Looking for Advice on Itinerary--Help!!
 

My husband and I are both 25 and are going to Europe for the first time. I've read a number of travel books, and we have decided that we want to see as much as is reasonable. My question is what is reasonable!!?? I am fearful that if we try to cram too much into our 4 weeks we won't get a feel for any of the countries we travel to. We fly into London and out of Rome. We would definitely appreciate any help from more experienced travellers!!! Thanks in advance, <BR>Nicki

I think that what a lot of seasoned travelers advise against is moving, moving, moving over long dustances to try to "see" too many "great capitals" of Europe - - ignoring all the wonderful stuff in between. <BR> <BR>You've already decided a lot by defining your start and end points (and the length of time in between). And by having four weeks, you are almost sure to absorb a lot of "somewhere", as long as you don't try to "log" a thousand miles a week criss-crossing the continent. <BR> <BR>Given your start and end points, I suggest that you should: <BR> <BR>1. Spend a 4-8 days in England. Your own interests will determine if it is mostly in London or more outside, but give yourself at least two days of each. <BR> <BR>2. Fly to Brussels, and spend a 4-8 days inside a 250 mile radius there. That gives you access to some of France, all of Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg, and/or some of Germany. Rent a car for 3-7 days, and soak multiple cultures (which you can find even inside one country) or a lot of one culture. <BR> <BR>3. Fly from Brussels to Italy (Milan, for example) and apportion the biggest part of your 4 weeks to the many flavors of Italy. With 10-15 days, you could start without a car (for example, head east to Venice), then have a car to explore your way south, and finally do without it (the car) for however many days you want to allocate to Rome. <BR> <BR>I do not believe that a ten day stay (or longer) in Italy will "absorb" less just because you move (in reasonably straight lines) from point A to B to C, as opposed to staying in one (or two) place(s) the whole time. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex <BR>

You can easily spend the 8 days Rex mentioned in London and surrounding areas--we drove from Canterbury to south west area to Stonehenge through London and back to Canterbury in one day without feeling hurried. Everything is so close that day trips are nice. However, London lodging can be expensive and you might wish to stay out of the city and go in on trains. While Paris is not my favorite city, if this is your first trip, I would go there for another week, because you can take nice day trips. Switzerland (Interlaken, Lucerne, etc.), Monaco is close and you can then take the train to Florence. You can go from Switzerland to Munich and other Bavarian areas, Innsbruk, and then south to Venice, Florence, Rome.

This is manageable: <BR> <BR>Day 1. London <BR>Day 2. Paris <BR>Day 3. Lyon <BR>Day 4. Munich (with side trip to Dachau and evening at the Hofrbrauhaus) <BR>Day 5. Fussen <BR>Day 6. Innsbruck <BR>Day 7. Vienna (Night train to Venice) <BR>Day 8. Venice <BR>Day 9. Florence <BR>Day 10. Rome <BR>Day 11. Pompei <BR>Day 12. Milan <BR>Day 13. Bologna <BR>Day 14. Bern <BR>Day 15. Zurich <BR>Day 16. Interlaken (night train to Dinkelsbuhl) <BR>Day 17. Romantic Road Adventure <BR>Day. 18. Rothenburg <BR>Day 19. Frankfurt <BR>Day 20. Brussels <BR>Day 21. Amsterdam (night train to Berlin) <BR>Day 22. Berlin <BR>Day 23. Prague <BR>Day 24. Krakow <BR>Day 25. Sofia <BR>Day 26. Athens <BR>Day 27. Sicily <BR>Day 28. Vesuvius <BR>Day 29. Rome <BR>Day 30. Home <BR>

(to the above LOL) <BR> <BR>The first thing to do is decide what is important to you... are you sun and sand/beachy types.. forests, are you into clubbing and urban areas? Historical sights? Has one period of history fascinated you more then others??? Check out some European films see what excites you. Have you and your boyfriend start compiling lists then set your priorities. <BR>My husband and I like to see a lot when we travel I have found that you should always plan at least two nights in one local 3-4 if there are more sights you want to see. Usually the first day you arrive you are pretty beat and may have time for a meal and a drink or two. <BR>Go to www.raileurope.com and figure out what the travel distances are between the various cities you want to see. I have found that on trips where you cover a lot of ground it's best to work in a circular or Ushaped route so you don't have to double back and cover the same territory. <BR>If we had a month, knowing what WE like, our itinerary would be something like this (We are married and started travelling together when 25 also) <BR> <BR>Day1-3 London <BR>Day 4-10 Hire a car (less expensive for 2 people in the UK then trains) and drive around any combination of the following in the UK: Stratford, York, Scotland, Wales, London about 2 nights in each place <BR>Day 11-12 Back in London, take Chunnel to Paris <BR>Days 12-15 Paris and maybe a day trip to Fountainbleu or Versailles <BR>Days 16-22 Train to any combination of the following: Brugge, Amsterdam Prague, Munich, Vienna <BR>Day 23: Take train from Vienna to Venice Italy (I have taken this train ride... OH MY GOSH some of the most lovely scenery I have ever seen!!! <BR>23-25 Venice <BR>Days 26-27 travel to Florence by train or strait to Rome if you are crunched for time <BR>Days 27-31 Rome (or maybe the 27-28 in Florence) <BR>Now keep in mind that the above will give you only a nice overview of some fantastic places. Certain cities like Rome, Paris, London, need at least 3 nights..(of course all European cities require months to know them really well, but who the heck has that kind of time).. some cities like Florence, Munich, Amsterdam and Brugge are easy to navigate and walk through and can be visited for 2 nights... <BR>That is the way my husband and I like to travel.. we always book ahead so that we don't have to waste time trying to find a room that is affordable and centrally located. <BR>Again, this type of itinerary works for us, we usually pick a sight or two that we HAVE to see someplace and spend the bulk of our time, lingering in cafe's and strolling the streets of a town. Once you do this type of trip you may say.. wow, I really wish we could have more then 2 days in Florence... don't sweat it, you will be back, and the best part about doing it yourself is that you can sleep in and linger as long as you like! No having to get back on the bus! Have a great trip

Nicki, <BR> <BR>My husband and I are 28 and recently traveled to Europe with a group of close friends (all between 23-28 yrs) to Europe. Our trip was a 25 day trip. We decided to stay at least 3 nights in the cities we had picked. This ended up being the best thing we could've done. <BR> <BR>Although in most cases we flew from city to city and traveling only took one day, we ended up being exhausted when we arrived. We found that the first evening was spent relaxing and getting ready to find a good spot for dinner and drinks afterwards - therefore "losing" one night. And, although we had pre-planned our daily itineraries as far as sightseeing, we always found that it would have been nice to have one extra day for simply walking about and getting "lost" as many people call it. The few times we had that extra day were some of the most enjoyable. My husband and I would wander off in the surrounding neighborhoods and sometimes find a local grocery store, a hidden church, a neat hole-in-the-wall bar, or just get some laid back shopping in. <BR> <BR>Our itinerary was this: <BR>London - 4 nights <BR>Paris - 3 nights <BR>Barcelona - 4 nights <BR>Rome - 4 nights <BR>Florence - 2 nights <BR>Greek Islands - 5 nights (we rented a sailing yacht - actually very inexpensive! and made this our "mobile" hotel. <BR> <BR>As we seem to be in the same age group, I will tell you that our group unanimously agreed that Barcelona was our #1 spot for art, architecture, the culture, and nightlife. Paris and London were tied for our 2nd favorite place - London's biggest downfall being the food/wine, but great on the beer. <BR> <BR>We loved these spots so much that my husband and I are planning a 2-week trip just to Paris and Barcelona in September. Personally, I wouldn't return to London or Rome again. - Rome is a "must do" if you've never been, but personally, I'd rather return to Florence. Since we went on our own and planned our own trip, I found that Rome, and Italy in general, was one of the most difficult places to navigate around in in terms of public transportation, and obtaining any sort of information. <BR> <BR>Sorry for the long response. But, if you are interested in any more information as far as our itinerary, etc. email me at [email protected] <BR>

Wow, a month in Europe. That would be great. Have you seen Rick Steeve's two and twenty-two book. It's a very flexible, very detailed itinerary for a 22 day trip through Europe. I think Thyra is right about lengths of stay: there are cities that call for two or three days and cities that call for four or five days. Steeves lays some of this out for you. My opinion. <BR>1 day: Rothenburg, Fussen, Frankfurt (if that is your initial destination). <BR>two to three days: Venice, Innsbruck, Viena, Munich, Sofia, Athens, Amsterdam <BR>three to four days: Berlin, Florence (if you like museums), Krakow. <BR>four to five days: Rome, Paris, London.

Lucky you! I'm afraid I don't have specific itineraries to suggest; a whole 4 weeks and the whole of Europe is much too daunting for me. Take a look at Rick Steves' books; IMHO, he has great advice about routes & what's worth seeing (less worthwhile are the lodging & dining suggestions, also IMHO). Definitely follow his advice on taking a vacation from your vacation! <BR> <BR>Most importantly, as another poster mentioned, consider what YOU like to do, and plan from there. City, country, history, art, food, hiking, mountains, ocean, etc. What regions and cultures appeal to you? Try to vary the activities. Lots of art & culture in Florence, then lounging in Tuscany, for example. <BR> <BR>Also, try thinking of your trip in 1- or 2-week increments, to help you more easily plan your time. <BR> <BR>I took a 4-week trip 10 years ago (at the age of 24). I spent 2 weeks in France with my mom (5 days or so in Paris, then Brittany, the Loire, Gorge du Tarn and Provence, ending in Switzerland), then 2 weeks in Austria & Switzerland with my husband (the Salzburg music festival, then lots of hiking all over, with a break in Lago di Garda). That was before we discovered Italy... <BR> <BR>My critiques of my month-long trip: we moved around too much (my fault; I was the trip planner). I got tired of packing up my suitcase. Also, I got real tired of eating at restaurants. Vary the dining routine with picnic lunches and dinners at fast-food or takeout (European style) places (NOT McDs!). Some of the best meals I've ever had were at take-out "pizza rustica" places in Rome. We impatient Americans aren't used to 2-3 hour meals every day for 4 weeks. <BR> <BR>Have a wonderful time!

You are lucky to have so much time! I think it's great that you're starting in London. It's not my favorite city in Europe, but landing in an English-speaking city is a great way to transition into European travel. <BR> <BR>I would spend 5 nights in London (daytrip to Bath and maybe one other), 4 in Amsterdam, 7 in Paris (daytrips to Versailles and Loire Valley castles), 4 in Venice, 4 in Florence, and 6 in Rome (can do daytrips from Rome as well). That's 30 total.

Our heartfelt thanks to all of you who have responded!! With your excellent advice we have managed to narrow the focus of our trip. <BR>Our current itinerary looks something like this: <BR>3 days in London <BR>1 day in Southampton (My dad's hometown and a must-stop) <BR>4 days in Paris, with maybe one of these days being a day trip to Loire Valley <BR>3 days in Barcelona <BR>3-4 days in Switzerland (destination city yet unknown) <BR>4 days in Venice <BR>3 days in Florence <BR>1 day trip to Pisa <BR>5 days in Rome <BR>1 day trip to Pompeii <BR> <BR>If any of you have ANY type of advice on any hotels, MUST SEE sights, or anything at all, we would be most appreciative! Critiques of the itinerary are definitely welcome!! <BR>Once again thank you for your help!!!!! <BR>Nicki

Boy - - I'm really glad I offered you this advice - - <BR> <BR>&lt;&lt; as long as you don't try to "log" a thousand miles a week criss-crossing the continent &gt;&gt; <BR> <BR>(see my first reply to your intial question) <BR> <BR>How are you planning to get from Paris to Barcelona to Switzerland to Venice? <BR> <BR>I personally LOVE moving around in Europe using low-cost flights, and even I would get sick of airports with all this ping-ponging around. And if you are thinking about doing all this by train - - oh gosh! <BR> <BR>Did someone mention something about moving in "reasonably straight lines"? <BR> <BR>

And here I thought I had done a pretty good job!!!:) <BR>I did try to take your suggestion, Rex, of trying not doing too many things in a short time. We set out what we thought was most important for us to see, Italy, and have allotted two weeks there. <BR>For us, London was not really a must see, but no first trip to Europe would be complete without it (Hence the short time allotted--also we plan to make our next trip destination Ireland, Scotland, and the countryside of Britain). <BR>Paris of course is a must. <BR>Switzerland and Spain, I must admit were afterthoughts, but after reading some of the posts we received we didn't see how we could leave them out!!! <BR>I thought that by allotting at least three days in each of the cities that I had found a happy medium between the all-out-cross-the-continent-be-too-tired-to-eat tour and the-stay-in-one-country tour. <BR>As little as I know about travelling, we tried to balance between the types of posts we received... <BR>Hope this clarifies our reasoning.... <BR>As a side note, the order I placed the list in was slightly off, we were thinkin of flying from London to Barcelona, and going up to Paris by train... <BR>Nicki

Nicki - Kill Barcelona. Not because it isn't worth doing per se, but because it is ruining your schedule (and adding the expense of a flight which is better spent elsewhere.) <BR> <BR>Once you've done that, you're almost there.

Thank you gluck...we have indeed cut out Barcelona and will save Spain for another trip. We are now planning to spend the extra time in Switzerland, or maybe head to Munich. In this regard, where would you recommend travelling to first, Munich or Lucerne? We would like to thank all of you who took the time to reply to my previous posts!! <BR>Nicki <BR>

Nicki, <BR> <BR>I noticed that you had Pompeii on your Rome tour. Because Pompeii is closer to Naples than Rome, you may not be able to include it in your trip. A spectacular alternative is Ostia Antica, which is a quick train ride 20 miles from Rome. Ostia is 10,000 acres of incredibly well-preserved ruins--apartments, bars, shops, baths and beautiful mosaics. It was one of the highlights of our Roman holiday. A Yahoo search for Ostia Antica will show you pictures and help you decide if you are interested. Your trip sounds wonderful.

Whew!! I'm glad you passed on Barcelona, that was definitely a stretch. Here's my two cents to add: <BR> <BR>Your itinerary so far is a bit big-city laden unless you're driving from London to Paris via Southampton. Seems odd that you're flying into England but not staying much. I happen to love England. As for Switzerland, Lucerne gets my vote. Have also heard Interlaken is nice, though I've not been there. A day trip to the Loire Valley is kind of a waste - it's an area I loved if you enjoy seeing gorgeous countryside and the chateaus. I'd rent a car in Paris and spend three days in the Loire Valley. Since Italy is an area of focus, don't just see Venice, Florence, Rome...see some country side, such as Tuscany and Umbria or the Amalfi Coast or Ligurian Coast. The Rick Steves website and books is good advice, cause he does give recommended itineraries..but even he is a little agressive on distances in a short amout of time. Enjoy.

Nicki.. <BR> <BR>Don't give up on Barcelona too quickly -note that it was Lupe's favourite. For my money you picked the best way in and out of Barcelona, as there are two extremely good night trains, one direct from Paris to Barcelona, and the other direct from Barcelona to Geneva. <BR>I would add a day or two extra in Switzerland if it was me, at the expense of a day or two less in either Florence and/or Rome. Rome is good to see and explore once, but 5 days would leave me somewhat frazzled,and consecutive stays in Venice, Florence and Rome could you leave you sick of the sight of tourists, crowds, and queues everywhere. These are probably the three busiest cities in Europe. <BR>Your itinerary, by the way, is tailor made to extract great value out of a Eurail pass - have a good look at these, remembering that they are also valid on 90% of the lake steamers in Switzerland.

It looks like a wonderful itinerary. Perhaps one suggestion? <BR> <BR>Our current itinerary looks something like this: <BR>3 days in London <BR>1 day in Southampton (My dad's hometown and a must-stop) <BR>4 days in Paris, with maybe one of these days being a day trip to Loire Valley <BR>3-4 days in Switzerland (destination city yet unknown) <BR>4 days in Venice <BR>3 days in Florence <BR>1 day trip to Pisa <BR>5 days in Rome <BR>1 day trip to Pompeii <BR>3 days in Barcelona (fly from Naples) <BR> <BR>At www.europebyair.com, you can buy $99 flights from Naples to Barcelona. That way, you're moving in a more natural direction from Paris through Switzerland to Venice-Florence-Rome. Barcelona could be your last stop before heading home. <BR> <BR>Just a suggestion.

sorry ... before my post made it, i didn't see that you cut out Barcelona.

I have been to Europe 4 times and on one trip I spent 8 days in Italy. You will love it but here are my two cents. Pisa is nice and it's close to Florence and should not take a full day. Maybe a half a day at the most. The drive from Rome to Pompeii is 2 - 2.5 hours. After you see Pompeii, I recommend that you go to the Amalfi Coast. It is very beautiful. Try not to get your wallet lifted in Rome like I did. If you take precautions you will be fine but sometimes I learn the hard way. Have fun!