Modern Athens is a disgrace
Jun 8th, 2006, 11:20 AM
#21
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Panoulis - I got stuck in that strike! What a pain in the &%#T#!!!!! It was the only time I ever really needed to use an Athens taxi becuase I was in a rush and man did I ever get hosed by the guy who did agree to take me from Rafina to the airport. Of course he didn't hold a gun to my head I did with free will get in the taxi but I wont say I enjoyed it - LOL! I am in Corfu and I've got to say the taxis here are some of the worst I've encountered in Greece - can't use them for anything strictly need to stick to the bus which is unfortunate as the close distance between towns should make taxis ideal here.
Cheers,
Murphy
Cheers,
Murphy
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:31 PM
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Jun 13th, 2006, 04:31 PM
#23
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My Athenian adventure continues and I am starting to figure this place out a little more. I stand by my initial point about taxis and service, it is an issue that should be rectified as to not leave tourists with a rotten and lasting first impression!I also experienced the strike, what a farce! Not only should they have to wear seat bealts, they should also have to NOT SMOKE in the cabs. Everyone smokes everywhere here, it's a disgrace. Even Italy has made the adjustment, what's Greece's excuse?
I've figured out that rudeness is pretty much part of the modern Athenian personality. Someone explained it as deep introspection although I have yet to find a poetic or intellectual manifestation flipside. The people don't seem that philosophical, far from it. And resting on laurels only counts for so much. But I now rest my case and will likely start a new posting about the amazing aspects of Athens, because there are some.
I've figured out that rudeness is pretty much part of the modern Athenian personality. Someone explained it as deep introspection although I have yet to find a poetic or intellectual manifestation flipside. The people don't seem that philosophical, far from it. And resting on laurels only counts for so much. But I now rest my case and will likely start a new posting about the amazing aspects of Athens, because there are some.
Jun 13th, 2006, 09:31 PM
#24
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Actually, of about 6-8 cab rides I took in Greece last month, only one of them smoked while I was a passenger. The drivers WERE smokers (cigarette packs in their pockets or dashboards), but apparently many of them are now learning that many Americans prefer "no smoking". Maybe 2004 Olympics had something to do with it.
On my Greece trip in 2000, the cab drivers were nearly always smoking, but if I asked politely in Greek, most of the drivers did not light up a second time.
By virtue of dining outdoors, and picking my table carefully, I was able to enjoy nearly smoke-free dining during my trips.
But in general I'd agree, the Greeks smoke like chimneys. Somewhere recently I read they are europe's heaviest smokers.
On my Greece trip in 2000, the cab drivers were nearly always smoking, but if I asked politely in Greek, most of the drivers did not light up a second time.
By virtue of dining outdoors, and picking my table carefully, I was able to enjoy nearly smoke-free dining during my trips.
But in general I'd agree, the Greeks smoke like chimneys. Somewhere recently I read they are europe's heaviest smokers.
Jun 13th, 2006, 11:06 PM
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I completely agree about the taxi driver situation. Why does the government not <i>do</i> something about it? We did take the train just to avoid them. I did think, with all due respect, that Athens was a bit of a dump but also grew to find it a fascinating place. However, I would prefer to spend my travel money where I'm not feeling so ripped off and where the people are friendlier and happier-looking. Yes, I did research before I went but it didn't help.
Jun 14th, 2006, 01:10 AM
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NorthShore: what makes <b>ME</b> any more <b>judgemental</b> than the OP...becauss I didn't <b>agree</b> with the generalization?
It really is odd that on that last post in which I <b>agreed with you</b> you didn't say a word about my being <b>judgemental</b> so what's with that??????
It really is odd that on that last post in which I <b>agreed with you</b> you didn't say a word about my being <b>judgemental</b> so what's with that??????
Jun 14th, 2006, 03:28 AM
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If the measure of a place is the honesty of its taxi drivers and the smiliness of people on the street,then a whole lot of the world doesn't measure up.
Sometimes it helps to look beneath the surface,"think outside the box" a little bit.I travel to experience different cultures and also to learn about myself.Sometimes it's uncomfortable,but that's part of growing.
Sometimes it helps to look beneath the surface,"think outside the box" a little bit.I travel to experience different cultures and also to learn about myself.Sometimes it's uncomfortable,but that's part of growing.
Jun 20th, 2006, 03:15 PM
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really joiedevivre, just wondering what are you doing in athens for such a long time? You are not here for tourism i suppose. In which area are you staying? Have you visited any place further from the city centre?
About the smoking now...Yes we smoke a lot. Ok it is unhealty, but since it is not illigal, I cannot accept any critisism because we smoke more ciggaretes than the other nations. Are germans a disgrace, because they drink beer like sponges? No!
Of course I agree that there is a problem with smoking inside the restaurants. Smoking and non smoking areas should be stricktly observed.
But I believe the problem is bigger in the US with this unti-smoking hysteria there. Those unti-smoking laws are at least unti-democratic. Why it is illegal to smoke in the park? Please explain to me.
PS. I am a non smoker
About the smoking now...Yes we smoke a lot. Ok it is unhealty, but since it is not illigal, I cannot accept any critisism because we smoke more ciggaretes than the other nations. Are germans a disgrace, because they drink beer like sponges? No!
Of course I agree that there is a problem with smoking inside the restaurants. Smoking and non smoking areas should be stricktly observed.
But I believe the problem is bigger in the US with this unti-smoking hysteria there. Those unti-smoking laws are at least unti-democratic. Why it is illegal to smoke in the park? Please explain to me.
PS. I am a non smoker
Jun 25th, 2006, 02:31 AM
#31
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So I finally left Greece after more than three weeks. My impression of Athens didn't change significantly, although I did learn how to avoid many of the things that bothered me most.
So, in conclusion, I stand by the title statement. There is no reason to go to Athens unless you are going to appreciate what remains from ancient Athens. If you don't appreciate ancient Greek art, I see absolutely zero reason to go into the city. Get to the coast or the islands as fast as you can. I wasn't fortunate enough to make it to the islands but I could tell by the people and the atmosphere in Napflion that coastal life in Greece is an entirely different story!
To respond to some of the feedback:
intrepid1: actually, you were only being sarcastic and judgmental without either disagreeing or offering any points of substance (reread your comment).
massagediva: sounds as if you and tg might be talking about a more psychedelic type of trip
Seriously though, you shouldn't make personal assumptions. I too travel to experience places for what they are and to challenge my perceptions. In this particular case I was traveling for work, not pleasure. In traveling to Athens for work, I learned that it's not a place that's very welcoming and figured I would be helpful to travelers that were considering options for leisure travel. Overall, Athens is stressful, intense and rude; the food is decent at best and service overall is laughable.
If you and tripgirl find it a worthwile experience to spend a pretty penny traveling to a place to be treated poorly, eat mediocre food, and suffer the stress of a large metropolis without the benefit of much diversity (and to be hassled by pimps for LEGAL!! prostitues as soon as it gets dark...or in a foreign woman's case to be mentally undressed by every dude in the neighborhood), I highly recommend Athens as your next stop.
So, in conclusion, I stand by the title statement. There is no reason to go to Athens unless you are going to appreciate what remains from ancient Athens. If you don't appreciate ancient Greek art, I see absolutely zero reason to go into the city. Get to the coast or the islands as fast as you can. I wasn't fortunate enough to make it to the islands but I could tell by the people and the atmosphere in Napflion that coastal life in Greece is an entirely different story!
To respond to some of the feedback:
intrepid1: actually, you were only being sarcastic and judgmental without either disagreeing or offering any points of substance (reread your comment).
massagediva: sounds as if you and tg might be talking about a more psychedelic type of trip
Seriously though, you shouldn't make personal assumptions. I too travel to experience places for what they are and to challenge my perceptions. In this particular case I was traveling for work, not pleasure. In traveling to Athens for work, I learned that it's not a place that's very welcoming and figured I would be helpful to travelers that were considering options for leisure travel. Overall, Athens is stressful, intense and rude; the food is decent at best and service overall is laughable.
If you and tripgirl find it a worthwile experience to spend a pretty penny traveling to a place to be treated poorly, eat mediocre food, and suffer the stress of a large metropolis without the benefit of much diversity (and to be hassled by pimps for LEGAL!! prostitues as soon as it gets dark...or in a foreign woman's case to be mentally undressed by every dude in the neighborhood), I highly recommend Athens as your next stop.
Jun 25th, 2006, 06:41 AM
#33
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joiedevivre; As a young man (19-21) I lived outside Athens from '73-'75 on a small US military base.
I quickly learned Greek and had a few Athenian guy friends, we rode motorcycles together which is how we met, played basketball billards etc, hit the nightclubs and picked-up tourist girls or at least tried very hard.
My American buddy married an Athens girl and I was very close friends with her entire family and my last year I had a Athenian girlfriend.
I've slept and eat many times in all my friends homes.
I had the best times in my life in Athens also fell in love there for the 1st time and I still smile at all the wonderful memories.
But I went back in '99 (3 days) and '00 (6 days) to Athens as a tourist.
And my experiences were mostly negative and I was very deeply saddened. Sometimes I wish I had never returned to the city where I had such fond memories.
Those are my *honest* feelings which I'm neither going to defend or debate with anyone only because these type threads can drag-on and I usually stay out of them but did throw my 2-cents in on this one. Regards, Walter
I quickly learned Greek and had a few Athenian guy friends, we rode motorcycles together which is how we met, played basketball billards etc, hit the nightclubs and picked-up tourist girls or at least tried very hard
.My American buddy married an Athens girl and I was very close friends with her entire family and my last year I had a Athenian girlfriend.
I've slept and eat many times in all my friends homes.
I had the best times in my life in Athens also fell in love there for the 1st time
and I still smile at all the wonderful memories.But I went back in '99 (3 days) and '00 (6 days) to Athens as a tourist.
And my experiences were mostly negative and I was very deeply saddened. Sometimes I wish I had never returned to the city where I had such fond memories.
Those are my *honest* feelings which I'm neither going to defend or debate with anyone only because these type threads can drag-on and I usually stay out of them but did throw my 2-cents in on this one
. Regards, Walter
Jun 25th, 2006, 08:03 AM
#34
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I thought the whole point of this board is for people to post their observations and travel experiences, be it negative or positive or somewhere in between?
Those who condescend to posters who they think are not open minded are showing their own narrow mindedness and overly critical selves.
Those who condescend to posters who they think are not open minded are showing their own narrow mindedness and overly critical selves.
Jun 26th, 2006, 10:38 PM
#36
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Massagediva, have you not read anything other than the title (which by the way specifies "modern" Athens)?
And I stand by the title as a concise and straightforward introduction to the opinion that I expressed within the forum.
Personally, I read travel forums for practical information and the opinion of other travelers not patronizing morality lessons.
And I stand by the title as a concise and straightforward introduction to the opinion that I expressed within the forum.
Personally, I read travel forums for practical information and the opinion of other travelers not patronizing morality lessons.
Jun 26th, 2006, 10:57 PM
#37
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Athens IS a disgrace. It's still dirty, and many of its citizens are grumpy. It also has many good points.
I can't understand why so many posters are so upset that joiedevivre is pointing out this glimpse of the spectacularly obvious.
Helpful posters on this board tell the truth as they find it. Uncritical (or in the modern fad, "non-judgemental"
wittering helps no-one.
I can't understand why so many posters are so upset that joiedevivre is pointing out this glimpse of the spectacularly obvious.
Helpful posters on this board tell the truth as they find it. Uncritical (or in the modern fad, "non-judgemental"
wittering helps no-one.
Jun 27th, 2006, 01:36 AM
#38
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"Athens would be the last place in the world anyone would want to visit."
You're talking utter nonsense. If people only wished to visit DisneyLand resorts where everything is done for you, the world would be a lesser place. Your warning is rather like advising people to only eat baby food, and heaven forbid, anything with raw eggs in.
I was in Athens a couple of years ago, and found it to be an incredibly charming city, full of warm citizens. It is stylish, traditional, and a city proud of its heritage. I was also "conned" by a taxi driver who got an extra 5EUR out of the deal, but so what? It's so cheap there anyway, I don't begrudge a taxi driver making 5EUR on me.
In my opinion, Athens is far more interesting a place than Paris, it has a distinctly "untouristy" feel, and somewhere I felt instantly at ease, and at home in. Also, who wants insincere "have a nice day" smiles? If someone doesn't wish to smile, then I'd much rather a miserable face than one of these plastered grins that Americans seem so dreadfully fond of.
Grow up and go back to Disneyland!
You're talking utter nonsense. If people only wished to visit DisneyLand resorts where everything is done for you, the world would be a lesser place. Your warning is rather like advising people to only eat baby food, and heaven forbid, anything with raw eggs in.
I was in Athens a couple of years ago, and found it to be an incredibly charming city, full of warm citizens. It is stylish, traditional, and a city proud of its heritage. I was also "conned" by a taxi driver who got an extra 5EUR out of the deal, but so what? It's so cheap there anyway, I don't begrudge a taxi driver making 5EUR on me.
In my opinion, Athens is far more interesting a place than Paris, it has a distinctly "untouristy" feel, and somewhere I felt instantly at ease, and at home in. Also, who wants insincere "have a nice day" smiles? If someone doesn't wish to smile, then I'd much rather a miserable face than one of these plastered grins that Americans seem so dreadfully fond of.
Grow up and go back to Disneyland!
Jun 29th, 2006, 05:43 AM
#39
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My son and I just returned from Athens a couple of days ago and seeing this post, I feel compelled to reply....
Athens both exceeded my expectations and disappointed me at the same time. I found the city itself to be dirty and somewhat dangerous. We spent about two and a half days there which isn't probably enough time to say we've seen it all, but certainly enough to know that aside from the major attractions, there wasn't much of a reason to linger.
Having said that, my son and I both felt that the people of Athens were among the nicest, most generous and most gracious of the people we met on our trip. We were greeted by shop owners and restaruant owners as we strolled the Plaka. People went out of their way to help us with directions (one owner even closed his shop and TOOK US to the nearest ATM!). One taxi driver gave us an unsolicited 3 hour tour of the high points of Athens. It was exciting to see how much pride he had for his city and his Greek heritage and the fact that we had taken in interest in the things that were important to him seemed to spur him on. He turned out to be on of the best tour guides we had on our entire trip!
I love the spirit of the people of Athens. Certainly there are rude people there, just like there are rude people all over the world. And if you look for them and expect them, you surely will not be disappointed.
Melissa
Athens both exceeded my expectations and disappointed me at the same time. I found the city itself to be dirty and somewhat dangerous. We spent about two and a half days there which isn't probably enough time to say we've seen it all, but certainly enough to know that aside from the major attractions, there wasn't much of a reason to linger.
Having said that, my son and I both felt that the people of Athens were among the nicest, most generous and most gracious of the people we met on our trip. We were greeted by shop owners and restaruant owners as we strolled the Plaka. People went out of their way to help us with directions (one owner even closed his shop and TOOK US to the nearest ATM!). One taxi driver gave us an unsolicited 3 hour tour of the high points of Athens. It was exciting to see how much pride he had for his city and his Greek heritage and the fact that we had taken in interest in the things that were important to him seemed to spur him on. He turned out to be on of the best tour guides we had on our entire trip!
I love the spirit of the people of Athens. Certainly there are rude people there, just like there are rude people all over the world. And if you look for them and expect them, you surely will not be disappointed.
Melissa
