Modern Athens is a disgrace
Jun 29th, 2006, 06:10 AM
#41
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I think Athens is what it is...sorry you didn't enjoy it.
Question for Mel: you thought Athens was 'somewhat dangerous" but you recount nothing in your description which sounds the least bit 'dangerous' so what is that all about?
Question for Mel: you thought Athens was 'somewhat dangerous" but you recount nothing in your description which sounds the least bit 'dangerous' so what is that all about?
Jun 29th, 2006, 08:28 AM
#43
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The perception of danger I refered to in my earlier post was while walking around Syntagma (sp?)and Omonia square areas after dark. Normally I don't hesitate to walk around at night to get a late snack or just to get a feel for what happens in a place after dark. However in these two areas, things didn't quite feel right. I never experienced anything bad, but I was more aware than usual of people who walked behind me, felt watched by men who lingered around the news paper stands, etc., although there seemed to be lots of other tourists like me on the street at that time of night (11:00pm or so).
Several days later, a man I met on the way to Santorini (he is originally from Samos) told me that these two areas are quite dangerous at night and that he was surprised that I hadn't been mugged.
Several days later, a man I met on the way to Santorini (he is originally from Samos) told me that these two areas are quite dangerous at night and that he was surprised that I hadn't been mugged.
Jun 29th, 2006, 08:32 AM
#44
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I have always been fascinated with ancient history, having majored in it, and dreamt of visiting Greece. I've now been to just about everywhere else in Europe, visiting about 2-3 times a year. When talking to a Greek friend a year or two ago (born and raised in Athens), she told me that: "...Athens today is a far cry from the way it used to be. It is dirtier than ever and a lot of the old neighborhoods have become slums, with more and more prostitution, drugs...etc. More and more they are separating from the old orthodox church which used to, at least in some way, provide a moral compass." These comments did not completely change my mind about going. Maybe, after this post and others regarding Athens, I would just stay 1-2 days there and move on to Santorini, Cyprus and other island destinations.
Jun 29th, 2006, 09:03 AM
#45
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Mel, thanks for the clarification.
Susan, with the very greatest of respect I think if you talk to the right people you will hear the words, "________ is a far cry from the way it used to be" about just about anywhere on earth. And, of course, the lack of an organized religious allegiance is often sighted as one of the reasons.
i bet when you go to the islands you will hear the same thing about "Santorini/Mykonos etc., etc., not being the same as they used to be/changed for the worst, etc., etc.
And 50 years ago I bet people were saying the same things.
Susan, with the very greatest of respect I think if you talk to the right people you will hear the words, "________ is a far cry from the way it used to be" about just about anywhere on earth. And, of course, the lack of an organized religious allegiance is often sighted as one of the reasons.
i bet when you go to the islands you will hear the same thing about "Santorini/Mykonos etc., etc., not being the same as they used to be/changed for the worst, etc., etc.
And 50 years ago I bet people were saying the same things.
Jun 29th, 2006, 10:54 AM
#46
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"The perception of danger I refered to in my earlier post was while walking around Syntagma (sp?)and Omonia square areas after dark. Normally I don't hesitate to walk around at night to get a late snack or just to get a feel for what happens in a place after dark. However in these two areas, things didn't quite feel right."
I stayed at Hotel Grande Bretagne directly on Syntagma Square, and must say that I felt it was very safe at night, quite unlike London. Even on New Year's eve when lots of people were gathered there for a concert there was a very safe feeling atmosphere, no violence or unwanted rowdiness at all.
I stayed at Hotel Grande Bretagne directly on Syntagma Square, and must say that I felt it was very safe at night, quite unlike London. Even on New Year's eve when lots of people were gathered there for a concert there was a very safe feeling atmosphere, no violence or unwanted rowdiness at all.
Jun 29th, 2006, 11:38 AM
#47
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Having visited Athens for the first time, pre-cruise last October, I can appreciate the observations on the downside of Athens. I found the city to be dirty, polluted, full of scooters and what I can only describe as unattractive, post WWII concrete bunker style architecture. I was also struck by the number of cheap shops and sex-related businesses that I saw as we travelled through the streets. When we sailed from Athens, the view was pretty uniform, for as far as the eye could see, the white 2 or 3 story concrete buildings. It was a sight to behold, just unending sprawl.
There are still some old buildings, historical sites and museums that should be seen. We loved visiting the Acropolis, especially the museum up there. I could only envision what a lovely city this might have been in the past.
We did not have the negative people experiences that others had, but we weren't there that long. We asked our hotel front desk for recommendations for local restaurants/tavernas, and were very happy with the advice. We felt safe and had nice, locally flavored experiences.
We also visited the Isles and Peloponnese, and did not find the same environment in our other travels in Greece. There were charming towns, friendly, helpful folks everywhere.
It was nice to visit one of the world's famous cities, but I would not go back. That really surprised me since I was looking forward to visiting Athens. Live and learn.
There are still some old buildings, historical sites and museums that should be seen. We loved visiting the Acropolis, especially the museum up there. I could only envision what a lovely city this might have been in the past.
We did not have the negative people experiences that others had, but we weren't there that long. We asked our hotel front desk for recommendations for local restaurants/tavernas, and were very happy with the advice. We felt safe and had nice, locally flavored experiences.
We also visited the Isles and Peloponnese, and did not find the same environment in our other travels in Greece. There were charming towns, friendly, helpful folks everywhere.
It was nice to visit one of the world's famous cities, but I would not go back. That really surprised me since I was looking forward to visiting Athens. Live and learn.
Jun 29th, 2006, 12:41 PM
#48
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I think Athens is a lot better than it was, say, 10 yrs ago. Now you've got the fabulous Metro, which is so great, and the area around the ancient Agora is really spiffed up. Plaka also. Except for that cheesy Plaka train, that they should get rid of.
I sure do wish I had an Athenian gyro right about now...and a frappe...
I sure do wish I had an Athenian gyro right about now...and a frappe...
Jun 29th, 2006, 12:46 PM
#49
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Athens quite simply isn't an American destination. It's not one of these sterilised, clinical cities that likes to play toytown; it's very real.
It's not seedy as a whole (every city has its seedy areas), and in my eyes is far more elegant than say Amsterdam. View the lived in look as charming, not "Oh it needs rebuilding", and the Kolonaki district is very chic, and far more sophisticated than Bond St. is these days. Try to scratch the surface, rather than look for the LA plastic surgery solves all image.
It's not seedy as a whole (every city has its seedy areas), and in my eyes is far more elegant than say Amsterdam. View the lived in look as charming, not "Oh it needs rebuilding", and the Kolonaki district is very chic, and far more sophisticated than Bond St. is these days. Try to scratch the surface, rather than look for the LA plastic surgery solves all image.
Jun 29th, 2006, 01:06 PM
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While it's not a mostly clean and beautiful city by any means, I would never regret going there and would recommend it to others. We visit Athens for the unparalleled history and ruins. The Acropolis is one of a handful of must-see world history destinations. Just being able to absorb and contemplate all that history more than makes up for the pollution and crooked taxi drivers. You just can't go there thinking it is on par with Paris and London in terms of overall beauty and safety.
Jun 29th, 2006, 02:14 PM
#52
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We're spending 3 days in Athens in October, and I'm following this thread with interest. It's great to hear all these different opinions on Athens. I almost want to explore modern Athens than I do the ancient parts, although of course we will do that as well.
Jun 29th, 2006, 09:18 PM
#54
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m_kingdom2 you sound bitter, rude and ok with conning people, I guess it makes sense for you to like Athens!
Seriously though, I did warm to Athens after a while...it's a tough place that does grow on you once you feel like you've 'earned your brass.'
RECOMMENDATIONS: Spondi was by far the best restaurant at which I ate, Varoulko and Dionysus are totally overrated. For the best views I recommend Horizontes and Mr. Pil Poul. If you're strolling downtown and don't mind paying a little more for the setting, the cafe atop the Benaki is a marvel. Regardless, you absolutely MUST see the Benaki Museum.
Seriously though, I did warm to Athens after a while...it's a tough place that does grow on you once you feel like you've 'earned your brass.'
RECOMMENDATIONS: Spondi was by far the best restaurant at which I ate, Varoulko and Dionysus are totally overrated. For the best views I recommend Horizontes and Mr. Pil Poul. If you're strolling downtown and don't mind paying a little more for the setting, the cafe atop the Benaki is a marvel. Regardless, you absolutely MUST see the Benaki Museum.
Jun 29th, 2006, 10:00 PM
#56
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Someone above noted he/she couldn't understand why everyone was so upset by the OP's dislike of Athens. I've read this entire thread and didn't get the feeling that anyone was particularly upset by the comments, just surprised or had completely opposite opinions about the city.
We liked Athens and had a wonderful time in the six days we were there. The only people I felt were unfriendly (at least that we came in contact with) were the staff at our hotel.
The only thing I found disagreeable about the OP's Athen's bashing was the finality of it. In other words, never was the comment made "IMO." Everything negative about the city was stated as fact, not as opinion.
I found this arrogant and smug. I don't consider myself enough of an authority on any city where we've vacationed that I would condemn it and warn others not to go there.
We liked Athens and had a wonderful time in the six days we were there. The only people I felt were unfriendly (at least that we came in contact with) were the staff at our hotel.
The only thing I found disagreeable about the OP's Athen's bashing was the finality of it. In other words, never was the comment made "IMO." Everything negative about the city was stated as fact, not as opinion.
I found this arrogant and smug. I don't consider myself enough of an authority on any city where we've vacationed that I would condemn it and warn others not to go there.
Jun 30th, 2006, 01:49 AM
#57
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Author: m_kingdom2
Date: 06/29/2006, 04:46 pm
Athens quite simply isn't an American destination. It's not one of these sterilised, clinical cities that likes to play toytown; it's very real.
>>>>>
whether you like athens or not, it's this kind of rubbish that stifles good debate. if a briton were to dislike a place (no matter how well he explains his reasons), an american could just as easily make the stupid comment that it's just because its not like one of those anglicised holiday places with more fish and chip shops and british pubs than "local flavour" e.g. too much of spain.
these kind of comments are never interesting but usually it's various militant american europhiles that spout this kind of rubbish...assuming that if an american dislikes something in sacred europe it's his fault for "not getting it", wanting everything to be like disney, bringing on rudeness by being ignorant, etc, etc. this is all rubbish.
Date: 06/29/2006, 04:46 pm
Athens quite simply isn't an American destination. It's not one of these sterilised, clinical cities that likes to play toytown; it's very real.
>>>>>
whether you like athens or not, it's this kind of rubbish that stifles good debate. if a briton were to dislike a place (no matter how well he explains his reasons), an american could just as easily make the stupid comment that it's just because its not like one of those anglicised holiday places with more fish and chip shops and british pubs than "local flavour" e.g. too much of spain.
these kind of comments are never interesting but usually it's various militant american europhiles that spout this kind of rubbish...assuming that if an american dislikes something in sacred europe it's his fault for "not getting it", wanting everything to be like disney, bringing on rudeness by being ignorant, etc, etc. this is all rubbish.
Jun 30th, 2006, 03:33 AM
#58
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Of course I generalise in saying Athens isn't an American destination, but it isn't. Paris is a wonderful example of an American destination because large chunks of the city are beautiful, clean, plenty of art galleries/museums and you have the Seine. It's an "easy listening" destination where you can either just breeze through it or you can get right into the very heart of the city.
On the other hand, Athens is a city that doesn't work nearly so well on the easy listening side of things. It's alternative music, something that requires thought, understanding, and above all else, a subtle approach. Only then can you start to enjoy all it has to offer.
On the other hand, Athens is a city that doesn't work nearly so well on the easy listening side of things. It's alternative music, something that requires thought, understanding, and above all else, a subtle approach. Only then can you start to enjoy all it has to offer.
Jun 30th, 2006, 05:40 AM
#59
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mk_2,
Then please continue the enlightenment of the rubes:
What culture produces travellers with ``thought, understanding, and above all else, a subtle approach?''
In general, of course.
Soon to follow will be the U.S. travel snobs tripping all over themselves to prove they are not ``typical Americans'' . . .
Then please continue the enlightenment of the rubes:
What culture produces travellers with ``thought, understanding, and above all else, a subtle approach?''
In general, of course.
Soon to follow will be the U.S. travel snobs tripping all over themselves to prove they are not ``typical Americans'' . . .
Jun 30th, 2006, 08:31 AM
#60
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MK2 - what other countries or cities are not American destinations in your opinion? I imagine that I will want to see all of them during my lifetime so I'd like your list and I will start my planning.
