cohort36

My wife and I will be heading to Europe in a couple of weeks. We are flying in/out of London and looking to spend a few days there, as well as Scotland and Paris. We arrive about noon on Monday the 9th and leave in the afternoon of Tuesday the 17th. Our current work-in-progress itinerary is as follows.

5/9 (Mon) - Fly in, London
5/10 (Tues) - London, then catch ~midnight sleeper train for Oban
5/11 (Wed) - Arrive ~12 in Oban, see sites and the distillery, then catch the ferry to Islay and spend the night there
5/12 (Thur) - See as many sites and distilleries as we can before catching the 15:30 ferry in order to catch the bus back to Glasgow by ~21:00 for the night
5/13 (Fri) - Morning flight to Paris, arrive ~lunchtime
5/14 (Sat) - Paris (Versailles?)
5/15 (Sun) - Paris, maybe back to London (fly? train?)
5/16 (Mon) - Back to London (if not already), London
5/17 (Tue) - London, fly home

Is this realistic, or are we nuts? Any tips on finding the best plane/train prices (I think I'm just too late for that, though). I am very interested in seeing the distilleries, though my wife is not as much. Any suggestions for other things for her to do instead of multiple Islay
distilleries? There may be a friend of hers along as well, so it could be two of them. How many of the Islay distilleries is it possible to do in one day and still catch the ferry/bus? l was also hoping to take the train all the way up to Mallaig and back (instead of direct to Oban), but couldn't seem to fit that in. We've considered going to Milan for a day or two instead of Scotland if that part is too nuts. Is that doable, or just as crazy?
Any thoughts or recommendations on this trip plan would be great. This is our first trip to Europe and we want to see/do as much as possible. Thanks.

janisj

W/ such a short time total I'd skip London at the front end. You really won't see much on your arrival day because of the jetlag/exhaustion.

I'd do something like this:
5/9 (Mon) - Fly into London, connect to a flight to Glasgow
5/10 (Tues) - collect rental car early AM and drive to Kennacraig for ferry to Islay
5/11 (Wed) - Islay
5/12 (Thur) - Ferry/drive back to GLA for flight to Paris arrive late afternoon
5/13 (Fri) - Paris,
5/14 (Sat) - Paris
5/15 (Sun) - To London (train)
5/16 (Mon) - London
5/17 (Tue) - fly home

Islay is a beautiful island -- worth a visit even w/o the distilleries so you wife won't be bored.

janisj

Oh - and yes, you are more than a little nuts

cathies

Well done janisj, I was going to respond but I had a comment removed a couple of days for commenting that a post was mean so I wasn't brave enough to say that this traveller is nuts, even though he says he is! But now that you've taken the lead, I'll agree with you.

Your plan sounds much better and will mean that the OP sees more than the inside of planes and trains.

alihutch

Nuts as you will spend all your time traveling and sleeping and very little time actually seeing anything or being aware of where you are

toledo

As this is your first time in Europe I suggest you divide your time between London and Paris and leave Scotland for a future trip.

ira

ditto toledo.

Yes, you are nuts. You are spending far too much getting to and from Scotland just to drink whiskey that you can get in London.

palmettoprincess

Your schedule is tight. One thing that could disrupt your plans is the ferry schedule. Ferry times can vary with weather conditions or be cancelled altogether if the seas are rough. It is possible that you might miss the outgoing ferry or that the returning ferry might put you back too late to catch the bus. At least if you have a car you will have more options.

You have four (counting Glasgow) locations that you could spend a week in each. You will be spending a sizeable sum on transportation within Europe.

janisj

Of course to most it would make more sense to split your time between London and Paris. But my guess is those folks haven't been to Islay. Islay can be the center of a fabulous holiday all by itself. In a perfect world you'd have 3 weeks -- 1 for London, 1 for Paris, and 1 for the west coast of Scotland.

But it seems Islay is one of the main drivers for this trip -- so you <i>can</i> fit it in -- I just would try to maximize my time by not staying over twice in London.

As palmettoprincess says, you are at the mercy of the ferry schedules. However a way to avoid that is to fly from GLA to Islay on FlyBe - two flights a day each way.

sheila

I was going to say that flying to Islay would make even more sense.

If you do what you have planned- which is nuts, for the avoidance of doubt- have a car waiting for you at the ferry terminal and drop it off when you're done.

You can reach every distillery on Islay by bus, but sometimes only once a week (OK, I'm exaggerating, but you get the point?)

Now, having said that, a fine afternoon sail from Oban to Islay is sheer bliss.

There is a lot to do on Islay which isn't distilleries, but, basically, you need a car.

I have a trip planning document on the island you can have if you care to email me for it

cohort36

Thanks for all of the replies and feedback. And no need to worry about offending me, I've been called much worse than just nuts.
It sounds like we would be better off skipping Scotland on this trip and just doing London and Paris. I kind of already knew that already but didn't want to admit it to myself, so this helps. I definitely had not thought about the ferry running late or being canceled, a very real concern and impact with the tight schedule I was looking at.
We're still pretty young (30 and 28) and have done crazy-type trips before (New York, Costa Rica), but we're often exhausted and just making it through by the end. We always have a lot of fun, though, and have (almost) never regretted it looking back. But I was a bit concerned that this plan was pushing it more than we usually do.
I think we probably need to just stick to London and Paris; I may look more into the idea of dropping a London/Paris day for more time in Islay, I'll have to see.
Does anybody have any good suggestions for whisky and/or beer stuff in London? I haven't looked if there are any distilleries or breweries/brewpubs, as I had been looking in Scotland.
Thanks again, and any further ideas/tips would be equally appreciated.

sheila

no, no, no.

Skip Paris. You can go there any time!

cohort36

I can't seem to drag myself away from doing Islay. Just when I've almost convinced myself that it makes the most sense to skip Scotland and only do London and Paris, I come up with some other option or idea to try and make Scotland happen.

My latest plan is very similar to what janisj suggested, basically ~2.5 days each in London and Paris and 2 in Islay, (instead of 3 in London and Paris), plus renting a car so as to not be tied to the bus schedule. We would fly in to Glasgow one evening/night and either spend the night there or Kennacraig, then catch the ferry in the morning, returning the next evening and again staying in Kennacraig/Glasgow, before flying out the next morning. This actually works out to be cheaper than my original plan, but about $250USD more total for 2 of us than just London and Paris (considering transportation costs only). I can maybe offset some of that by finding cheaper lodging along the way, or flying with RyanAir (instead of EasyJet), though I'm not sure I want to chance that given the horror stories I've heard about them.

I'm still looking into which route makes the most sense (time and money); immediately to Glasgow/Islay-Paris-London, immediately to Paris-Glasgow/Islay-London, London-Paris-Glasgow/Islay, or London-Glasgow/Islay-Paris. Splitting London up into 2 1-day stays at the beginning/end might even be an option, depending on what works best for the other routes/locations.

I also need to check and make sure the things we want to do in each place will be open and can be done in the time we will be there. I know some of the distilleries are not open weekends/Sundays, and I'm not sure about the museums in London and Paris. Barring anything catastrophic (ie, something being completely closed while we're in town), I think we should still have enough time to give a decent treatment to each locale, though maybe not an in-depth exploration (but that would take a week or more in each anyway).

I am concerned about getting around Islay. It would cost a decent bit (~90GBP) to either take the car across the ferry or leave it and get another one on Islay. Is it realistically possible to get around to the distilleries and other sites via bus, cab, foot, and/or bike rental?

Does anybody know if there is any lodging in/around Kennacraig, or would we be better off staying in Glasgow? Anywhere in between that is good/fun?

So, does this plan sound less nuts? I'm OK with some level of crazy; I'm not looking for completely sane.

BigRuss

I like Shiela's suggestion -- forget Paris for now and stick to the UK. And it's probably better bang for your buck -- the dollar-Euro exchange is historically bad, the dollar-pound exchange at less that $1.70 per is historically not bad at all.

And if you liked Costa Rica, Scotland's wildlife scene at that time of year should be interesting, especially on the west coast.

cohort36

I'm not sure I can convince my wife to completely skip out on Paris. The fact that we are flying into/out of the UK and not, say, Italy or Germany, is part of what is telling me to go ahead and do Scotland on this trip, even if just for a bit.

Yeah, I'd seen that the dollar-Euro rate was not very nice right now.

What do you mean about the wildlife on the west coast?

sheila

For time, fly from Glasgow to Islay and hire when you get there.

Like I said you CAN get to every distillery on the island by public transport, but believe me the buses aren't frequent.

Accommodation at Kennacraig ain't cheap- captive market and all that- although you will get cheap B&Bs in Tarbert. At Kennacraig we try to stay in The West Loch Hotel. Please note you will have to book. We've also stayed in the Bainakill. That part of Scotland is littered with B&Bs in the summer and, assuming you don't pick a regatta weekend- Tarbert is a big sailing place- you should have no difficulty getting somewhere.

It's still nuts

surfmom

I know this isn't part of the question, but I'm going to throw a few things your way -

day #1 - jetlag day - There are many different theories as to how to best combat jetlag, but I'm of the "walk walk walk... outside" variety. My best day of traveling was the day I walked 18 holes of golf almost immediately after landing. I felt great! If you can, spend it outside to allow your body to adjust.

London and Paris - you are young - so do some fun tours. We've done Fat Tire Bike Tours in Paris on multiple times and they are great each time. Haven't done them in London yet, but I would imagine they would be great also. Usually other young people and a fun way to see a city.

As to your itinerary - it sounds like you really want to do Islay. And your wife really wants to do Paris. Thinking out of the box... what if you just did those two destinations ? My experience is that every time you change cities - you lose at least half a day (if not more). Don't feel like you "have" to do London just because your original flight arrives there. It is always easy to get there.

What if you split the time in half (about?) and did Scotland and Paris ?

(oh, and btw, I wouldn't do Versailles with the small amount of time in Paris... soak up "Paris" instead!)

you've come to the right place - janisj is a England (and golf!) expert as well as some of the others chiming in.

jkbritt

Look into open-jaw tickets if you want to do Paris. Fly into London, fly home from Paris. This will save you a day or two of travel. I would skip Scotland and do London and Paris. Leave Scotland for next trip. You need to drive in Scotland to really see it and you do not have enough time to do that. London and Paris can be done with buses and Tube/Metro.

sheila

no, no, no.

(see above)

historytraveler

Well, about the "need to drive in Scotland to really see it". Nonsense. Now driving is the better way to see Scotland, and I've done so many times, but I have also taken public transportation including the ferries and can easily recommend it as well. I think such comments must be made by those that simply haven't tried it.