Excuse my faux pas.

The French are known for their misters and mistresses.

:)

Altamira, actually I have heard compliments about Americans, that we all aren't loud and obnoxious,etc as we are stereotyped. Personally, i am pleased when we are judged on ourselves rather than our nationality. I don't fault St. Cirq or anyone else if my comments struck a nerve. I find some of the stereotype of Americans very hurtful because I am not like that , but the reality is that even I have seen behavior of fellow Americans, in Europe, that makes me cringe. Not often but it is out there. I have also seen terrible behavior in people of other nationalities. A previous poster points out that stereotypes are everywhere, my intention was just to point out how they can be wrong. I could have missed out on experiencing Paris and all it has to offer and the wonderful French people. I hope that anyone who has not gone to France for fear that they are going to be hostile to Americans reads this thread and sees that they are as silly as we were for buying into the stereotype.

It is more refined than that. I would say: <i> the French have multiple love interests </i>

We encountered many very friendly and helpful French on our trip there several years ago. I believe that how you were treated by people depends on how you treated other people no matter where are you on earth. That's the kind of concept that I have been teaching my kids: if you don't want to be treated or talked to that way, don't do it to the others.

First of all I am NY'er and anybody who thinks we are rude can go to h--l. (insert smiley face)

We have encountered both the openness and rudeness of the French. But it seems since the Olympics in ALbertville in 1992 and there was a concerted effort to treat guest kinder, it took.

Our very first trip in 1972, we were riding in a crowded train from Luxembourg and a woman looked at my wife and myself and said in her haughtiest French, &quot;This must be there first time in France.&quot; I wanted to lie and say deuxieme but I don't speak enough French to have a conversation after that. But the same trip, an older man started to speak to us in English while we were admiring the wrought iron on the doors of Notre Dame and took us for some coffee. He remembered WWII and liked to thank Ameircans, even if we obviously had nothing to do with it.

The next trip in the early eighties was one ruddeness after another. No matter how much we tried with our broken Frenc, we were treated as pariah.

The last time in 1999, we were tried cordially. I am going in a few weeks again and expect the cordial treatment.

The interesting thing is that despite all the &quot;stories&quot; about the French being rude, I don't think I've ever read one of those stories on Fodor's.

My own experiences show that the French aren't much different than anyone else -- some good, some bad, but mostly OK. They do seem a bit formal, by US standards, and some people may interpret that as rudeness.

Then again, maybe it's me. I lived in Germany for a year and found most Germans to be friendly and cordial.

I was just in Paris for 3 days, never got treated rudely...and my French is pathetic.

kerouac wrote: &quot;I would say: the French have multiple love interests&quot;

Yes. Food, dogs, sailing, wine...

Hi St. Cirq,

&gt;I always feel like I'm reading posts from 30 years ago when I read these things. &lt;

Yup. However, give the posters a little slack. It is not their fault that they were misinformed.
................................
Hi L
&gt;Where does this idea come from that French people are all &quot;rude&quot; or &quot;hate Americans&quot;?&lt;

If you had visited Paris from 1965-1985 you would have found that to have been a very prevalent attitude.

There really has been a change in French attitudes toward tourists in the last 15 years, and not just in Paris.

((I))

&lt;&lt;when you read something from a tourist that the Americans are not aggressive and trigger-happy, that you guys are not bombing random countries every day before breakfast, and that your towns are not full of violent gangs pouncing on every unsuspecting tourist to rob and murder him/her... what would you feel?&gt;&gt;

I'd be pleased that the tourist has seen past the image presented in too many movies and TV shows ... no to mentin the news.

The extremes tend to be what are noticed and recalled - including extreme positives. At any rate, it's less effective to worry about others' behavior than to work on our own. ;)

<i>There really has been a change in French attitudes toward tourists in the last 15 years, and not just in Paris.</i>

I wouldn't bother with the &quot;toward tourists&quot; in this sentence. There has been a change in French attitudes since the late sixties, period. The French are far less formal than they used to be, particularly with each other. Tourists are not really a big part of most people's lives, but the tourists benefit from the relaxed attitude as well.

And perhaps both parties have a little more <i>savoir vivre</i> than they used to.

I think Kerouac is right, but it is also true of most developed countries. Maybe the United States was ahead of the rest of us, but since the seventies we in Britain have seen the decline of the jobsworth*, and a more customer-friendly approach generally. Some of that is due to actual training, but it is probably more because of general changed in attitude. The spirit of '68?

&quot;Can I park my car here?&quot;. &quot;It's more than my job's worth to let you do that&quot;.

Actually, ira, I was lucky enough to live in Paris for a year (1975-76) during the period you note. I found the Parisians to be pretty similar to those we find today: helpful overall but returning rudeness with rudeness. I think it's a matter of the big-city attitude, not a Parisian one.

s

Although once or twice I have experienced the brusqueness of the very busy, I have never been treated with rudeness in Paris. Does that say something about me?

Whenever anyone asks me whether I found the French rude, I always reply that no single person in my travel has been as rude as the vast majority of O'Hare employees.

I take exception to the comment about New Yorkers being ruder. That's a matter of opinion to your own experience. On the whole, they are both extremely large cities with too many people mingling in a confined space. As a NYer I've seen much kindness, indifference and meanness.

I've Paris to be just the same, with the exception of people randomly striking strangers. People don't do that in NY unless there was some sort of (perceived) slight.

All people move around be they harmless, dangerous, pleasant, angry, cruel, generous. It's a matter of chance which you'll be and which you'll encounter, and how that mix is going to shake out.

I've never found the Parisien's to be rude and my very basic French consists of admitting (in French)that I do not speak French and could he/she speak English, please? This feeble attempt is always warmly received (or at least tolerated). Maybe I do not perceive conciseness or directness or abruptness as rude considering I'm a native New Yorker. I do not feel it's rude to be direct. Hey, as my DH says whenever someone askes him if the French dislike Americans, &quot;I'm from NY, my own countrymen don't like me&quot;.
In 2000, we hosted an exchange student from a small village in Normandy. Sylvain attended school along with students from Sainte Mare Eglise and the surronding small villages. When I told him that many Americans felt that the French disliked us - well, he was shocked. His reply, 'no-not in Normandie. In Normandie we love the American people.&quot;

moral of the story...

<i>Nobody</i> likes to be stereotyped.

We travel to find the truth out for ourselves.

Don't decide where to go or not go based on a few people's anecdotes - or at the very least consider the source.

Even visiting a place where there <i>are</i> rude people can be interesting and exciting, no?

Well, not that I've ever visited anyplace where a majority of people were rude. Not yet. Guess I'll keep traveling until that happens.

It's true, some places the people really embrace you and it is wonderful. Some places the people are more reserved, but vive la difference!

I love the French too. Always have. And I love their country.

Oh, I'm going there next Tuesday!!! Cant' wait. I will kiss all of them - big, wet Fodor's kisses.

gruezi

&lt;&lt;Although once or twice I have experienced the brusqueness of the very busy, I have never been treated with rudeness in Paris. Does that say something about me?&gt;&gt;

I think I'm like you, Padraig. As a NYer, I appreciate it if working people get to the point and walking people get moving. So it doesn't much bother me when I run into &quot;brusqueness&quot; - I'm not looking for &quot;friendliness&quot; at every corner (and there's plenty of dangerously false friendliness out there, too). When I come upon the real thing, it stands out, as it should.

What non-Ny'ers may not realize is there is a world of unspoken communications. There are 17 million people in the metroplitan area and it would take a long time to say hello to each one.

If we did not have ways to commincate there would many dead people on the street and we all now know NYC is the safest large city in Ameirca,

Here are the Rules of the Sidewalk

For NY’ers and Tourists

Walk to the right, especially if you have a sign “Wide Load” on your butt
Do not stop short.
Do not do pirouettes in the middle of the street when lost.
Do not walk five across the street as if you are playing Ringo leevio or Red Rover, Red Rover let Fred Come Over.
Drink your Starbucks at Starbucks. All you latte lackeys do not hold you overpriced coffee in front of you like a cocktail.
Would you drive on the left, stop in the middle of the highway, or take every family car and block every lane?

Just NY’ers
Do not run down the street between the walkers
Do not ride your bike down the street. I know bikers think they are elevated live forms but pedestrians may disagree.
Sunday fathers-do not use your child’s stroller as a battering ram. If you are mad that you are divorced or stuck with the kid, take it on yourself not us.
Dog walkers-try not to have the entire 20 foot lead extend across the sidewalk. Someone is going to step on Chihuahua.

Tourists
Look at the map either at the curb or next to a building not on a corner, the middle of the street, by garbage cans already blocking the street, or in front of a subway stop.
If you must window shop do it by the windows and not from the middle of the sidewalk with binoculars.
Jay-walking is a NYC sport. If you are going to wait for a light, get out of the way of those who want to break the law.
If you are going to look up assign a designated seeing eye tourist so others can pass.

Cell-ibites

SHUT UP!!!. Now we know publicly how petty and inane you are privately.
Do not dial the phone as you walk. Pull your annoying butt over to a building.
Do not pace the street, while talking as if the street us your living room.
Watch where you are going. You are in the phone, not us.

Thank you.