Matt,Lobo, Sherry; Help with my itinerary!
 

Okay everyone, I am trying to settle on a loose itinerary for our trip. I want it to be relaxing so not to overload the kids. Please feel free to offer any suggestions or comments;

June 19-
Arrive via Easy Jet from Paris around 14:50. Take a taxi to apartment in Chiado. Get settled in and get some groceries. Walk around area and perhaps take Tram 28 up to Castelo de St. Jorge. Walk back to apt through Alfama area. Early night in.

June 20-
Take a ferry from Cais de Sodre to Cacilhas. Then take a cab to the Cristo Rei and go to the top. Take the ferry back and perhaps go to the Musuem of Water? Again just stay around downtown.

June 21-
Take Tram 15 to Belem, Monument of the Discoveries, Jeronimos, Coach Musuem and the Pasteleria Do Belem.

June 22-
Get rental car and visit the old haunts; My old home in Parede, my school in Carnaxide, Carcavelos, Oeiras, etc.

June 23-
Drive car to Estoril, Cascais. Go to Guincho Beach (where I spent many summer days as a child),and Cabo Da Roca.

June 24
Free day for shopping, beach or anything up for suggestions.

June 25-
Turn in rental car. Perhaps do a tour to Setubal and go dolphin watching.

June 26-
Take a tour of Fatima and Obidos.

June 27-
Take the train and spend day in Sintra.

June 28-
Free day

June 29-
Last full day. Take train to Cascais?

June 30- Say good-bye!

Do I have too much free time? Please tell me what you think? We enjoy just about everything but I don't want to burn the kids out on just musuems.

I don't think you have too much free time. You just made room for spontaniety (where is spell check when you need it.)

I don't want to minimize Fatima, but there really isn't a lot to see if you are doing it for the religious part. We did visit and am glad, but half a day is more than enough. So that and Obidos is just about right.

You are taking the children. I think it is wise that you are pacing yourself for them. They may love the beach so much that you can factor in another day.

I think they will really enjoy the ferry rides. And they should like the Tram rides and the Santa Justa elevator.

You have planned a lot of outdoor activities and that is much better for them than being stuck indoors all day.

Sherry, Thanks for the vote of confindence in my itinerary. I don't want to burn out the kids but yet still want to take advantage the sights. Any other suggestions are welcome!

Since I am just planning my trip and have never been there I don't really know anything but...

You mentioned Fatima and Obidos. Since you will be there with the kids I wonder about the caves in Serra de Maire. I think that area sounds very interesting. Dinosaur footprints, caves, etc. That sounds like a break from the beach but we are not really beach people so just a thought.

I will post a report in mid June.

Thanks to you Barb. I have considered that and will research it a big more. Are you going there?

Thinking about it. We do like that sort of thing but it depends on the timing of everything we want to see in that area.

We will be staying in Nazare at the beginning of our journey on the way south to Lisbon and then staying at Bucaco on our way back north so hopefully we can somehow see everything in one direction or the other! But I am just not sure how long things will take. We tend to spend more time at sights than the tour books recommend.

But I will certainly write a report as soon as I can after our return home June 12.
Barb

Barb, I will be waiting. I leave on the 13th. I will check in to see how your trip went.

namaka, it's nothing I can suggest to improve your itinerary. It's the kind of itinerary I's do for myself.
If you want to try the caves, google under "caves of mira d'aire" and "caves of santo antonio". Both are spectacular, but IMHO, mira d'aire caves have a lot of man made effects, like colourful illumination and artificial lakes, while the second is closer to what nature offered.
June 24 sounds good for LDC meeting. Are there other Fodorites in town, overlapping your stay?

Hi Lobo. In your opinion though, which caves would the children find more interesting? Remember that I will be taking them to many, many musuems on this trip that includes Paris and England as well.

I do not know of any other fodorites that are overlapping my stay. I believe it is Sarasara that will be checking into my apt the day I leave but I know of no others. I will get with my family about Sunday the 24th for an LDC. I must warn you that my children are very picky and may not be very receptive to the traditional food. I will be sure to get back to you and Matt about this.I will post my reply on the "Things" thread.

Thanks again for all your help!

Caves of Mira D'Aire. However, explain to your children that, when man step those caves for the 1st time, they were not green, red and blue as today.
One idea: call the caves in advance, and ask if there is any guide able to do the tour in English. If you need phone numbers, or if you want me to call in your behalf, please let me know. I'm sure the same applies to Matt.

Namaka, thanks for the intinerary including the tram numbers. I have been so busy looking for hotels that I haven't gotten to planning the details yet and this really helps me. How old are your kids? Mine are 8,11 and 15 and they also get burned out on museums. I am sorry that we won't overlap in our stay. We will be spending a week at the beach in the algarve with some friends before we work our way back up to Lisbon. I also had considered the caves but I am not sure because we have been through a couple in the US and I'm not sure that it would be much different. But it may be a good diversion after making my kids suffer through(in their opinion) the religous stuff in Fatima. Lobo, thanks for the info on them.

Namaka, I forgot to ask, do you have any info maybe a web site on the dolphin watching. I think my kids would love that and since we don't live by any oceans we don't have much opportunity to do that sort of thing. Thanks

hi - i'm tagging onto this email chain because i know that matt and lobo are lisbon locals and i'm hoping i can ask a quick question (although this may seem strange). btw, i love your comradarie and have dutifully written down many of your suggestions - thx so much!

so! my husband and i have two small children and don't get to travel much anymore. we are travlling to portugal next week (22 - 28) and it is a BIG deal to us. we are going to lisbon (and sintra, caiscais, etc) and when i look at the weather reports it is solid rain. not overcast, not scattered showers, just rain rain rain. now, we are not beach people and we do not need sunshine or even warm weather, but we are walkers (best way to get to know a city!) and love to sit at outside cafes and people watch. is may the rainy season in portugal? i don't want to seem to crazy, but i am actually considering changing our plans to go somehwhere else because i don't know when we'll get a chance to get away again - it could be years! a full week of rain seems rather dismal. are you also seeing similar weather forecasts locally?

Sarasara. Try this for the dolphins.

www.vertigemazul.com/Ingles.htm

travelling_joy: Don't take seriously any weather forecast for more than 72-hours in the future. It's an 'outlook!' Computer models forecast a 'chain' of Low Pressure systems folowing a storm track across the Bay of Biscay to near Bordeaux in France with rain in northern Portugal and Galicia (NW Spain) ending about 80-150km north from Lisbon. Nazare may be out, maybe even Cascais & Estoril) but Sintra and Lisbon should be OK.

TTT. For Sarasara and the dolphins.

nedsireland - you are so right. and today the forecast looks much better. i have been monitoring the weather in the area once per week just to get a sense of what to pack but when i saw a week straight of rain i was so disappointed. i don't mind rainy days, but 6 days of it on holiday would not be fun, particularly when my husband and i get so few chances to travel (5 year old and 3 year old at home). but today's outlook is much different!

Namaka,

Sorry I've never posted before: whilst in Sintra if you can fit it in do the Apple Beach Tram http://www.cm-sintra.pt/Artigo.aspx?ID=3202

The kids should like this.

And whilst in Belem if you have time take the ferry across the river to Trafaria. It is a longer crossing than to Cacilhas, costs 70 cents each way pp, and stops half way at Porto Brandao. It offers stunning views to the bridge and Belem area of Lisbon.

The train trip to Cascais is very scenic, lots of photo opps and I'm sure the kids will be impressed with Cabo da Roca being the most Westerly point in mainland europe. But beware the restaurant/coffee shop really sucks which is sad given it's location.

Matt

Namaka. The gift shop there is kind of tacky too.

It was really windy when we were there, so be prepared.

Thanks to everyone for your continued help with my trip. This being my "dream trip", and being quite the journey from Paris to Lisbon to England, planning is imperative. Since I am doing pretty much all of it, I have to say that I never could have done it without your help, so again "Thanks!"

Lobo, I will start looking up info about the caves this weekend.Don't be surprised if I take you up on your offer to make a call or otherwise.

Sarasara, our children are 8 and 12;pretty close to yours. I will look into the caves and let you know what I think.As soon as I get some information about the dolphins, I'll let you know. I have emailed Lisbon Walks (referral from Matt) about the dolphin tour as well as the Obidos/Fatima tour 3 times without a reply. Since I still have time, I will try some more and get back to you. Oh and I also looked at the site that Sherry provided but it didn't have any prices. I may email them as well.

Matt- thanks for that email about the apple tram; looks like that is something we will definitely be interested in. In regards to the ferry that you mentioned; does it also take you all the way across so that we can catch a bus or taxi to the Cristo Rei?

Matt, do you think we should combine Cabo Da Roca with our Sintra day or with one of our days in Cascais/Estoril? I also noted that the resturant and gift shops are not worth visiting.

Sherry, thank you for always being willing to answer any and all of my questions. Even though I thought I remembered that Lisbons weather was comparable to Sacramento, California's, looking back I remember always having chapped lips. Sooooo, your advice about the wind is also noted.

Any other advice or suggestions?

We always took our kids on vacation when they were younger.
I really believe that if you are planning to take your children, it really isn't fair to them not to plan activities that they will enjoy.
And it seems as if you are making a great effort. Better watch out, you may never be able to go to Europe without them even when they are 35 and 38 as mine are!

ditto to all the above thanks!

I do have a question about going to Cabo da Roca. We will be driving there from Sintra on our way to Lisbon if that makes sense. But how is the drive - very curvy, steep drop offs, scary??? Sometimes to me the destination is not worth the trip!

Only a week to our departure for Porto and 2 weeks to Lisbon.

Sherry, it's kind of funny because most people seem really suprised that we are taking our kids. I couldn't imagine going without them. Part of the exictement of the trip (to me anyway), is to be able to show them things I saw when I was their age. I want them to experience different cultures and to see history that goes well beyond anything they have seen in the states. I am hoping this will broaden their horizons and open up a whole new world for them. I know they already love to travel but before this, it was Florida, Hawaii and pretty much Disneyland. They are finally at an age where I think they are ready for this experience and we get to do it as a family!!!!

I have a conference in Lisbon June 14-18. June 13-18 we will do some half day tours to Sintra, in Lisbon etc. I want to take some kind of transport to the beaches to the south of Lisbon ( Cararica?) where the train does a series of stop offs at the beaches ...i.e. a day trip with public transport. Advice here? We are staying at the Tivoli Lisboa, June 13-19, and we plan on doing a lot of Lisbon wandering around and exploring, then renting a car to go north for three days. We will stay at a coastal pousadas near Aveira, tour Conimbriga etc, drive on to Oporto, stay at the Pestana two nights, take the long train/boat Duoro cruise, back to Oporto and then drive to Lisbon, stay at the Tivoli Lisboa again and up early to the airport on June 23.

I hope this trip will initiate us to Portugal and we can go again in off seasons. That is the way we like to travel. An initial trip to a place followed by more leisurely and "locale" enjoying trips later.

Any off-hand advice, comments on accommodations etc are most appreciated.

Don't listen to Sher about Fatima; it is an absolute must. The town is so kitschy and bad taste that it like watching a car accident--you can't take your eyes off of it, darling. Visit some of the shops to buy a glow-in-the-dark Blessed Virgin coatrack. Or how about a sequined Infant of Prague stamp dispenser?

Don't forget to take lots of photos of the devoted crawling towards the enormous statue of Mary on their hands and knees.

Bring some Band-aids, sweetie.

Thanks SMNOVELLA for the different perspective of Fatima.

Sherry

Polly, is that you sweetie?

SShhhhhhh.

Mirror, mirror
On the wall
I am the thinnest
One of all!

Hi there ScienceNut - I've just cut and pasted your question to the big Lisbon thread

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34785948

Where there are some very knowlegable (and not so) Portugal loving people. Oh, and me of course...

Matt

Thanks Matt!

I have two lovely and erudite colleagues who spent five or so years in Portugal. One, a British citizen who also speaks Polish, chose Braga and the other chose the Algarve, from whence she could travel; on down the Mediterranean coast as the spirit moved her! Both say they will return some day.

My wife was completely impressed with all the help you provide anyone who asks.

What is the Lisbon Dining Club? How adventurous can a couple, seasoned travellers but new to Portugal, be when exploring the older parts of Lisbon?

I am dying to go to the flea market on Saturday morning as I really enjoy getting out and away from the "madding crowd" of bus tours. The only reason we will take several half-day tours, e.g. Sintra is because of time constraints and I have to attend to business at intervals.

Anyway, we are excited. My feeling is that Portugal will be a place that I will long to return to, especially the north, at least in my fantasies, from whence my better half always returns me to the mundane and decidely suburban !

I will assiduously seek out those hidden places under arches that you have so well described and the simple things like ferry rides and trams always appeal to me.

I will try to find the "big thread" devoted to Lisbon.

Muito obrigado.

What is the Lisbon Dining Club? It's a non-governamental and non-profit organization composed by Matt_from_england, Lobo_Mau, our best halves, and all who happen to be in town and wish to share some food, some wine, and some relaxed moments with us.
We've heard too many times about tourist traps, including regular meals costing more than 100 euros. Based on this perception we've decided to indulge ourselves with excellent food, in places not listed by Rick Steves, and paying less than 20 euros/person.
In LDC we have a fair share of responsibilities, I do field work (scouting) and Matt writes excellent reports, including photographs. Matt decided to put on line those reports to give some hints to other fodorites who want, not necessarily to joint a LDC meeting, but to have a reference of alternative places to eat, suggestions of specialities to ask and an ideia of how much it would cost.
So far, we went to Trindade, Casa dos Passarinhos and Adega das Gravatas. The complete reports are available on this site ("Things to do in and around Lisbon" and "Things to do in and around Lisbon part 2") . The last of these diners had the presence of 2 fodorite friends from California.
Next LDC is scheduled for next Saturday.

I couldn't have said it better myself Lobo...