zeppole

ps: a lot of wineries ship abroad.

Big_Red

Lewissh,

Here are some thoughts-
First a rough itinerary
April 29

Big_Red

Mea Culpa (hit the wrong key).
April 29 Day 1 - Jet lag and get settled
April 30 Day 2 - Rome, some type of tour -group or personal
May 1 Day 3 - Rome, finish touring by yourself
May 2 Day 4 - pick up car, destination Tuscany
I have consulted the books in my travel library. Arezzo and Siena seem to be the recommended home base alternatives. But my research is not finished.
You might end up getting the car at the airport - always open.
May 3 Day 5 - Daytrips/ small towns in Tuscany
May 4 Day 6 - Daytrips/ small towns in Tuscany
May 5 Day 7 - Travel to Venice, stash car at Piazza Roma garage.
May 6 Day 8 - Tour Venice
May 7 Day 9 - Tour Venice
May 8 Day 10 - Begin to go home. Drive the car to Stresa on Lake Maggiore. I have no personal experince with this but Stresa is often recommended for people flying out of Malpensa.
May 9 Day 11 - 7:00am leave Stresa for Malpensa

I don't like the idea of driving Venice to Milan in the morning and having to be at the airport by 8:30 or 9:00. You have to drive across northern Milan during their am rush hour. Simplify and go to Lake Maggiore.

The Chianticlassico organization has a road map with all the chianti wineries. I got mine by mail. Unfortunately they don't have this map on their website. Guidebooks for Tuscany: Thomas Cook, Michelin and Touring Club Italia. There should be some winery books availabe from Amazon.

On driving in Rome and Italy's major cities. Avoid it if possible - too stressful for a vacation. You don't know the layout, nothing will be familiar, the street signs are small marble plaques - hard to even see, much less read from a distance. Lots of one-way streets. Parking is very hard to procure. Despite your hopes, you will be the navigator and you will be having 'fun' just like the driver. Conversely, driving out in the country is nothing to be concerned about

lewissh3

Wow...such great replies...thanks everyone!

I think I would really regret not going to Venice so I will have to comtemplate whether or not to take the train there from Florence or drive. How long does it take by train?

Again, we are trying use our award points/miles so that's factoring into the itinerary somewhat (Rome 2 ngts, flying out of Milan).

I've driven in Dublin and if Rome's anything close to that then we'll be picking up the car outside of Rome. However, everytime I try to schedule it out of Orvieto for example it says the station is closed even though it's within the operating hours....odd...maybe it's just to early yet so I'm not going to worry about it too much.

Does anyone know the website for the trains you mention to/from Venice? I'd like to check the timetables to see if it would be doable to take the train May 9 without cutting it too close.

ellenem

Forence to Venice is 3 hour by fastest train.

Research trains at the link below, but scedules for May will not be posted for a number of months. the shcedules dont change that much, so just linput a day next week that is the same day of theweek you plan to travel in May.

http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/homepage_en.html

ellenem

And if you meant to train from Venice to Milan THE SAME DAY to catch your flight . . . that is a very bad idea. It will take a minimum of 4 hours and two connections--anything can go wrong. It's better to be close to Milan the night before.

Big_Red

For european trains go to google. Type in 'Die Bahn English'. For me this is the easiest website for trains. Where a city has more than one train station, it will ask to specify which station you mean. I usually just guess or bluff at that.

Ellenm - the original idea was to sleep in Venice and do a 10:30am departure from Malpensa (chuckle).

Lewsish - Typically the rental car counters at the major airports are open 7 X 24. Some companies charge a premium for airport locations but your choices are few. Regarding a May 8th departure from Venice - if you left your Venice hotel at 2:30am, then this might work but you have to research the exact connections yourself. Alternatively, there might be a low $ buck flight to Malpensa. But the simple way is to sleep somewhere within easy access to Malpensa

lewissh3

OK, to avoid the Sat/Sun car issue (in addition to this first weekend being Labour Day), because Venice hotels seem to be cheaper at the beginning of the trip then at the end I'm revising the itinerary. Let me know what you think!

April 28 - Leave home
April 29 - Arrive MXP (Milan)at 10:30 am, take train to Venice and stay the night in Venice
April 30 - Tour Venice
May 1 - take a commuter flight from Venice to Rome and stay the night in Rome
May 2 - Tour Rome
May 3 - Tour Rome and then take train to Orvieto/other town in Umbria and stay the night
May 4 - pick up car in Orvieto and drive to Tuscany, stay the night in San Gimignano
May 5 - San Gimignano/tour Tuscany
May 6 - San Gimigano/tour Tuscany
May 7 - Leave San G, drive along coast to Genova, stay night. Any suggestions for where to stay in Genova area?
May 8 - Drive to Piedmont (1.5 hr drive), stay night in...Asti? Other options in Piedmont?
May 9 - If we stayed in Asti it is 1.5 hr drive to MXP Airport. Leave Asti/Piedmont around 6:30-7:00 am to arrive MXP 8:00-8:30 am to catch 10:30 am flight home. How is traffic in this area?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

lewissh3

Another question: on May 1, what time do you think we should leave for Rome? (i.e. More time in Venice or more time in Rome?)

toni_g_b

We just returned from a two week road trip to Italy including a three night stay in Genova at Best Western Hotel Metropoli. It was a nice hotel with a good size room and large bathroom. Terrific breakfast. Lovely staff who spoke English. And a perfect location - Piazza Fontane Marose. Although there's no parking at the property, you can drive up to the entrance, drop off your luggage, then take the car to a nearby parking garage and walk back to the hotel. From there most everything is easily walkable.

Also, a fair portion of the trip was spent in the Piemonte - Torino and Alba - with a flight out of MXP at the end. We had hoped to stop in Asti on the way to our MXP hotel but it was market day, Wednesday, and it was a zoo. If there was parking we couldn't find it. And we didn't get any old town vibe from it. It's a pretty good size city. So we looked at the map and headed for Casale Monferrato. Now this was charming! And then a stop in Vigevano to see the most beautiful piazza in Italy - the advertising doesn't lie. Then spent the night at a hotel in Cardano al Campo just minutes from Malpensa on the same highway.

lewissh3

Toni_g_b: would you recommend staying overnight in Vigevano?

Mimar

I like your new itinerary. It's much better for dealing with jet lag. Although I'd be inclined to take a train from Venice to Rome rather than a plane -- to avoid the fuss of getting to and from the airport and to look at the scenery along the way. Actually, both Venice Marco Polo and Fiumicino are relatively easy airports to access.

And I'd still like to see more time in Rome. But I heartily concur with going to Venice.

Do you really want to go into Genoa proper? There's lots of lovely towns along the Ligurian coast south of Genoa, including the Cinque Terre. But, once again, this area and the city of Genoa are better seen using public transportation.

And do you really want to see the Piemonte or are you trying to find a way to justify the car up to the time you leave?

You could drop the car as you leave Tuscany, train to Genoa and/or points south, then train back to Milan for the last night before your flight home. This would mean fewer changes of accommodation, more time in one area. Which most of us consider desirable.

ellenem

I, too, would take the train from Venice to Rome. Yes, the ride is 4.5 hours, but that's from city center to city center. While the duration for the flight may be shorter, getting to the airport in Venice, checking in by the appropriate time, dealing with security, waiting around, dealing with the Rome airport, and getting into the city center will take the same if not more time. Since you plan to travel on May 1, I suggest you book your train ticket as soon as you arrive in Italy.

toni_g_b

Lewissh3, I would have loved to have spent our last night in Vigevano if we had known better. And you don't mind getting up a little earlier. It's a lovely town and I imagine the evening passagiata in that wondrous piazza would be something special.
If you decide to go, download the personal .mp3 guide and maps at this site
http://www.itineranet.it/vigevano/index_eng.html
It fleshes out the experience.
(And, as an aside, just in case you don't know, the rental cars are returned at terminal one at MXP. We managed to guess right when given an option for two terminals on the road signs but there was that momentary panic of not knowing.)

Vttraveler

I think the itinerary starting in Venice with car pick up in Orvieto is a lot better than the original plan. it is only 1 hour by train so you could add more time in Rome by staying there the night of May 3rd then taking an early train to Orvieto. I think you will regret having such a short time in Rome. Even two full days will seem very rushed, and you will just have to pick and choose what you want to see.

I agree with others that train from Venice to Rome would be more pleasant than getting to and from the two airports for the short flight

lewissh3

Tweaked the itinerary some more:
April 28 - leave home
April 29 - Arrive Rome 1:30 - Hotel - undecided?
April 30 - Tour Rome, hotel ??
May 1 - Tour Rome, hotel??
May 2 - Train from Rome to Venice, hotel: Hilton Stucky Venice (using Hilton points so it's free)
May 3 - Tour Venice
May 4 - Train from Venice to Florence, pick up car in Florence (got a BMW 320 series or whatever for $490 w company discount), hotel: Florence or San Gimignano?
May 5-6 - San Gimignano - La Cisterna Hotel? or others?
May 7 - Drive along coast to Cinque Terre - hotel unknown, suggestions?
May 8 - Drive to Piedmont stay somewhere that is less than 1.5 hrs drive from MXP. Suggestions??
May 9 - Early AM drive to MXP, fly home at 10: 30 AM

Thoughts??

zeppole

lewisssh3,

I hope you don't mind my pointing out that every time some mentions a destination they enjoyed being in, you revise your itinerary to include it in your trip. You have a huge amount of time to get out a map, some picture books and guide books and sit down with your spouse and talk about what kind of experiences the two of you would like to have in Italy between April 30 and May 8. You must be in the city of your departure airport on the night of May 8.

Please realize that with rare exception, the most popular destinations in Italy are popular because they have changed very little in 2,000 years. That means they are not auto friendly or train friendly (with some very few exceptions, and you've expressed no interest in going there). It is not a zip to go around Rome unless you want to tour bus guided tour. It is seldom a zip to get from either the airport or the train station to a hotel in Venice (I have no idea where the Stucky is) or vice versa. It is extremely unpleasant and time consuming to drive out or into either Rome or Firenze.

You don't want to barrel to Piemonte to eat a huge rich dinner with high alcohol content wine and then get up at 4am the next morning to drive through the fog to Malpensa in time to turn in your rental car and be at security for US flights at 8:30 am.

Have fun ripping up your itinerary and re-imagining your trip.

zeppole

PS: You can't drive along the coast to le Cinque Terre. Here's why:

http://www.butterfly2005.com/Panorami/Cinqueterre1.jpg

It's a sheer drop to the sea, and the roads in the mountains above the sea go through tunnels.

bobthenavigator

Forget Piemonte. Stay 2 nites on the coast--I would prefer Portovenere or Santa Margherita--and spend the last nite at MXP--look at Hotel First on the airport grounds.

In Rome, look at Hotel San Carlo or Hotel Lancelot.

Big_Red

Zeppole - The 'Stucky' is on the Guidecca. Venice's old, huge granary was the Molina Stuckey. The way I understand it, the old historic, brick warehouse sat empty for years. Now it is a Hilton that primarily warehouses the cruise line tourists on their pre-cruise/post-cruise holdovers.