Los Angeles / Vienna / Amsterdam / Denmark
 

Hello everyone,

I'm writing to ask for help in planning a fairly complicated trip from Los Angeles to Europe to visit friends. Here is some background about the trip:

* Travel dates: June 26 - July 5. Unfortunately we don't have much flexibility with our dates. We may be able to shift the trip 1-2 days earlier or later, but it must happen that week.
* Target cities: Vienna, Amsterdam, and Stouby (Denmark). Stouby is the town where our friends live. We've visited them before and have used Billund Airport (BLL) - which is closer to Stouby - or Kastrup in Copenhagen (CPH).
* Travel itinerary: The order in which we visit Vienna and Amsterdam is interchangeable, but Stouby should be at the end and we need to be there July 3 - 5. That leaves 6 days to visit Vienna and Amsterdam.
* Travel method: We are open to air or train travel within Europe.
* Activities: We have not visited Vienna or Amsterdam before. We plan to read travel guides and discussion boards to prepare, but any suggestions will be most appreciated.

I am looking for help primarily with finding the least expensive route between Los Angeles and Europe, within our target cities, and then back to Los Angeles. I suspect it might be cheaper to travel to a major city like London, Paris, or Rome, and then use rail or low-cost airlines like RyanAir to reach Vienna and Amsterdam.

I would also appreciate any other tips in terms of recommended hotels, places to visit, activities, discounts, visa issues, etc.

Many thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

Regards

IMO - since you are trying to get to 3 very wide spread places in a short time and in a specific time window -- you don't have the luxury to worry too much about the cheapest transport. You just don't have time to faff around w/ extra intra-Europe travel.

I'd fly to A'dam, then fly to Vienna, and finally fly to Denmark.

Do open jaw into A'dam and out of Copenhagen. (or do open jaw in to Vienna and out of Copenhagen and do your itinerary Vienna > Amsterdam > Copenhagen)

It will be expensive no matter which you choose though.

You cannot fly directly from Amsterdam to Billund, you have to go through Copenhagen or Frankfurt. Either way it will take the good part of a day to do it.
I stand corrected, you can fly direct with Air france but it will cost you €589 pp. You can fly SAS via Copenhagen for € 143 provided you book it early enough.
I expect from Vienna you would also have to fly via Copenhagen or Frankfurt.
You have not figured jet-lag into your scheme and you will lose so much time in transferring from city to city, even flying. Please consider dropping one of the cities, which will make for a more relaxed trip and give your chosen city the time it deserves.

I see at least four non-stop flights (KLM) from Amsterdam to Billund on July 3rd. Duration is just over an hour.

The problems I see with your target cities:

You can't fly non-stop LAX to Vienna.

You can fly non-stop LAX to Amsterdam (UA, KLM) and non-stop between Amsterdam and Vienna, but you'd have to connect somewhere in order to get from Vienna to Billund.

There is only one non-stop flight a day from Amsterdam to LAX and none from Copenhagen to LAX, so your trip home might involve three flights.

That's a lot of time in airports over nine days.

Personally, I don't think Vienna fits well into this trip.

A Multi-City ticket for the entire trip, LAX-AMS (6/25 arr. 6/26), AMS-VIE (6/29), VIE-BLL (7/2), BLL-LAX (7/5) costs $2890.-

A Multi-City ticket for just the transatlantic legs LAX-AMS (6/25 arr. 6/26) and BLL-LAX (7/5) costs $1341 with Delta.

You say “That leaves 6 days to visit Vienna and Amsterdam”. That is not so if you count on taking trains. Two days in each.

By train it takes an entire day to travel from Amsterdam to Wien (11.18hrs or more), and ditto from Wien to Vejle near Stouby (14:19 hrs or more).

So once in Europe you have no time for trains, not with this unrealistic schedule.

You could save some sightseeing time and a night in a hotel and take the night train from Amsterdam to Wien (18:34 - 22:34 Ams.-Frankfurt/M, 23:05 - 09:04 Frf/M - Wien) with sleeper or couchettes. That gets you back that third day in AMS.

Flying:

AMS-VIE (6/29) via SkyEurope/My Air can be as little as 69 Euros, leaves 20:20 (ar. 22:05) so you do have most of that day.

VIE-CPH (7/2) will take all day no matter what you do - fly with Air Lingus and Norwegian for $98.31 via Gatwick, of for $208 with BA via Heathrow, then you have to get to BLL or to Vejle...

If you wish for another day in Wien, get from AMS to VIE a day earlier with the late flight or with the overnight train, and count the arrival day as a full day in AMS.

Then you have
~ some of 6/26, all of 6/27, and some of 6/28 in AMS,
~ most or all of 6/29 and 6/30 and 7/1 in Wien, and
~ 7/2 is a travel day, leaving
~ 7/3 and 7/4 as your full days in Stouby.
~ Fly home on 7/5.

The obvious question: Does it have to be AMS and VIE or can it be just one?

Hi everyone,

Many thanks for such detailed responses. So far this has been very helpful. It's becoming clear that using trains is not the best alternative given our itinerary, and that we might be attempting to do too much. Questions:

* At least how many days would you recommend adding to our itinerary?
* If we cannot increase the number of days, any preferences between Vienna or Amsterdam?

Thanks again for your input.

Regards

Before we can answer, you need to tell us what you expect from these two cities.

What is it that makes you choose these two in the first place?

Some people take a two-hour canal tour in Amsterdam and move on, others stay for ten days and come back for more the next year.

Ditto with Vienna, except for the canals...

So - what do you know about these two cities that makes you want to go there, and what do you expect from these two cities?

Hi pavoman -

You've only got 8 days (excluding travel days to and back), and you're coming from the west coast.

I would not attempt all three cities. Remember, you'll be super jet-lagged (I live in socal now and even flying back to the northeast with that 3-hour difference gives me a bit of a lag).

If I were you, I'd skip Vienna since it's out of the way. I know that it sounds like a fab place (it is), but your time is of the essence. Trains are out of the question. You won't have enough time to have fun because you'll be on the train for too long out of your 8 short days. Also remember that traveling with people takes longer than traveling solo (e.g., takes longer for the entire group to get ready in the morning, or buy tickets, or get food, etc.).

I'd recommend flying LAX (possible connection on the east coast) to AMS, spend a couple of days in A'dam, then take a flight to CPH. Return flight will likely not be non-stop, as noted by the others here.

Arrive at LAX early; 2+ hours in adv.)...take into account the traffic on the 405/110/105. Lines will be long at security and baggage handling might be a bit chaotic. Just my two cents.

Thanks for the additional feedback, everyone. All of it very helpful. To respond to the recent posters, I suppose I should have included details about us and our interests. Here goes:

* The first part of our trip it will just be just my wife and I. We won't join our friends until we get to Denmark.
* We're both in our early 30s and, speaking in general terms, we enjoy the following activities when we travel, in no particular order:

(1) Going to the usual tourist spots, but not overdoing it. For example, when we went to Paris we visited the Louvre, but didn't spend all day there. No disrespect to art buffs, but it's just not our thing to spend hours inside a museum. That said, we quite enjoyed the experience and it was an important checkmark on the "places to visit" list.
(2) Public parks. That same trip to Paris we spent a wonderful time one afternoon in a park called Buttes Chaumont. We found a bench under the shade and just talked and watched people, and it's one of our favorite memories from the trip.
(3) Street markets. It's always fun if we're walking in a new city and turn the corner to find a busy street market. Same goes for any small café, pub or restaurant where we can sit down, have a drink, talk and watch the locals.
(4) Good restaurants. That doesn't mean expensive. We just enjoy sampling the local cuisine.
(5) Nightlife. I wouldn't call us club-goers, but we do enjoy a late night with good drinks, music and fun.

In short, we typically travel with a list of places to visit and things to do, but we rarely follow a rigid schedule. It's more fun to us to have a general idea of what we want to do each particular day, and then "discover" things along the way, even if it takes us off track. And in the evenings, we like to "let our hair down" a little bit.

Now, why Vienna and Amsterdam?

* Vienna interests us mainly because of its history in terms of classical music. I'm a classical music fan and Vienna has always appealed to me for this reason. And my wife imagines that she'll see all these beautiful buildings, charming little shops and restaurants, and breathtaking scenery. That's what appeals to her.
* Amsterdam just sounds like a fun and crazy place, at least from what friends have told us. A very vibrant nightlife, where you can walk along the canals going from bar to bar just having a good time. And yes, we know about the Red Light District and, while it’s not what we’re looking for, we’re not turned off by it either. One huge appeal for me is Ajax football club. I’m a big soccer fan and, although the European season will be over before our trip, just being in the same city where Johan Cruyff played is exciting.

I hope that helps with your recommendations and, once again. I greatly appreciate all your insight.

Regards

Well, like I've already said, you have 8 days of travel. I don't recommend going to all three cities.

You won't have enough time, and even if you do, you'd have to fly from city to city and that will take up even more time of of your schedule.

You'll spend the first 3 days getting over jet lag anyway, so don't expect to be able to spend a full day sightseeing.


Europe will always be there when you return. Don't try to do it all -- if you do, your memories of Europe will be the insides of trains, cars, and airplanes.

Okay, thanks for elaborating.

In Amsterdam, since you like parks with character, go to the Vondelpark, get a bike and pedal to your heart's content, then picnic or nap on the grass (your jetlag will demand a nap...) it's a great place to hang and unwind. If somebody nearby takes all their clothes off to enjoy the summer sun, don't freak out, it's legal, it's Amsterdam (could be Munich for that matter), you know that you're not in Kansas anymore...

It is near museum row, also the concert hall Concertgebouw is right there, so you're in the right area. You might even want to stay around there, we did and liked it a lot. A bit different from the nearby canals area, broader streets ("real" streets...), but only a tramstop or two from the Leidseplein and the inner canals in the concentric horseshoe formation.

Locate the Concertgebouw and Vondelpark on a map, then look for a hotel along there, you can take tram nr. 2 all the way from the train station Amsterdam Centraal as you come in on the short train ride from the airport.

I don't know these personally (I stay with private), but they are in the right place:
www.hotel-bellington.com
www.hoteltoro.nl

Not too far is Leidseplein, there is a Haagendaaz with outdoor seating and great people-watching, highly recommended. Nearby is an area full of streets lined with restaurants of all kinds - any local guide pamphlet you'll pick up will mention that. Explore!

Enjoy Indonesian food, it's everywhere because of the colonial history of Holland, of course. But beware of the Rijstafel, it really is (in Indonesia) a festive multi-course (12, 20, or ???) celebratory menu, but tourists keep hearing about it and ask for it, so if they want you to order it, skip it; it is either not the real thing anyway, or it will be way too much food and you'll be sorry... Better to put together your own little two- or three-course menu...

There is an American comedy club nearby, www.boomchicago.nl - one time when I was there, they referred me to a guy with a small boat who took us on a fascinating canal tour - if he's still doing that, I can highy recommend it! Go ask at the club's ticket window that's open during the day. They'll either know or they won't.

Lots more good stuff about Amsterdam - make sure you have a compass with you, the canals circle around and it's easy to lose track of east/west/north/south as you follow one or the other canal.

In Vienna make sure you attend a concert at the Musikverein, book early ( www.musikverein.at ), it is an astounding hall of course, famous for its acoustics despite its shoebox shape. The concert season will be over, so you may not have much choice.

We once attended a concert with an orchestra pounding its way through a medley of obvious classics - all excerpts, they played in "Mozart" costumes while tourists used flash to take pictures, it was pretty awful, like something in bad taste à la Disney, but the hall is the hall and there was nothing else on while we were there... Still worth it.

Then look up where the Wiener Sängerknaben (boys' choir) are singing, sometimes it's just a church, other times a big hall. www.wsk.at or www.boychoirs.org/vienna/index.html

Stay in/near the Ring and the Hofburg and the Stephansdom, that's where the old architecture is. Explore the many types of coffee, how they are served, and what they are called - it's a science.

Go to the Prater, up on the ferris wheel - before your trip, rent The Third Man (Der Dritte Mann) - a movie classic with the famous scene on that ferris wheel...

Since you're into classical music, make a day trip to Esterhazy Castle in Eisenstadt where Haydn was in the count's employ - www.schloss-esterhazy.at

Not enough time for either city, let alone for both, so pick and choose and make plans to come back.

Enjoy.

If you go to Vienna, consider staying at the Best Western Tigra (main hotel, not annex). Aside from being a very nice place with a superb buffet breakfast, the building is where Leopold and a young Wolfgang lived when Wolfgang made his Vienna debut. The hall where it happened is around the corner. Wolfgang returned and lived in that building for awhile as an adult. As a fellow classical music buff, I found the provenance of the building to be reason enough to stay there and a special thrill.

In the evening, you may want to take the tram out to the Grinzing district and visit a Heuriger. We liked the Heuriger Hirsch, where the food and wine was good and not expensive and the ambiance most pleasant, enhanced by a strolling violinist of some talent.

Vienna has a very fine instrument museum as well.

Although it is not the stadium where Cruyff played you can do a tour of the ArenA which is where Ajax now plays. De Meer (the old stadium) has been demolished, but the Olympisch Stadion, where they played their big European matches, is still standing and you can visit it I believe.