Daniel_Williams

Hello,

As a teacher, I have a nice chunk of summer off and sometimes I feel that I don't take advantage of that as much as I could. I've been pondering a plan for next summer for a sort of immersion (possibly for say the entire month of July?). I enjoyed my trip back in the summer of 2012 to the Netherlands, where I stayed at a B&B in Haarlem and spoke every morning to the B&B hostess in Dutch; I could only communicate at a very basic level at the time. During my two week trip, I did usual touristy things, visiting museums, historic sites and parks in Amsterdam, the Hague, Delft and Haarlem. I'd be happy to do more of that if I go back in the summer of 2015 , but I remember yearning to meet people in some sort of natural social context. The question is "how". My Dutch comprehension has improved considerably as I've been listening to nos.nl (funny enough, I now use it as my news source as I feel it has a more international focus than many broadcasters) although my opportunities to speak have been very few here in Canada.

A Dutch language conversation course I thought of, but one issue with that is that in such courses, one meets people who are learning and struggling to learn the language, which is fine and could be enjoyable but I was hoping to meet more mother-tongue Dutch-speakers. The best idea I've come up with is this: this summer (summer 2014) I'm taking the German A1.2 course at the Goethe Institut here in Montreal; my idea was to possibly finish the A1 level by doing the intensive German A1.3 course offered at the Goethe Institut in Amsterdam, Rotterdam or the Hague. There, I would be in a class with more people who speak Dutch as their native tongue who are wishing to improve their German.

Any other ideas? Has anyone tried a similar immersion (not necessarily in Dutch, could be any language)?

Thanks for all ideas you may have, Daniel

PS For sure, I'd like to do some usual touristy things. (I was planning to go to Trier to Aachen for example while there.) I just find being a tourist, one can be socially isolated in a way.

PalenQ

You may want to try airbnb - live with locals or couch surfing, the same or B&Bs where you often can talk to the owner and other Dutch folks at the breakfast table.

Dai

It's not easy to find Dutch natives who only speak Dutch because they have a tradition in learning foreign languages. Based on my experience speaking Italian, I need to get away from towns with a lot of visitors if I want to speak Italian in Italy. Elderly Italians are great for me to practice Italian with because the majority of elderly Italians off the beaten path don't speak English. I suggest when you're out and about that you find ways to ask questions to elderly residents to generate conversations.

Wiki says that 87% of the population speaks English, and 7 out of 10 speak German.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag...he_Netherlands

StCirq

I'd rent a place for a month in a small village in the boondocks, settle in, and watch your prowess with the language grow by leaps and bounds. Worked wonders for me in France, though I came already having a decent grasp. Spent 6 weeks in a village of 75 people in Italy one summer, too, and felt pretty fluent by the end of it.

hetismij2

Head away from Amsterdam/Haarlem.

Get out into the country more, hear different accents, stay at B&Bs or farms or even camp - that is a good way to meet Dutch people on holiday.

People will still want to speak English to you but less so than in the Randstad. Hearling different accents - Limburg with it's soft G sound or Friesland or Groningen. In fact any of the provinces away from Amsterdam - you rarely hear a real Amsterdam accent nowadays, but where I live I can tell someone from the next town by their accent!

There are immersion courses in Dutch at different levels. You can also take Dutch as a foreign language exams too.

I'm not a native speaker but I'd be happy to meet up and talk Dutch with you.

Cowboy1968

Aside from actual language courses, you could also engage in "normal leisure time activities" if you wish to interact with locals.
Examples could be: short courses or lectures at the local Volksuniversiteit on whatever topic interests you, vernissages at local galleries, readings at bookstores or libraries, guided nature walks, or go bowling or spend a weekend in a CenterParc ;-)
Or, if you really daring, a day trip or 2-3 day bus tour to anywhere...

hetismij2

Certainly many guided tours of places away from the tourist area around Amsterdam are in Dutch only, or you could opt for the Dutch version. Somewhere like the Batavia, www.bataviawerf.nl , will have tours in Dutch for a group of strangers, and you will soon be conversing with them. Same with many museums.


The Volkuniversiteiten tend to be closed in the summer months, but some libraries organise talks and the like.

PalenQ

Camping is certainly a great way to meet locals and could be a cheap vacation too - find a camp that rents out chalets or RVs and it can be quite comfy - there are camps everywhere in Holland and I have camped all over it - like hetismij says a great way to meet and greet locals.

Daniel_Williams

Thanks all for the suggestions.

I think Cowboy1968, you've come down to the crux of what I'm looking for: "normal leisure activities" where I'd be able to see the same people repeatedly with some purpose in mind. Where the people I interact with would see me as more than as a random tourist leaving in a few days, but rather as a cool person who they'd realize they wouldn't mind having a beer with.

That's why the German course I thought might be a good idea; I'm sure there are plenty of Dutch who want to learn or improve their German. One advantage of this is that I've noticed that language learners tend to be more patient with others learning a language (in my case I'd be learning German with them, but getting to use my Dutch sometimes with them). The other idea I had was a cooking class taught primarily in Dutch (but where to begin?). I think (I hope) my Dutch is strong enough that I could handle it. Or volunteering at a meals-on-wheels.

hetismij-- Als ik deze reis doe, beloof ik jou op te bellen zodat we nederlands samen kunnen spreken.

Daniel

Cowboy1968

It's fairly easy for Dutch to converse in German - harder the other way around. Though our languages have a couple false friends. Bellen is one of usual suspects, as many Dutch would translate your sentence more or less understandable into German, but leave the 'bellen' in - which would mean that you plan to bark at hetismij on your upcoming trip

PalenQ

Half of Belgium speaks Dutch as well - broaden your horizons!

hetismij2

Dutch learn German at school. Most make do with that, or keep practicing by visiting Germany.
My son learned German in about a month, by immersion in it when he first worked on a charter ship.

Lots of words are the same but mean something completely different in Dutch and German.

Vlaamse is different to Dutch in some ways, using some very different words, and can be hard to understand if you aren't tuned in to it.

lavandula

I would be reluctant to recommend doing a German course in the Netherlands - it is easy for one of those languages to 'overwrite' the other, and better in my opinion to keep the contexts separate, so you don't associate the Dutch context with German words when you recall the scene later. You do want to keep them separate in your head. But the idea of an evening college course is a good one, because you are mingling with native speakers in a natural fashion. I would go for that 100%.

Lavandula

Daniel_Williams

PalenQ--Certainly, Flemish Belgium is not off the radar either. In fact, that's where my interest in Dutch arose back in the'90s... when I was visiting a college friend whose father lived in a suburb of Brussels that was primarily Flemish-speaking. At the time, I only learned some basic polite expressions "alstublieft, aangenaam kennis te maken" just in case, that I didn't end up actually using.

My only friendly acquaintance here in Montreal that speaks Dutch is from Antwerp. Although I understood her well, I find the difference in her and other Belgian accents I've heard is quite marked relative to the nos.nl speak my ear is more attuned to; the last language book I bought was out of Flemish Belgium, so I have made some effort to learn some uniquely Belgian vocabulary. Certainly taking a course in Flemish Belgium is an option, although I'm trying not to cast my net too wide... trying to focus on course options at institutions in the Netherlands to begin with.

Lavandula-- I know what you mean about overwriting languages. In some ways, I'm already fighting against that already with my German course right now; certain German words (such as "vermieter") look like they *could* be the correct word in Dutch also, but aren't ("verhuurder" is correct). Even now, I test myself when learning German vocabulary by reminding myself of the Dutch word. Actually, this potential overwriting is one reason I thought taking German in the Netherlands might not be such a bad idea, to force me to compartmentalize the two languages. As cowboy1968 alluded to, I don't want to make a false friend mistake, for example telling someone in Germany that I'll bell them op .

Thanks for all the ideas! Daniel

PalenQ

Have you investigated volunteer programs or teacher exchange programs for the summer?

I think the Dutch thing they speak superior Dutch than the Flems - much as we Yanks up north in the mid-west think we speak better English - more the official English than folks down in 'Bama or Mississippi - or the French thinking haughtily that teh Belgians 'speak country French' (or a worse adjective using the 'n' word as I have often heard).

Dutch is Dutch and English is English IMO - no one groups speaks it better than another - same language, minor nuances. A Flem would probably speak better than hetismij, an immigrant from Cornwal (not sure about that - sure she is from Corwall but perhaps she speaks perfect Dutch).

menachem

Why don't you go for a summer course in a subject that's interesting to you? Not a language course, but something where you'll have to use your Dutch in Dutch company and do something that's enjoyable to you?

What's interesting to you, in terms of leisure?

There's also lots of volunteering at organic farms by the way. And summer schools teaching things as esoteric as green wood carving, or "cooking in the field"

Point is to get out of the west of the country and Haarlem and Amsterdam and to head into the countryside. The big cities is for the tourists, but the country is where the Dutch people will be.