 27th, 2015, 11:34 PM
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In the last three years, we have been to :

Thailand
Perth WA
Munich
Turks and Caicos
Stockholm
Tromso
Charleston
Cadiz

Of those only Charleston gave us the weather we expected ; in that case beautiful clear days and chilly nights with no wind. We even had a predictable hurricane for October (Sandy) which was good fun and a bit like a trip to Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

Of the rest

Thailand : windy in the non windy season which resulted in anchoring at night being a nightmare

Stockholm : 33oC all week

Norway : no snow in February

Cadiz : 20oC in August not 40oC

Perth : 42oC just too hot

T & C : rain for a week, Scottish rain not Caribbean thunder showers

Just anecdotal but I see much cooler damper weather everywhere. This to me is global warming.

Twenty years ago I bought my first house - I had been sold the concept of global warming a believed it. None of the twenty houses I have owned have been plausibly liable to flood. My current two houses are 50 yards from the sea but on 50ft bluffs.

Many of the areas we rejected as possible places to live have since flooded.

Britain needs to rethink it's approach to settlement.

Have a lovely time in Cuba : it's my one few remaining "want to do" - I hope you've made it before the Yankee invasion ! Problem with getting old (47?!) is that time becomes more precious and you want to relive great trips rather than risk new areas. Smoke a cigar for me!

Ps try Charleston : you'd love it.
BritishCaicos is offline  
Dec 27th, 2015, 11:37 PM
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BTW

I'll retract my previous statement about "local" village flooding.

City centre York is under water.

Another storm is due soon.

This isn't good.

We pick our new puppy up tomorrow and so Machester/ Glasgow airports will be distant memories this next year!
BritishCaicos is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 12:58 AM
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Have a lovely time in Cuba : it's my one few remaining "want to do" - I hope you've made it before the Yankee invasion !>>

be careful what you post, Dickie. I made a similar statement on the Caribbean board and picked up a troll for my pains- almost every time I post anything there I get a hail of abuse so I've more or less stopped going there.

We gather that it's going to be pretty busy, especially in Havana, but we 're hoping to explore less visited areas. I will certainly report back.

I too have seen the dreadful pictures of York and other places "up north" - the cost of the clean up is of course going greatly to exceed what it would have cost to build decent defences.
annhig is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 05:19 AM
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Some roads and trains still blocked around Leeds, Floods in Otley have now gone down, Addingham (a small village up the Wharfe river) has lost three pubs, another burnt down a few months back so now trying to struggle by on the last 2. Baildon (which is in Airdale but just over a hill from Otley) suffered badly over the last few days with some houses evacuated and food parcels distributed ;-)

The big debate in York will be about the Fosse being allowed to back flood to save a pumping station and its electrical connections, Cameron turned up this morning to say well done chaps.

A few people moaning about the government but in reality the issues seem to be

1) far too much rain
2) Performance measures on the DEFRA look a bit odd

Morgana's village is on a river and I used to drive through it on the way to work a lot, from memory it might have suffered badly, any news?
bilboburgler is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 07:33 AM
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no, no news of Morgana so far - I hope that she isn't having to bale out.

it's still wet here but nothing like it is up north. I'm sure that Dave turning up will vastly improve morale!
annhig is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 08:02 AM
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Ann, at least he got out and about rather than leave it to the junior ministers who appear a little "bright but Tim" as we used to say.

I was remembering back 20 or so years when radio 4 first started to ask questions about climate change and the interviewee was asked who will feel this first and the answer was "islands" now I assumed he meant small islands, little did I know he meant Britain.

13" in 24 hours is a lot of rain, I've been on bike holiday in 6" of rain and had to give up by 11 am and checked into a hotel because I could not see my tyre in the water spray let alone the road. 13" must be frightening.
bilboburgler is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 08:29 AM
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I agree, Bilbo - and unimaginable when it goes on day after day.

I've seen the visible effects of global warming in Venice - when we first went there over 30 years ago there was no mention of Aqua Alta, and the water was quite low in the canals. Now even when there are no high water warnings, the later laps over the steps at the bottom of the Rialto and in many other places.
annhig is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 08:32 AM
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'I'm sure that Dave turning up will vastly improve morale!'

He always has the same pseudo concerned expression, North Face fleece (as if to suggest some sort of outdoor credentials) and botoxed shiny forehead. I'm sure it's all very comforting as your fridge floats down the street.
RM67 is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 10:34 AM
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Bless you, thanks for your concern. I'm fine thanks - I live a good mile away from the river Ure which has burst its banks but I'm on high ground. The fields nearby have turned into lakes as far as the eye can see.
The Ure has turned into a raging torrent and there's lots of standing water on the roads. A large % of people have 4x4s up here so we can get around ok. However the roads are very, very quiet.
Boxing Day saw the highest levels but today it is much better.
York often floods in parts, but not like it has this time! Leeds city centre around The Calls area has also been hit.
I think it is good that Cameron has come to York. By actually being there he can see the impact it has on people. I know it is 'his job' but he's also a dad with a young family and would probably have appreciated a few days off at Christmas. But he didn't send a minion, he came himself. Good for him!
Thanks for everyone's concern.
Morgana is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 11:11 AM
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North Face fleece

Failing to support British industry, tut tut.

Anyhow, around here it was the usual surge flooding half a mile upstream from me and half a mile downstream from me.

Personally I had more flooding driving up the A1 on Boxing Day.
dotheboyshall is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 02:58 PM
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I looked up the final figure of The Lake District at the beginning of December. It was 13.6 inches in 24 hours, the really amazing figure is that equates 1400 tons of water per acre.

The incredible figure is the world record - Reunion, The Indian Ocean in 1952, 72 inches in 24 hours or over 7000 tons per acre.
BritishCaicos is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 03:00 PM
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Well past three score years and ten here and I cannot remember the weather being this strange. Here in Glasgow we had an unusually wet spring, summer and autumn. One or two days dry, three or four days of rain. The pattern rarely changed. Only in the last few weeks of autumn did we get a dry period of a few weeks. Then the storms arrived, one after another and unusually violent too.

As so many have mentioned I also cannot remember it being so mild. No frost whatsover. Yesterday I saw a few gentlemen pass the front of the house wearign shorts and t-shirts. In late December? Bizarre.

The south-westerly winds hitting my windows so hard bothers me now when it never used to so I'm not looking foward to Wednesday/Thursday.
billbarr is offline  
Dec 28th, 2015, 10:08 PM
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Without wanting to disrupt this thread, and with utmost commiserations to those so horridly affected by the last eight weeks of storms, and by today's forecast Storm Frank:

annhig: please do try to find a way of publishing your reactions to Cuba. We were there a few weeks ago, and were more astonished and fascinated by what we saw (and didn't see) than by anywhere else we've ever been - and we've been regular commuters to the Communist and ex-Communist world since the Wall came down.

It was a reasonably enjoyable couple of weeks: but Cuba's occasionally remarkable tourist pleasures are dwarfed by the gazillions of questions about what's really happened over the past 55 years, and what its 10 million people really think about it. And by the internet hysteria that seems to follow any attempt to view it objectively.

I'd love to hear your considered take. But enjoy it: and remember to take your own anti-diarrhoea stuff (rarely needed, but a nightmare to find locally) insect repellent (ditto) and power converters to both US and Continental power points

Morgana It's rare to encounter goodwill and graciousness towards Cameron - who got excoriated by the "let's bash the Tories" press (including Murdoch's organs, punishing him as usual for the crime of disregarding Rupert's trite and fatuous insights into how the world should be run) as he visited parts of his own constituency when floods briefly swamped us 7 years ago. Rarer still to hear someone suggest politicians might be allowed a personal life.

Well done. And I hope the next few days see you safe
flanneruk is offline  
Dec 29th, 2015, 01:35 AM
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As so many have mentioned I also cannot remember it being so mild. No frost whatsover. Yesterday I saw a few gentlemen pass the front of the house wearign shorts and t-shirts. In late December? Bizarre.>>

As I've posted, Bill, it's been very mild here too, and shorts are very much de rigueur here even in December if its mild enough, but even I was surprised to see a chap who was otherwise quite conventionally dressed walking round Truro with nothing on his feet.

Flanner - I had no idea that you have recently been to Cuba, would love to hear about your experiences, where you went etc. and I have loads of Qs, particularly at the moment regarding how you got around, [we're thinking a combination of local taxis and Viazul for longer journeys] how much money to take and how, [we are thinking £ in cash, budgeting on £100/day] how to ensure we keep the said sum safe, the best place to change money particularly when we arrive and need money to pay the taxi-driver, whether there are ATMs, etc, etc, etc,

rather than divert this thread, could you kindly e-mail me?

[email protected] will find me.
annhig is offline  
Dec 29th, 2015, 03:00 AM
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Dredge the rivers.
Stop changing and diverting river courses.
Stop pumping concrete into the ground. Concrete doesn't abosrb water, it just diverts it elsewhere.
Most of the problems are contributed to by man, and with all the building planned or in progress it'll only get worse.
Big money for a few, but potentially big problems for many.
LancasterLad is offline  
Dec 29th, 2015, 04:14 AM
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RM67 on Dec 28, 15 at 12:32pm They said Dave changed from his Hunter boots into some cheaper version so he would not seem posh. The pictures are really horrible. There was one inside a bar and the water was halfway up the windows. How it doesn't break the glass and come pouring in was unbelievable. We have horrible infrastructure due to poor planning here and get some very bad flooding in the states as well. Christmas day was very bad here in the southern states.
flpab is offline  
Dec 29th, 2015, 09:45 AM
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The Yorvik centre is badly hit.

Dredging rivers just makes them faster. The Dutch know about that. A complete rethink, a total change in dealing with water is needed. More physical barriers just moves the problem down stream.
Trees need planting in the hills, ploughing needs to be done properly, flood plains need to be flood plains, rivers need meanders and less canalisation.

Here we are realising the risk of flooding by rivers and are working hard to break through some dikes, to designate agricultural land to be flooded, rivers are being made bendier, given extra channels and so on.

It all costs a lot of money, but everyone here pays Waterschapbelasting, waterboard tax which helps pay for it.
hetismij2 is offline  

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