Dee dee (your trip)
 

Sounds wonderful! Looking forward to hearing about how it went. I'm a big fan of Venice but never been to Naples. Also would like to see the almafi coast.


Lynn

Deedee, it took about 12 (24?) hours for Naples to really grab me, but once it did...loved it. We arrived straight from the countryside, so Naples was like a bracing slap to the face! Woke me up for sure. :D

Yes, definitely intriguing. If we could only figure out the why. I also scratch my head when visiting a place I loved the first time but the second time just doesn't measure up to the memories.

I'm a fan of Tuscany and north, but I've never been south of Rome. So, this will be interesting. I too have never been to the Amalfi Coast but have been to the Cinque Terre 3 times and loved it. I do wonder how they will compare and contrast. BTW, I've also got 5 nights in Capri too!

LOL! I will give it at least 24 hours before rendering an opinion. At my age, I'll fall in love with anything that grabs me!

Barcelona is the prominent example for me - have been 3 times - like it but don't love it as so many others apparently do.

lol.

I would say that Naples is quintessential Italy. It's the home of pizza, the Commedia dell'Arte (Harlequin, Pulcinella, Pierrot, et. al.), the mandolin, the tombola (a bingo-like game played all over Italy, especially around Christmas), and the Neapolitan songs. What do the gondoliers in Venice sing? Neapolitan songs!

I've never met any Italian who would say Naples isn't part of Italy!

What on earth kind of business were you engaged in?

Venice and Milan are so different that it's not easy to compare them.

Venice is so beautiful, it's magical, everyone should see Venice at least once in their lives. There's no city like Venice in the world. I don't feel compelled to return to Venice often. It's not only crowded much of the year (and with miserable weather frequently when it's not crowded). It's also overpriced and there is a tendency to treat badly anyone who doesn't have a Venetian accent.

If you go to Venice, you should go in the less-crowded months, stay for a night or two, and get off the overly-beaten tourist trail.

Milan is an entirely different city, vibrant, worldly, innovative, and sophisticated. In some ways, including its trams, it reminds me of some Northern European cities. For music and art, it has no peers in Italy. (I know, I know, Florence has the world's greatest concentration of Italian Renaissance art, but in Milan you can see art from all times and places.) The Brera Gallery is a jewel, for example, and the Palazzo Reale (pre-Covid) usually had three fantastic exhibits going on at once. Right now, they have an exhibit of Margaret Bourke-White's work and life, but the Palazzo is closed until further notice, although it should be re-opening very soon. In the past, we've seen exhibits of Van Gogh, Chagall, and many others. The Scala, of course, has world class music of all sorts, and not just opera. We attended a concert by the famous pianist Daniel Barenboim one year at La Scala.

In the past ten years, Milan has had a sort of Renaissance, especially in architecture and city planning. It's worth going again if the last time you saw it was more than ten years ago.

Milan also has some of Italy's (and the world's) oldest churches and basilicas. The Basilica of Sant'Ambrogio (Saint Ambrose) and the Basilica of San Lorenzo (Saint Lawrence) date from late Roman times, although most of what you can see now is only about 1000 years old. (San Lorenzo has more early features conserved in its interior.)

Many people don't know that Milan has an enormous well-preserved medieval castle right in the center of town, the Castello Sforzesco. There are several museums inside the castle, with rotating exhibits. The castle and its museums have re-opened this month.

Milan even has it's own canal zone, the Naviglio Grande, where there are lots of trendy bars and restaurants, and where you can take a boat ride. In the summer, they have combination boat-bike tours on the canal. (We've never done it, but it sounds like fun.)

The atmospere in Milan around Christmas time is magical. The Feast of Sant'Ambrogio, December 7th, is a municipal holiday, and the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, December 8th, is a national holiday. There are all sorts of events in Milan for these holidays, including a big fair called Obey, Obey. (Nothing to do with obedience; it's Milanese dialect for (O bello! o bello!) and indeed for the whole Christmas season. We saw just a tiny part of the fair, because it's not really our cup of tea. There's also usually a fair of artisanal works from all over the world in December. Friends of ours used to go every year for that.

Throughout the Christnas season, they have trams decorated with Christmas lights, and musicians playing traditional Italian instruments and singing old Italian Christmas songs in the Piazza del Duomo. There are special concerts and art exhibits. Usually there is a free exhibit of a really major work of art in the Palazzo Marino, across from the Scala. For example, one year they had Leonardo da Vinci's John the Baptist, on loan from the Louvre. There is usually a long line for this free exhibit, but it's worth it. Another year, on the day of the Feast of Sant'Ambrogio, we were able to see the Last Supper free and without a reservation. I don't know it they do this every year, but otherwise it's very difficult to get a reservation for the Last Supper unless you buy an expensive all-day tour of the city. We lined up very early in the morning, but we only had to wait a little over half an hour to get in.

Before we got locked down, we usually went to Milan at least once a year, and I really miss Milan.

❤ Venice.

Thin,aristocrat 🦌

Dee Dee
 

Whst is Cinqe Terre like and the other one you mentioned?


Lynn

Mass tourism has spoiled some great destinations for me... Places I first visited and loved decades ago are less appealing with each subsequent visit. Suffocating crowds, traffic, the fact that so many locals speak English (including slang), the loss of residential housing in historical centers, all contribute to a feeling that a place has lost its unique identity (at least in my mind). I used to describe myself as a 'city person,' but I purposely avoid spending a lot of time in big cities now. If I've been there before, I'm almost always disappointed by how much it has changed for the worse.

The Cinque Terre is a string of 5 small picturesque villages connected by hiking trails along the coast of the Ligurian Sea. See pictures here: https://www.google.com/search?q=cinq...biw=1366&hl=en

The Amalfi Coast is the dramatic coast in southern Italy. See pictures here: https://www.google.com/search?q=amal...biw=1366&hl=en

I absolutely concur that mass tourism has had a negative impact on the places we visited and loved decades ago (my first trip was exactly 50 years ago!). You are so right about suffocating crowds! I too do more stays away from big cities and more visits in the shoulder and off seasons as well. Still, I'm so very happy to visit 3 to 4 times a year and will continue to do so as long as I can.

The Cinque Terre and Amalfi Coast are very picturesque. But if you visit in high-season summer, all you may remember are the enormous crowds of tourists packed into tiny streets.

We were in CT in May 2017. During the day, lots of tourists in the streets, but in the evening it empties out quite a bit. We stayed in a rental in Manarola, near Trattoria Dal Billy, a bit away from the lower parts closer to the water, so less tourists in the area (except those going to eat at Billy's).. I wanted to visit there while still able to handle lots of stairs and hills! It's well worth seeing...and the sunsets....

So far nobody has posted that they don’t like Venice so I don’t even know why that’s even a question. Every time you see the Grand Canal on a bright sunny day it’s magical.

First time I visited Venice I was staying at a little apartment near Campo San Bartolomeo. The first night I went down to San Marco which was completely empty, dimly lit too. On the way back the vaporetto wasn’t jam packed but there was a guy standing next to me trying to reach into a zippered pocket in my messenger bag.

I just moved away from him but the only thing I had in there was my check book, which I had forgotten to leave back home.

Otherwise I recall stealing WiFi because the place I was staying in didn’t have it — it was just starting to be used. And I liked walking to nearby Strada Nova to find a cafe instead of walking across the Rialto. It was much less crowded on Strada Nova then across the Rialto. Loved one of the museums on the GRand Canal, in the upper floors they had these small windows looking out over the Canal.

I’ve only stayed in Milan once. Probably didn’t see enough of it but didn’t have a good experience leaving for the airport. Got up early to get to the bus stop near the stazione and it was mobbed with people cutting in line. Didn’t make the first bus which arrived and was worried about missing the flight. Didn’t miss the flight but was annoyed the airport was so far away.

The main thing about Milan is that it’s a gateway to more glamorous destinations like the lakes and more charming little towns. On that trip I stayed in Varenna and day tripped to Bergamo, Lugano, which are more appealing places to visit for many people.

I haven’t flown through MXP again since.

Dee Dee
 

Dee dee,

I see what you mean. I would like to explore quaint coastal towns and .maybe some historic sites.

Lynn

scrb11, there is now a train to the airport. It's still a fairly long trip and the train makes other stops, but it's pretty trouble-free.

It sounds as though you haven't been to Milan in at least ten years. I suggest you return, because you might have a better appreciation of the city this time.

I've been to Lake Como and Lake Lugano, and to tell you the truth, I prefer Milan. For me, Lake Como is the gateway to Milan.

Lake Como is the only place in Italy where a waitress asked us if we could please speak English.

I would probably enjoy the Duomo rooftop. I liked the Milan episode on the Stanley Tucci show. I did a lot of the museums years ago and they don't quite have the appeal for me that they used to have but I'd guess I'd visit them.

Milan for me is kind of like Zurich is to the Berner Oberland, an international gateway to other attractions in the region. Though I have spent a day or two in Zurich and Lake Zurich cruise is really nice in the summer, as is certain parts of the city, like along the river on the way to the Lake.


https://www.planetware.com/tourist-a...lan-i-lo-m.htm

If nothing else, I got a better camera for attractions like the Duomo and the Galleria.