Making a left turn in France
 

In the US at an intersection, I never cross path with an oncoming vehicle making a left turn at the same time. But when I was checking the route on google, I came across this intersection, https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...,89.08,,0,1.39 .
Here the cars making left turn on both directions are way past each other. It this something unique because of the orientation of two roads crossing at a skewed angle? Do they do this even when the roads cross at a right angle?

I do not see anything exceptional. The crossroad has a divider, which means that cars will automatically going around the center of the intersection.

It's nothing unusual. You turn at the intersection, not before, as some American drivers are want to do at home.

It's just the way the roads are lined up as the road closest to us has a divider down the middle... nothing else.

>>In the US at an intersection, I never cross path with an oncoming vehicle making a left turn at the same time.<<

I'm confused - I'm an American and see nothing unusual here. Maybe I don't understand what you are asking.

I don't understand either. This looks pretty typical to me except I never turn my wheel ahead of making the turn. I keep the car straight and turn the wheel left when traffic is clear.

Interesting.
So US drivers always see two oncoming cars pass each other before making left turns?

So this scene in LA where the silver mini van waits to make a left turn WITHOUT passing the car from the other side waiting to make a left turn is not typical in the US? Other in the US has not seen this except for Robert2533?

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=enll...,283.4,,0,4.44

So, for those who can see the difference in the way people wait to make a left turn in Provence vs. LA, in France, do I always go past the oncoming vehicle before making a left turn like the picture from the Provence or are there times I need to wait to make a left turn without passing an oncoming vehicle also trying to make a left turn as seen in the photo from LA?

And here is how the California driver handbook shows how to make left turns -- the yellow and the red car do not cross paths. http://apps.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/turns.htm#turnexamples
While they don't specifically say if this is a simultaneous occurrence, I am assuming they mean each direction at different times as well as at the same time.

Don't obsess about making a left turn. Just make the turn as soon as it's safe. Why worry about if the car is in front of you or behind you as long as you have enough time to turn safely.

You can't generalize about what US drivers do.

this intersection in France is not "lined up" the way some grid intersections are. it's just the way the streets lay, IMO

Cars in France turn left behind each other rather than in front of each other like in the U.S. If you try to turn in front of the cars, you are setting yourself up for an accident.

(To make it clearer, it's like two dogs sniffing each other's rear end -- that's what the cars do.)

kerouac,
Thanks for confirming the difference. It looks like in France, one goes through an intersection as if there is always a roundabout in the middle. Is this also true in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc?

There are not roundabouts in the middle of every intersection in France.

In most, if not all countries in Europe you turn left as Kerouac describes, unless road markings indicate otherwise.

Worry more about traffic from the right, than how to turn left.

I think I'm not understanding as the first link looks like a road I ocassionaly use here in the US but has traffic lights. It's just how the roads are lined up. If the left was being made further down the road it might be more normal to you. It's also not the same layout as the one from the CA driver handbook.

And you would really be confused driving in the UK or Ireland.

As you've obviously never driven in France or elsewhere in Europe, you'll be wise to learn that you keep to the right except to pass when driving on four lane (or wider) highways, unlike at home where everyone seems to want to drive in the inside lane for some reason.

I would go with what Kerouac and Hetismji2 mention. It looks like they are both locally licensed drivers.
However, while checking, I came across this one: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=620889
What puzzles me is Mops's posting at 08-18-2011, 07:12 PM, "BTW turning before each other was only made the default (absent signage to the contrary) here in Western Germany in 1992 (one of the very few cases of West Germany adopting what previously was East German legislation) ...Turning left before each other is sometimes referred to as an American left turn BTW."
Is "American left turn" really the default in Germany but not in France?

I'm not a locally licensed driver, but I've spent 40+ years driving in France and 20+ years owning a house there, and this particular issue has never once crossed my mind - why is it crossing yours?

I have probably made a few hundred thousand left turns in France without ever fretting about it or having any issue with it. You come to an intersection, you put on your turn signal (something loads of nitwits in the USA don't bother with), you wait until the coast is clear, and you turn. If there's another driver coming toward you wanting to make a left turn also, you turn, he turns...it's all over.

I'm guessing you're going to have way bigger issues being in Europe if this is a big concern for you.

StCirq,
the main point of the question on "If there's another driver coming toward you wanting to make a left turn also, you turn, he turns...it's all over. " was, do you turn ahead of him the "The American turn" or behind him, the way described by Kerouac and Hetismij2. I don't think you answered the question.

I have never said this was the biggest question, but nevertheless I found this different.

It's simple, it depends on the intersection. The are some places where you cannot make a left hand turn from the roadway. You have to follow the signs, exit to the right and loop around.

It would seem to me that the "California way" in an above post would enable many more cars to turn left at a time than the "approved French way".

In other words, if 30 cars wanted to turn left from an eastbound road, and none wanted to go straight, while 30 cars wanted to turn left from the same road, westbound, and none wanted to go straight, all 60 cars could make their left turn in 2 continuous streams using the California method.

In the French method, using the Google map intersection as an example, 2 or possibly 3 cars at a time could turn left from the eastbound lane, and 2 or possibly 3 cars at a time could turn left from the westbound lane (assuming the remaining drivers were perfectly patient and courteous) and no more. Then 2 or possibly 3 more cars would advance from each direction, and then halt, then turn. Thus there would be 10-15 halts in traffic flow using the "French method" vs 0.00 halts using the "California method".

And here I've always thought that people in the US using the "French method" simply were horrible drivers....I never even considered they might think it correct.

Very glad you brought up this point tomboy, as I was about to post a similar comment. IMO the "California" method would move traffic much more efficiently and safely than the dance French drivers in must do if multiple vehicles are trying to turn left at an intersection.

Terrible comparison, the "California way" and the French method"! My experience is that French highways flow much better than those in California, especially during rush hour.

We are only talking left turn methods here, Robert, not general traffic flow.

I will give you points, however, as I have watched the flow in the roundabout at the Arc with awe; completely amazed at the lack of the noise of crashing fenders and tinkling glass one would expect in the States in such chaotic traffic.

IME, unless otherwise indicated (sign posted) cars in Berlin used the bum sniffing method Kerouac described. We used to call it the alley-oop. Somehow, bum sniffing seems more descriptive.

Yes, you can consider each intersection to have an invisible roundabout unless otherwise indicated.

And it does take a certain amount of discipline by the drivers because when a lot of cars want to turn left, they must leave a gap in their queue so that other vehicles can get through.

Nukesafe: can you imagine getting out of your car on one of the inner Arc rings after a traffic accident? No wonder they're cautious!!

No, I can't imagine it, Tom, even in my worst nightmares. I'm afraid I would just roll up the windows, lock the doors and sob quietly until Mommy came.

I cut across the inner rings all the time -- it's the fastest way to get to the other side.

You da man, Kerouac! It is fascinating to watch that chaotic vortex of automobiles from the top of the Arc. I hold my breath, expecting to see horrible crashes --- but have never even seen a fender bender.

Is a puzzlement!

Better I think to know about Priority on the Right, a confusing thing that even though you see less and less can result in problems when a car on a side street pops out in front on your because he is coming from the right - most intersections have yield or stop signs but in Orleans where I drive a lot there are small roads that lacking any yield signs technically have the priority given to the car on the right.

There is no "California method" or French method. Intersections vary in the U.S. and in France. The determinative factor is the width of the cross street you are wanting to turn onto. If there is a large island (think divided rural highway in U.S.) you MUST use the "French method" as it is the only way to make it work.

As for the two google map versions above, nothing in those intersections that would determine when you make a left turn are even remotely similar. The picture from France shows an acute intersection with a very large distance between the point the cars enter the intersection and the point you must cross oncoming lanes. The U.S. version is a symetrical, equidistant intersection at right angles.

Its apples and oranges.

http://tinyurl.com/l8bb5vt

How would you make a "California method" turn on this type of intersection?

Y said there was no "California method" or French method, and then turn right around (hopefully not in the intersection) and say: "you MUST use the "French method" as it is the only way to make it work." Confusing? But then I see you're in St. Joe.

http://tinyurl.com/l4l2cow

It is from a secure http, so you must select "no" in the pop-up to view it.

Here's a more common U.S. intersection design that would not allow a "California method" turn, but requires a "French method".

Robert2533, you may also see quotation marks. I used those marks (not throughout, as I now see) to describe the two "methods" as were used earlier in the thread.

But I see you're from the Pacific Northwest, so maybe I should have been a little more specific?

Like the U K France is embracing the Traffic Circle concept, changing everything about making 'left turns'.

I think the bigger difference is really the age of the infrastructure. In the U.S., its a relatively new country, and the streets are subject to long-term planning which eliminates most intersections that are not right-angle, symetrical designs. Heck, roundabouts are common in Europe, but they are a relatively new concept in street design in the U.S. In my area, the state DOT has embraced them, and are installing them and have seen marked traffic fatality reductions.