Month Long European Trip (First time visiting!) ADVICE NEEDED! Please!
 

Hello all!!,

I just graduated college and am planning a month trip to Europe with my boyfriend. I have a draft itinerary set out and hoping to get some feedback. I am concerned I am trying to fit too much in a month but there is so much I want to see! Here is what I have so far (only flight to London booked). I would appreciate any and all advice!

Day 1 - Arrive London
Day 2 - London
Day 3 - London
Day 4 - London
Day 5 - Train to Amsterdam
Day 6 - Amsterdam
Day 7 - Amsterdam
Day 8 - Train to Paris (I realize this is back tracking but need to meet a friend in Amsterdam on the weekend)
Day 9 - Paris
Day 10 - Paris
Day 11 - Paris
Day 12 - Flight to Venice
Day 13 - Venice
Day 14 - Venice
Day 15 - Train to Florence
Day 16 - Florence
Day 17 - Florence
Day 18 - Florence
Day 19 - Train to Rome
Day 20 - Rome
Day 21 - Rome
Day 22 - Rome
Day 23 - Rome
Day 24 - Flight to Barcelona
Day 25 - Barcelona
Day 26 - Barcelona
Day 27 - Barcelona
Day 28 - Flight to Lisbon
Day 29 - Lisbon
Day 30 - Lisbon
Day 31 - Lisbon
Day 32 - Flight home

I am spending the most time in Rome and wondering If I instead should spend an extra day in Paris (or Florence/Barcelona/Lisbon). Is this feasible or am I doing too much?

Thank you in advance!!! Means so much for your insights.

7 different locations in 31 days? A little too much traveling for me, but you're young, go for it! When you're older, you can return for a week or two to one location, and get to enjoy it.

For train info - assume you are flying some and taking the train some - check these superb IMO sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. If you are under 26 you can qualify for an especially cheap Eurail Youthpass - not sure you are taking enough trains though as the Amsterdam to Paris Thalys train charges a steep supplement for pass holders and you can actually buy cheaper discounted tickets if booked months in advance at www.thalys.com. Actually looking at your itinerary the pass would not be a good deal but if you change your itinerary and ride more trains then yes - just a thought.

You could also take an overnight train Paris to Venice and have that exotic experience and save time and the cost of a hostel or hotel to boot. www.thello.com has fares with sleeping berth as low as 59 euros - no extra fees like airlines which now can charge a lot for baggage and even things like reserved seats on some - plus cost and time of getting to airport and back in, etc.

This seems totally feasible and fun: fast paced but not crazy at all.

In terms of where to put an extra day/night, only you know what you are most interested in. Why did you add more time to Rome initially? I'm sure something was sparking your desire to spend more time there. What are you most interested in seeing/doing/experiencing in all of these places?

I might take a night from Rome and add to London, and from Lisbon and add to Paris, but you may feel differently based on your interests.

I think you have too many big cities and need the throw in some small towns or countryside. What time of year is your trip?

Actually, your pace is much, much better than many people try to do their first trip. It is quite well planned and you have allowed for travel days. Bravo!

As Kybourbon indicated, it is awfully heavy on cities, and IME you experience more of the culture of a country by seeing and exploring smaller towns. If you can manage a day trip or so outside of some of the cities, that would be great.
Venice offers so much, you probably would not want to leave, but you could go to another island, perhaps Burano, or another small city like Vicenza, depends on your interests.

You could stop in Vicenza, Padova or Bologna for a few hours on your way to Florence.

You certainly have time for a day trip from Florence. Luca or Sienna

From Rome, Ostia Antica or Orvieto.

Just google or ask for options.
Sandralist and Kybourbon could probably help with that.

I would save Lisbon for another trip, and add more days to Paris and Venice.

I wouldn't take a day from Rome; there's such a lot of things to see there. I might take a day from Lisbon and add it to London. However, it depends on your interests. It's really hard to advise you about the number of days to spend in each place without having even a slight idea of what your interests are.

The number of days you should spend in Florence would depend on whether you're planning to visit many museums and churches, and also whether you're planning to take any day trips.

I also tend to agree that your itinerary is a bit heavy on big cities. You might want to substitute a few of them with a nearby smaller town, for instance Leiden instead of Amsterdam.

Lisbon really didn't light my fire, but I was mainly there for a conference and a day or two extra. I've never been to Barcelona, so I couldn't advise much about the number of days you should spend there, even if I did know your interests.

This is doable but I think you are giving London and Paris short shrift - esp the former. I would bag Lisbon and divide the days between the other two.

I would love your trip. There is nothing wrong with going to the big cities. I've been to all the ones you named and very glad about it. Of course I have my favorites (London really never lights my fire and I can't stand Barcelona -- but so what? They are other people's favorites! Adding the countryside is only important to the people who like that and don't like cities. There is nothing objectively "better" about a trip that would take you to the countryside instead of other countries. Whether you learn more about the culture of a European country by cramming in a trip to the countryside is highly disputable, even by the natives of the various countries. Most of them have invested mightily in their cities. And by going fewer countries, you would end up getting less of a sense of what Europe is today.

By all means go to the countryside if it suddenly occurs to you to be a great idea. But there is nothing missing from your trip as an educational and fun adventure.

I think by the time you get to Rome you will be glad to have a longer stretch. If you are both bored, you can take a train to the countryside. :)

PS: Lisbon is beautiful and romantic, which marvelous wine and food and water views, and so cheap it is great fun in contrast to the other expensive places you are going.

Good perspective from Sandralist.
One thing you can do is learn what options you might like, but play it by ear when you are there. Day trips can always be impromptu.

Wow! Thank you for all the great advice!

I am going this April.

I know little about Lisbon and added it because it had the least expensive direct flight home and I would already be somewhat in the area (Barcelona; I considered going to Madrid but thought I should probably not go to another large city). A friend highly recommended Lisbon as an affordable and beautiful city, but I would be OK with cutting it for more time in Paris or smaller cities.

For those of you who recommend smaller cities, do you suggest keeping a "base" and taking day trips or rearranging my route to make more stops along the way?

PalenQ have you taken the Paris to Venice train? I looked into it and it seems more expensive on the surface than a flight but maybe the experience/views make it worth it?

Interests:
Site-seeing (first time to all these places)
Walking (or being able to get around easily in order to fit in a lot of stuff in one day)
Art/Museums
Food!!

Less important:
Nightlife/Clubbing (want to be up early each morning)
On a budget so activities that are super expensive

I actually would like to spend more time outside of cities so I am glad I got this feedback! I was trying to hit many of the "must-see" cities, but I guess that is not necessarily the right approach for a first-time trip.

Thank you for all your responses! Great to hear from experienced travelers :)

What worries my about the country side or smaller cities is the transportation (getting to and from and getting around). I don't plan on renting a car, so this may make small town travel limited.

Another question: For my return flight home, does it really matter what airline I take? (and flying within Europe for that matter)

I read some horrible reviews about Sata and Turkish Air (5+ hrs delays, freezing cabins, etc). I am an easy going person, but do want to get home in one piece so wondering if you recommend to "stay-away" from particular airlines. This could also apply to flying within Europe.

Thanks again!!

PalenQ have you taken the Paris to Venice train? I looked into it and it seems more expensive on the surface than a flight but maybe the experience/views make it worth it?>

well I was referring to the overnight Thello train (www.thello.com) as potentially being cheap - fares I've seen from 59 euros for a shared couchette type cabin and on up from there - saving a night in a hotel cost too and time.

Daytime it's a long LONG train ride if go straight thru and yes probably more expensive than flying as you have multiple trains to take - at least two with separate fares I believe. And so-so scenery IMO.

So only the overnight Thello train I have taken could save money over flying - not the day train I think.

Be carefrul = my friend when he was about your age and his new wife took the Paris to Venice night train and got a private compartment -a double - which can be rather pricey over the 4- or 6-person couchette compatments - but with the double - some wine - he swears his first son was conceived on that overnight train ride!

Your trip sounds fine. Fast paced, but not terribly so.

You can take the train or a bus on day trips from some of the cities. For example, from Paris, you could go to Chartres by train--not exactly the country, but a much smaller city.

From London, take the train to Hampton Court Palace and then the boat back to London on the Thames.

From Florence--Siena, from Venice--Padua. But best idea for Venice would be to take the Vaporetto out to Torcello. You'll probably get a pass anyway so it won't cost you anything and Torcello is pretty rural.

From Roma, you can take a bus to Tivoli or the train to Orvieto.

Thank you everyone! I've got some good notes!

I think your proposed itinerary is very good, much better than what we usually see here from first-timers. I too would consider adding time to London. Assuming you're arriving in London after a long overnight flight, you will be sleepy and jet-lagged for the first day or two. So an extra day to recover is good. And there's so much to see in London.

Easyjet has a flight from Paris Orly to Venice. That would be quicker than a train, but if the romance of a night train appeals to you.... Not me but I want to sleep or see the countryside.

Will you be getting a Eurail pass? It won't pay for the Eurostar trip London to Brussels (en route to Amsterdam) though you can get a discount. For the rest of your train trips buying individual tickets well ahead of time may add up to less than the pass. Especially since in some countries and on some high-speed trains you have to buy a seat reservation (best done a day or two ahead of time since the seats for pass-holders can be limited).

Do buy the Eurostar tickets early for a considerable savings.

Will you be booking your hotels ahead of time?

I agree that you might want to add some small or medium sized cities, and concur with Sassafrass on how to add them into your existing travel days. I would suggest one of the following, which are on the most direct train lines between your overnight stops:

1) Bologna on the way from Venice to Florence - about half way, easy to see in a day
2) Orvieto on the way from Florence to Rome, easy to see in a few hours.
3) Or if a day trip is preferable, then Sienna from Florence

If you want a really different take on things, consider renting a car in Florence and driving through Tuscany, stopping at little hill top towns like Montalcino or Montepulciano. You can do this either as a day trip, or as on drop off on the way to Rome. Personally, I love driving in the countryside (and not in the city) so if you do this, I suggest not trying to return it to a big city like Rome.

Whatever you decide, have a great time!

I agree with others in saying that this is quite a decent itinerary for s first timer. I only have a few thoughts. First would try to fly London to Amsterdam as a way to save time. Second, if you wish to keep to large cities I would take one day from both Lisbon and Barcelona and add one day extra to London and Paris. I also think going to some smaller towns would be a nice idea. Siena or Lucca or Pisa or a drive in Tuscany makes sense for your schedule. If you want more time outside large cities I would axe Lisbon or Barcelona. Consider than a stop in Bruge on your way from Amsterdam to Paris. lastly you may want a day of downtime somewhere in the middle of your trip just to relax, do some laundry and kickback for a bit to recharge.

or sit on an Italian or French beach for a day - chill at times - travel can indeed by travail at times and you may need an R&R from time to time.

2) Orvieto on the way from Florence to Rome, easy to see in a few hours.> by train if you have lots of luggage check to see if there is aleft-luggage in the sleepy Orvieto train station if that matters. Was not when I was there long ago and many Italian stations do not offer it though sizable ones usually do.

>>>What worries my about the country side or smaller cities is the transportation (getting to and from and getting around). I don't plan on renting a car, so this may make small town travel limited.<<<<

Many small towns are on train routes so transport isn't that much of a problem. Others have bus service (some are as fast at the trains and more convenient). You might tire of the bigger cities hustle/bustle on a long trip and want some down time. Have you traveled for a month before?

Orvieto is not easy to see if you have luggage. Bologna is not a "small town". There are parts of Rome and Lisbon that have more a village feel than most of Bologna. It is easier to find someplace to kick back and do laundry in Florence than it is to try to get to most Italian villages using public transport.

I live in a village in Italy so I am all for small town life! But the rationales being given for rearranging the itinerary to include "the countryside" don't make much sense to me. I was just in Paris the other day, walking through the Tuilleries, and thinking how nice it will be to sit there in when the weather is warmer and enjoy the trees, the pond, the children playing and the flowers.

The cities of Europe where the OP is going have beautiful nature spots within them, and visiting them and enjoying them is a great way to appreciate why the locals also love them so much. You can take an easy boat trip across the Tagus river in Lisbon and have a wonderfully relaxing day, watching men fish as they have for centuries. That is 10 minutes from the heart of Lisbon! Likewise you go to Montserrat from Barcelona and walk in the mountains, or visit Fiesole from Florence -- just 15 minutes by bus -- and walk the paths that Michaelangelo walked through olive groves and vineyards to Settignano, with views of Florence, and then take the 20 minute bus ride back.

One more time, I've nothing against picking different destinations, or going to the countryside or the beach, if that's what you want to do. But I would love to go to all these cities for a month! I'd have a blast -- and I'm sure some times I would just be sitting in a cafe or a park for a very long time, or sleeping in and just taking a break. It is possible to be tranquil in the middle of the city, and Europeans have created many, many, many places within their cities to do just that.

mgallipeau,

regarding your concerns about various airlines, sign up at the Flyer Talk forum and see what people say.

Also, to add on to my thoughts about seeing smaller towns, I think you would need to cut one or two cities from your present itinerary to have it make sense. Although I don't find your present itinerary rushed, I do think it becomes rushed or complicated if you create an itinerary where you are taking time from a 3 day trip to Venice to take a train to Vicenze and back, or are stopping in in the city of Bologna to walk around in the middle of the day -- when everything is closed -- on your way to a short stay in Florence.

If you think you want to see smaller places but are unwilling to cut cities from your itinerary, then between now and when you leave, take a look at some easy day trips from the cities where you are going BUT BUT BUT (yes I am shouting) -- try to select ones that are not tourist central. As you can well imagine, many of the "cute" villages near the major tourist cities that are easy to get to by train are just as touristy as the city you are leaving.

I know more about Italy than I do the other countries where you are going, but for Venice, visiting Chioggia or Treviso will show you more about smaller town Italian life than Verona or Bologna. From Rome, a bus trip to Palestrina or Arricia is going to get you more out of the tourist orbit than Orvieto. Likewise for Florence, head to Pistoia or Montecantini Alta for lunch and look-see rather than Lucca.

There are similar places near Amsterdam, Lisbon, etc -- but you will also find neighborhoods in all those cities that are not "tourist attractions" but give you a very good feel for the native culture of that country, and the day to day life of the city, without any consciousness of tourism.

I think you will get an eye-opening experience of today's Europe with your overall plan, even if you take away a city or two to visit the countryside or leave everything as it is. Have fun speaking in all those languages!

Look for a cheap flight from London to Amsterdam, or consider taking the night ferry/train combination.

I'd see if your friend from Amsterdam could meet you in Paris. That would not only free up that train travel time, but also 3 nights to add to some of the cities already on your list like Paris and Venice. I wouldn't add any more cities or add any stops along the way between cities. Sandralist pointed out there are beautiful green spaces to enjoy in these fabulous cities when you need some downtime from sightseeing - and with a little more time in each place you can relax and enjoy the European café culture!

Your budget might help you decide which cities to spend more time in.