steve_Australia

Hello again fellow fodorites. Firstly, I need to once again thank all of you for the help you gave my wife and I on our just completed 6 week trip to Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. As always your help was accurate and invaluable in making our visit enjoyable and memorable.

Now, for the next trip - these questions are to help my daughter on her upcoming 4-week trip in December this year. We obviously need to start saving again. Ha.

Question ONE:
My daughter (23) and her boyfriend (25) are flying into London on Christmas eve and need a night's stay before catching a train to Stirling Scotland the next day to spend Christmas with BF relatives. Following their stay in Scotland they will return to London for 3 nights before getting a train to Amsterdam.

With this plan, I thought it would be a good idea to have hotel accommodation near Kings Cross/St Pancras so they could get travel nationally and internationally easily, and also the Piccadilly line connects from Heathrow directly to the St Pancras area.

However, I have heard that the area around the stations is not all that safe. Can anyone shed some light on this please? If the area would be fine for the two of them, could someone recommend a clean hotel for around 90 GBP?

Question TWO:
Due to limited time (4 weeks) and a couple of lengthy distances between destinations, they will need to get flights rather than trains for two of itineraries.

1) Travelling from PARIS to GARMISCH-PARTENKIRCHEN. I have made the assumption that it would be best to fly between Paris and Munich (or Innsbruck) and then catch a train to GP? Whether this plan is supported or rejected, could someone please shed some light on the best way to organised the Flight component from Paris, and also the expected cost and duration etc?

2) Travelling from GARMISCH-PARTENKIRCHEN to VENICE. Again, using trains only would take too long. So would the best plan be to catch a train back to Munich and then fly to Venice? Again, could we get some information on which flight to get? Departure times, cost, duration etc.

Thank you in advance. I look forward to hearing from you guys.

Regards,

Steve

Kate

Firstly, trains do not operate on Christmas Day or Boxing Day and stop early on Christmas Eve, so the first part is out. Instead, when they arrive, they should get a direct internal flight to Edinburgh and arrange additional transportation onwards to Stirling - perhaps the relatives could collect them?

As for the St Pancras area, this comes down to budget. If money is not object, then there is the fabulous, recently reopened St Pancras Renaissance, right on top of the train station. It's a victorian architectural marvel, up there with the Houses of Parliament.

If budget is a concern, then there's a Premier Inn, decent budget chain.

The Kings Cross/St Pancras area did indeed used to be a bit sketchy, but it has been cleared up by builders and police and the area is now fine, if rather traffic clogged.

steve_Australia

Hi Kate - thanks for the prompt response. See, this is why I love Fodors! I obviously had no idea about the train schedules.

Do you know what sort of flight schedules are available from Heathrow to Edinburgh on a Christmas Eve morning? They arrive early - around 6am - but be aware that they would have left Australia some 21 hours earlier and would be pretty wrecked so would appreciate an "easy" connection if possible.

flanneruk

"I have heard that the area around the stations is not all that safe. "

This was ALWAYS an absurd myth, mainly put about by suburbanites, and believed by the terminally gullible. The "evidence" was that there were, till the beginning of this century, lots of hookers patrolling and the kind of drug dealing you'd expect in any normal city.

Why that equated to "unsafe" was never explained: hookers and drug dealers aren't notoriously prone to conduct their trades in areas where they're especially likely to be robbed or beaten up, and the greater attention their presence created from the police deterred truly dangerous crims.

They've now been shooed off, lest they upset the delicate sensibilities of arriving Parisians. The area is every bit as safe as it's ever been (my female staff used to work there till well after midnight and Mrs F & I happily walked through it at night for the quarter of a century we lived in the area). But now sanitised as well.

Kate

>>Do you know what sort of flight schedules are available from Heathrow to Edinburgh on a Christmas Eve morning?<<

Pretty regular - it's a commuter route. Here's a sample of Virgin's schedules:
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...ssingStatus.do

Other airlines are available.

I would book early for best prices and availability. As you can imagine, Christmas Eve the airports are swamped.

nytraveler

The fact that an area has hookers and drug deals defines it as unsafe to most people (who are assuming unpleasant and tacky is the same as unsafe). To those who live in suburbs or small towns - this is the epitome of unsafe. They don't understand depressed residential areas where petty thefts and muggings can be rife - it's just beyond their experience.

(And I must admit I'm not about to stay in an area frequent by drug dealers and hookers - when there are much more pleasant places to stay.)

BigRuss

<< Why that equated to "unsafe" was never explained: hookers and drug dealers aren't notoriously prone to conduct their trades in areas where they're especially likely to be robbed or beaten up, and the greater attention their presence created from the police deterred truly dangerous crims.>>

That is one of the stupidest comments I've seen on this board.

Man_in_seat_61

You can travel from Paris to Garmisch by train from as little as €39 - www.bahn.de/en

Booking opens 92 days before departure, though dates after the timetable change around 10 Dec won't open till mid-Oct.

But this would be a relaxing alternative to all the stress of flying, and one ticket would get you from central Paris to Garmisch.

dgassa

The Thistle Hotel is next to Euston Station about 3/4 mile from St Pancras. We haven't stayed there yet but it does get good reviews.

Here's a link

http://tinyurl.com/l8gkkvs

bxb52

I was in London in May. Walked around the St Pancras area, definitely felt it was safe, lots going on - just not as many restaurants to chose from as I would have liked. Stayed at the Pullman London St Pancras, the hotel was excellent. Big very modern rooms, great beds, walk in showers with rainheads, great breakfast buffet. The staff was really really friendly and helpful. And 5 minute walk to either Euston Station or Kings Cross.

KayF

Hello Steve from a fellow Australian. We stayed at the Premier Inn, next door to Kings Cross Station, once when we had an early Eurostar to catch. It is fine, on the budget side for London, clean and newish. Lighting in the room was very dim at night but that's a seemingly usual thing for hotels which drives me mad. There are lots of places to get something to eat at St Pancras which is next door to Kings Cross. We didn't find the area unsafe in any way but weren't out at 3am either.

If your daughter is flying into Heathrow she will only have the 'traditional' airlines to choose from to fly on to Edinburgh. If flying into Gatwick she could use someone like Easyjet whose initial airfare will be cheap but have more add-on costs than an airline like British Airways. Also the budget airlines have a lower luggage allowance so be aware of that - fees for excess baggage can be high.

Kay

emily71

Having stayed in a flat very near KX, the area is fairly safe as most London neighborhoods with a mix of posh flats and council estates. As a single woman, I've never had a problem and love the ease of transport and amenities. I don't know your daughter's budget, but we stayed a night at the Kings Cross Premier Inn a few years ago and I can recommend it for a night. Though I would caution that the hotel price is not exactly budget. I do know there are some cheaper, small hotels options nearby but have not stayed in them.

baglady

I stayed at the Mentone Hotel last Sept and loved it. About 10-15 min walk to the station and a couple of blocks from Russell Square (Picadilly Line). Lots of good restaurants, pubs and shopping mall close by.

brizzieLizzie

Steve,

There are Virgib Atlantic flights from Heathrow to Edinburgh at 9.10 and 11.20 ( currently $100 before cc and admin fee on edreams)

Re Paris to GP and GP to Venice, If time is short , perhaps consider the CNL night train ( couchette or sleeper) . Only one change in Munich on both trips. See Man- in- Seat61 dbahn link.

steve_Australia

Hello all - thank you very much for all your suggestions and help. I have now arranged the flight to Edinburgh and booked the London hotel for the 3 nights following the Scotland visit.

I now only need to organise the European content.

Thank you BrizzieLizzie, I will look into the CNL night trains for sure.

And thank you once again, Mark, you have helped me out a number of times over the past few years. I just need to be sure my daughter can handle an 8-hour plus train journey.

Regards,

Steve

steve_Australia

Hi again.

Just checking the www.bahn.de/en link, I was unable to find any schedule with only 1 change in Munich. Most had a minimum of two (Koln, Munich) and all took at least 8.5 hours.

Has anyone used aircraft for the two trips I proposed?