Looking for Paris Rental Apt.

Dec 13th, 2017, 01:40 PM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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RDJ Consider, there are many tens of thousands of these short term rentals. Airbnb alone has about 65,000.

This has been going on for a number of years. The city has been collecting a tax for a few years on these rentals.

Seems like legal/illegal may get straightened out.

But don't let anyone scare you.

The amount of people who have had their rental canncelled before arrival, don't even show up on the Rictor scale.

Oh, they have more city inspectors--WOW.

The amount of city inspectors going to an apartment after your arrival, perhaps shows up at .0001 on the Rictor scale.

In adddition, they don't place you out on the street.

At least this thread is not as bad like many in the past where the same people attempt to give renters a 'guilt trip.'

Enjoy your vacation.
iris1745 is offline  
Dec 13th, 2017, 02:01 PM
  #22  
 
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For me, it wouldn't be a matter of getting "caught," it's a matter of doing what is right. I expect most people haven't thought about the impact on the locals of these vacations rentals. If the new laws makes people pause and think, that is a good outcome.

My city is considering outlawing short-term rentals. Housing demand is very high here, and housing prices have gone way up. Lots of people ere being priced out of the city.
Kathie is offline  
Dec 13th, 2017, 02:40 PM
  #23  
 
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Ground floor apts are exempt? First time I have heard that.
yestravel is offline  
Dec 13th, 2017, 02:46 PM
  #24  
 
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Disappointing response iris - so it's ok to flout laws if lots of others do it or don't get caught !!!
northie is offline  
Dec 13th, 2017, 02:48 PM
  #25  
 
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To be honest, I hadn't really investigated the ownership issues with the Chez Robert site as they didn't have any two bedroom units. What struck me was that it was the only site I had seen that did have the registration numbers. Two agencies I have used in the past are still advertising, but with no registration numbers, so I am not prepared to use them again. Will look at hotels instead.
Ultimately, I am with Kathie. I would rather do the right thing, and if that means I stay in a hotel and not an apartment, so be it.
Kelpie67 is offline  
Dec 13th, 2017, 03:35 PM
  #26  
 
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Seem like the renters are paying the city tax. The owners are flaunting the laws that hopefully will be resolved.

I know you are perfect nothie, I wish I was. lol
iris1745 is offline  
Dec 13th, 2017, 06:53 PM
  #27  
 
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iris -- you continually tell people to pooh pooh the Paris apartment regulations -- that it is no biggie and we are being 'alarmists'

Several Fodorites who live in Paris have confirmed on multiple threads that the landscape has radically changed. So go on telling people not to worry . . . but it isn't like the good old days when we could rent flats anywhere in the city. You may not like it (I don't like it much myself) but this is what it is.
janisj is offline  
Dec 13th, 2017, 10:46 PM
  #28  
 
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The conditions are for "rez-de-chaussee" apartments are thus:
The co-propriete must vote to convert the ground floor apartment.
The gardienne might have been replaced with an enterprise which takes out the garbage, for example.
Then, this is legal, but it must have the 13 digit-registration number.

In the case of the Australians, the registration number cannot be "faked", because there is only space enough for the on-line 13-digit number, which is tied to the property owners' financial information.

The City of Paris has a program for excess apartment rental fees:
the average 1 bedroom apartment is worth 850 EU/per month, at about 30 metres square.
A 1 bedroom apartment far exceeds this, if you rent by the week - at about 1,500 EU.
fuzzbucket is offline  
Dec 14th, 2017, 12:19 AM
  #29  
 
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Doesn't the ground floor apartment still have to be the owner's primary residence? Or is that not the case?
1994 is offline  
Dec 14th, 2017, 08:32 AM
  #30  
 
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Yes - I'm afraid that Sarastro is wrong about that.

The property owner must have the 13-digit registration number prominently displayed on any website he might have, and must live at least 275 days in his apartment.
It is linked to his financial information and reviewed by the City.

There is talk of cutting down the 120-day vacation period to 90-days, so if you see the calendar mostly full up, I'd wouldn't rent it.
fuzzbucket is offline  
Dec 14th, 2017, 08:37 AM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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1994 - I wouldn't "assume" anything until you get the registration number.
The property owner will get a serious fine, but nothing will happen to you.

yestravel - there are restrictions on voting with the board members of the co-proriete. If they say "NO", it's no - even if it sits empty as a trash bin.
fuzzbucket is offline  
Dec 14th, 2017, 12:52 PM
  #32  
 
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Thanks, fuzzbucket.

If a calendar is shown as not available or full that really doesnt give you information on if it is being rented or not. Owners regularly block out time that the apt is not being rented for whatever reason. There is no way to know if it's rented or the owner is living there. I would not be guided by that for determing legality. Seems like only the registration # is the only way to judge.
yestravel is offline  
Dec 14th, 2017, 05:14 PM
  #33  
 
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I keep seeing that the 13-digit number can't be faked because it is linked to official tax/financial records. What would stop me from typing 1836749264355? It has 13 digits, and no, I have no apartment to rent. If an ad has this number (anyone is free to use it, by the way), and the ad doesn't show up in France, who would prove it was fake?
AJPeabody is offline  
Dec 14th, 2017, 11:34 PM
  #34  
 
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There is a direct link to the property owner's financial information, as it relates to his tax revenue, his property tax and a whole host of other things relating to his financial information.


It can't be faked, because the City monitors the financial information.
fuzzbucket is offline  
Dec 15th, 2017, 12:52 AM
  #35  
 
Join Date: May 2012
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The city may monitor it, but the consumer/customer has no access to the owner's tax return.
1994 is offline  
Dec 15th, 2017, 03:23 AM
  #36  
 
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FB: That doesn't actually answer my question. I will restate it: How can a consumer outside of France know if an on-line advertisement with any particular 13-digit number verify that the number is not made up, expired, or otherwise invalid? How will the official powers of the Parisian government detect and discipline 13-digit shenanigans in ads not visible in France? Thank you for your help.
AJPeabody is offline  
Dec 15th, 2017, 05:01 AM
  #37  
 
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If you take the Chez Robert example and assume that the apartments are owned by foreigners who do not reside in France, revenues are collected via a website outside of France, the only representative of this agency in Paris is someone with a prepaid mobile phone and who is virtually untraceable, the registration numbers are fabricated and traceable to no one or even if the owners actually apply for registration numbers they are never used as there is never any traceable revenue associated with rental activity, we have a situation based upon fraud, misrepresentation and tax evasion.

However, what has drawn the attention of the French government is not a single, small time operation. It is about 50,000 of them who currently list unregistered apartments on Airbnb, and more on other sites, who are effectively bypassing laws on reporting revenues, exceeding the 120 day annual rental limit, offering properties which are not someone´s full time residence, and renting properties that legally must be returned to the long term rental market or sold to full time residents.

The relevant question at this point is how far will the government go to force on line platforms to follow the law and list only registered apartments.
Sarastro is online now  
Dec 15th, 2017, 05:37 AM
  #38  
 
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Suffice it to say - in a nutshell - that nobody lives in their apartments. They all are foreigners with something to hide.
That's why they do not register. They are money-laundering.
fuzzbucket is offline  
Dec 15th, 2017, 05:39 AM
  #39  
 
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The on-line form will suffice. The tax attorneys check these things for accuracy.
No faking it, at all.
fuzzbucket is offline  
Dec 15th, 2017, 05:39 AM
  #40  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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The on-line form will suffice. The tax attorneys check these things for accuracy.
No faking it, at all.

But if you want to take a chance without a bed to sleep in...
fuzzbucket is offline  

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