mattfesta

Anyone that can help!

I just recently received a job offer from a company in Milan. The guy that I interviewed with is an American that has lived in Italy for about 3 years, and says that he loves it. They made me an offer of 1300 Euros a month AFTER taxes and my accomodation is paid for (i.e. no rent), and I want to know if this will be enough for a single person to live on and still be able have some fun.

Is 1300 Euros a month after taxes and rent a decent amount in Milan? Does anyone know what would be considered an "average" salary?

I am very excited about this offer, but I don't want to jump on it unless I know I will be able to actually experience the wonderful Italian city that I am living in with the money I make!

Thanks ahead of time!

Matt

Traveler863

Matt,
What type of work? 1300 Euros a month even after taxes and accomo paid is not much, it would be a struggle in my opinion.

nytraveler

What else is included?

Do you have to pay utilities? Does that include rent on a fully furnished apartment? Or will you have to furnish? Or just provide linens, kitchen equip etc? You don;t plan to have a car do you (can;t imagine you could cover cost of car, gas and insurance)? Have they told you what type of accomodation/where it will be - and are you comfortable with it? Do you plan on cooking at home most of the time? Or eating out all the time?

Perhaps if you provide more info others could give you a better idea - but it doesn;t sound like enough to me!

russ_i

Hi Matt. I lived in Bologna from 1997 - 99 and made about 1300 Euro after taxes, but then paid half an apartment at 350 Euro out of that. My partner made sa bit more than me which paid utilities, and we split food, etc. We had enough money for occasional eating out and day trips, but found that we wanted to do a lot of traveling once we were there, especially when we knew we were coming home. We ended up going into savings for that. Keep in mind that 1300 Euro is about $1560, which is less than $19,000 per year, so not exactly rolling in the dough, but you without a car, insurance, or gasoline, you will knock off 20% of your costs right there. No housing cuts another 30%. I don't know if 1300 is an average salary, but you can live on it.

I wouldn't trade our two years for anything. Let us know what you decide.

Russ

P.S. Have you been to Milan? I love Italy, and there are lots of great places to see near by, but Milan would not be my favorite place to live, especially for its dreary winters, but I am a sunny So. Cal boy, so what do I know.

russ_i

After reading the other replies to this message, which were posted as I was typing mine, I thought that perhaps I should put more detail in my reply.

We had two people sharing a one bedroom apartment of about 500 square feet with a nice terrazza. The size was fairly typical and it was considered quite nice by most of our Italian friends, although rather Spartan by US standards. We shipped 14 boxes over, but this was paid for buy one of our companies. We had to buy dishes, linens, etc. The apartment was furnished, but we bought a washer, after getting sick of the laudermatte, and at 8 euro per load, it paid for itself quickly.

Struggle and comfort are such relative terms. 7 years ago I was ready for an adventure, so I didn't mind a little inconveinence, but the fact is that we are very lucky to have so much space and comfort in the US. Please don't go expecting to find the same degree of accomodation that you find here.

What you will find is that you can linger a table in a beautiful piazza all night for the price of a coffee. Or spend hours in the Brera Museum for the price of a ticket. Lake Como? An hour's train ride away.

Also, Italians expect to eat good food at any price point. Find the local Osteria for great regional specialties that would cost you $75 per person at home, and you will laugh at the absurdly low prices.

It can be done. Have fun.

sbp17

I certainly think it can be done even with some traveling thrown in (all the low-cost European airlines fly through Milan). I think the two most critical questions to fully understanding your situation is (1) do you have to pay utilities and (2) what will you do about transportation? But regardless of the answers, I think 1300 euro after taxes and free rent is definitely enough as long as you don't expect to buy Versace and D&G every weekend.

I live in Southern Italy where the cost of living is much less. Some of my Italian friends make less than that and still manage.

For those people who say 'no', can you provide a breakout of monthly costs that would cause Matt to exceed this amount? Utilities, groceries, insurance and gas should not be more than 1000 euro a month.

LoveItaly

mattfesta, first of all I love Milan, even though a lot of people don't.
It is very smoggy though, a recent health report stated that the air in Milan is like smoking 12 to 15 cigarettes a day. Maybe or maybe not a problem for you.

Next consideration. The accomodation. An apartment I assume. What location. Not all areas in Milano are desirable. So do check into this. And is the accomodation an apartment. Assume it is, but do check. An besides the location what size. And is it furnished. If so, what is the furniture like, especially the bed/mattress.

If not furnished please be aware that tenants in Italy have to furnish everything for their accomodations including the kitchen sink. I kid you not!! The sink, the cabinets and counters, the closets etc. Very very different than in the US where I assume you are from

I have a friend with an university degree that works for a well known company in Italy. He makes equivilant in US dollars $45,000.00 (again in US dollars).

He can only afford to rent a "dump' as he calls it with two other roommates.

Inflation has really hit Europe. A pizza that use to cost 6 Euro now cost 12 Euro. A pizza for one person.
Just one small example.

Think another poster asked if utilities would be covered in the rent free accomadations. Be sure to ask. IMHO probably not. Utilities get very expensive.

Do you have any thoughts of traveling while in Milan. Check out prices for this.

Not to sound negative but you seemed to want to know hard cold facts which is good.

Have you asked about your working hours.

I have no idea what type of work you will be doing or what type of company you will work for. But this I know, the siesta, 2 or 3 hours off for lunch no longer exsist for big city employees.
And it is typical to work until 8:00pm or later if you are working in an office.

I feel like I am sounding negative and please believe me that is not my intention.

Maybe this is a good way to look at the situation. Could you live in NY, SF or any other high price city in the US with the salary you would receive in Italy after taxes and not paying rent (assuming the accomodations situation was suitable for you). If the answer is yes than another thought --

Please talk to a CPA about taxes in US (an American workiing it Italy), what is the situation. And talk to an accountant in Italy to make sure that the details you are being told about taxes there are accurate.

Milan is a very expensive city. Everything cost more than in a smaller town, just as in the USA

I wish you the best and hope you check out details before making a commiment.

nellyanne

Mattifesta. Now don't let LoveItaly and the others get you down. She twice says she does not want to be negative, that should make you wonder. She was vry negative, though she tried to be "helpful." Some of these people are so spoiled and pampered that they would have never made it in my day! Think of how the people lives there during the great wars. If you are not as decadent as most of those who use this site, you can live there with joy and dignity and be happy! Many of these posters are weaklings who must travel first class and drone on and on about their five star restaurants and hotels. It is actually very revolting not to mention boring. If you go you will experience the true Milanese lifestyle in all its depth. And by the way, the food is outstanding there and it's close not only to the lakes but the Italian Riviera which is pretty. I was there in the 30s as a young woman. Go to the Last Supper if you can and visit all the trendy shops if you are that sort. Let me know if you go, I will kight a candle for you at my local cathedral.

nellyanne

PS. If you look at LoveItaly's post and the rigid way it is layed and and the words she uses, I think may be suffering a little OCD so don't mind her. I will pray for her also!

LoveItaly

mattfesta, please do whatever works for you. But may I suggest you check out Nellyanne by clicking on her name.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you the very best.

Traveler863

Nellyanne,
With all do respect Loveitaly layed it out quite nicely. Those are all the things one needs to consider, and there was no mention of living in luxury, just the basics.

This is not the days of the "great wars", thus living conditions and jobs are a different ball of wax.

BTW, I like my first class travel at times where I have the opportunity, such as upgrades with airlines or just get a wild hair for a 5* hotel for a night or two....but do I spend my whole vacation in the lap of luxury? NO I'm quite happy and if not probably downright happiest with that simple room with a view.

nellyanne

Thanks Traveler for your "do" respect. Now I do not mean to question LoveItlay, but I just wonder a bit with a person who rambles a little too much and repeatedly questions her own analysis and negativity. Call me old-fashioned, but I usually go for a more direct, less meandering type of response.

No Traveler, I see nothing wrong with an occasional "treat" but many of these posters are overly-intellectual and frankly spoiled goods who would not be able to handle the least hardship whithout whining. It's part of the greater breakdown of the fabric of our society.

Traveler863

Nellyanne,
With further respect, Loveitaly's post was absolutely not rambling nor questioning her own analysis. Rather, it was direct and complete especially to someone comtemplating such a move. If anything sounded negative well thats life, not everything is a garden party.

People these days spoiled? Well I can't disagree there, life is certainly better than is was even 30 years ago when I was a kid vs 60 years at least from your perspective. Can we handle hardships? Well we have, though not to same magnitude nor as lengthy. But when put to the test, of course...everyone deals with what they are dealt, thats human nature.

taggie

Traveler - check out Nellyanne's other posts. Don't get sucked in - he/she is out to get everyone going with wacky posts, and also seems to have developed a bit of a need to badger LoveItaly. Some of the posts are entertaining to read but you need to take everything he/she says with a huge grain of salt.

Traveler863

Taggie,
I've read nellyanne's other posts. Quite honestly I don't find anything terribly wacky about them but rather find them normal and playful for someone at around 90...which I beleive from posts. I don't see any developing need to badger Loveitaly but she simply disagreed and had her opinion and beleive me 90 year olds have alot of opinions! I could be wrong but this is my take.

sognatrice2

mattfesta,
sometime a serious question in the opening post can turn so quickly into bickering back and forth between others, and it seems to me you would be better served by a focus on practical suggestions. There are a few of the more obvious good ones here, such as those by russ_1, but then that esperience was more than 5 years ago.
Here's a link to a website you might find much more useful than a travel site for this kind of information-and probably more up-to date.
www.expatexchange.com
it has all kinds of detailed information, and links as well as forums where you can post your questions and talk to others who might be of direct help.

I hope you go for it, whatever the inconveniences you encounter (that goes with the territory). There are many of us with this dream, best of luck to you!!

mattfesta

Simply Amazing.

I had no idea that a simple question would bring on this kind of response. I expected no response, MAYBE one reply to my question, but 16?!

So, all of you have given me a lot to think about and I am VERY glad that I posted here. I accepted going into this situation that I was ignorant and that I would need outside sources to get an "objective" grasp of the situation. Hence my post on this site.

I am still talking with the potential employer, so now I am armed with a great deal more information to help get a grasp of what I'm getting into. I'll send the employer an email tomorrow and ask about some of these topics that you've helped to inform me about, and I'll post again once I have more info.

Just so that you all have an idea of the lifestyle I am talking about -

I don't expect to have a car. I would take whatever local transportation (including walking) that was available. I would buy a moped/scooter for commuting if I could afford it.

I want health insurance. This should be a given.

I will be living in Milan, not visiting short-term. If I could become acclimated, I assume that I could eat and enterain myself cheaply. I DO NOT require five stars! I am more interested in people than anything else, and meeting interesting people is the cheapest hobby in the world...

I like to drink and socialize, but I would rather sit in a quiet pub with a few locals than party in a rowdy nightclub.

Hopefully this gives a little more background. I will keep you all posted about the employer's response...

Matt


I like to drink, but I dislike the overly crowded club scene. Drinking out at pubs with the local group is how I like to socialize, and I like to do it frequently.

I don't need "stuff", although if I were in Milan I would probably buy some clothes. I assume, however, that one can dress well without having to buy Versace.

taggie

hmmm traveller - I just find a few things about nellyanne's posts odd. First, she only started yesterday and jumped right in twisting peoples' screen names in some not-very-nice ways (Poohgirl became Poopgirl and I'm sure it was NOT a typo; also haniksday to honsuckgoonday and hansuckgoon- that sounds more like it came from an adolescent guy!).
Then, there seems to be quite a fixation with talking about private parts, losing things in her privates, her "nest" etc. and cracks about her "movements" and Depends.... these are the kinds of things guys make jokes about in the locker room.
But as I said, it makes for som entertaining reading.

mattfesta

Oh yeah, I forgot some stuff (and repeated some stuff) on the last post.

The job is computer related - I design video games. The employer will be paying for my moving expenses, so my furniture (the few items that I have - bed, desk, stereo, computer) will be coming with me at the employers expense...

I will ask about the rest...

BTilke

I work for a company headquartered on the eastern end of Milan (Lambrate), although I live in Belgium (an am about to move to the UK). It is an expensive city; however, if you are young and flexible, then you could get by on 1300 euros "pocket money" if the employer really means that figure is your take home pay after all taxes AND other "contributions" are paid (not all deductions from your paycheck are for taxes). And they will provide an apartment in a decent area (including utilities, especially a high speed internet connection) with decent facilities, i.e., a kitchen that you can actually cook in (some apartments come with "mini kitchens"--just two burners and microwave, no real oven, find out what kind of facilities are with this apartment). Who chooses the apartment? What happens if it's unsuitable--will the company pay for another place if you need to move? Are they really paying for the apartment or are they just offering a housing allowance?
Will the employer also be giving you the standard 5 weeks paid vacation plus the "13th month" salary? (I don't know if that is the norm in Italy, but it is the norm here in Belgium and other European countries).
Since you design video games, also check your contract carefully about the company's noncompete clauses or intellectual property ownership clauses after you leave them. Other things to check are how easily and under what conditions the company can terminate your employment. The contract should include a clause that at the end of your employment, they will pay for your return to the U.S. (or wherever you're from) and the shipping of your belongings back to the U.S.
I suggest you contact a few expat groups and pick up ASAP a copy of Living and Working in Italy: A Survival Handbook by Graeme Chesters.