London/Paris 1st Timer
 

I'm seeking any input on a first trip to London and Paris. We'll be there the last week of April. Arriving early on Monday in London, Chunnel to Paris Friday mid-day. Return flight to USA from Paris on Tuesday early.<BR><BR>Hotels:<BR>London - Hazlitt's near Soho square<BR>Paris - Vendome<BR><BR>Restaurants reserved:<BR>London - The Ivy, Rules<BR>Paris - Le Jules Verne<BR><BR>Major Sights:<BR>London: Westminster, St Pauls, Tower of L, Changing of Guard, Covent Garden, Kensington Palace, Madame T, London Walks tour(?), Lion King, Full Monte<BR>Paris: Louvre, d'Orsay, Latin Qtr, Sacre Couer, Versailles, Arc de T.<BR><BR>Any input of these things? Any "must do" things that I don't have listed? Any wastes of time/money listed? Thanks!<BR><BR>Drew<BR>

Oh - demographic info:<BR><BR>30 somthing male, travelling with wife (3 mos. pregnant), and parents (60 something, reasonably mobile). <BR><BR>Drew

Don't forget the Eiffel Tower!

Drew I can only comment on your itinary for Paris and I have to say I think you've got a bit much on the plate for 3 days. It is so much nicer if you can relax and really enjoy the sites you see vs. trying to see it all.<BR><BR>May I suggest skipping Versaille as it is an entire day trip and stick to the city.<BR><BR>You may also want to check out one of the many jazz clubs in Paris after dinner. I really like Bibloquet as it wasn't as smokey as some of the others.<BR><BR>You may also want to pick either the Louvre or the Orsay. I love them both but it can get over whelming. <BR><BR>Notre Dame and Ste. Chappell are musts, especially if it is sunny out. The windows of Ste Chappell are amazing. <BR><BR>A stroll through the Tuilleries or Luxembourgh gardens is also wonderful on a nice day. Perhaps picnicing with goodies purchased from Rue Cler or Rue Mouffetarde.<BR><BR>I have dined at Jules Verne and loved it! <BR><BR>Enjoy your trip!

Drew - you've got a pretty good handle on things. Both Hotels are fine and for real splurges each restaurant is a one of a kind.<BR><BR>As mentioned - drop Versailles - you just don't have enough time. You will get a lot more from Paris by just walking soaking up the atmo. devote more time to the D'Orsay than the Louvre - especially if you like Impressionists. The bldg itself is just amazing. You can't see all of the Louvre in a week let alone a visit so just pick up the guide and hit the galleries that most interest you.<BR><BR>Eiffle tower for sure - but since you are going to Jules Verne that is a given - do you already have your reservations? Tghey are pretty much booked up year round.<BR><BR>In London - Definitely skip the Changing of the Guard. It takes an investment of over 2 hours to see/hear 15 minutes of music. You need to be there just standing on the pavement (sidewalk) over an hour early just to be able to see anything. But you can just walk up to Horseguards and se the change there without any mobs any day.<BR><BR>Also skip Mme. Tussauds. it can be fun - but is too crowded, too expensive and too time consuming.<BR><BR>Be sure to fly (ride) the London Eye.

hi,<BR><BR>I have been to both london twice and paris 3 times. (i could go again tomorrow....sigh).<BR><BR>London, make sure to see the british museum...wonderful exhibits...i would trade madam tussards for it. tower of london was great but the jewels were more hype than anything. plan for plenty of time at westminster abbey....lots of history buried there.<BR>if you are in london, you should visit hampton court...the gardens will be absolutely wonderful during that time of year. 1/2 day trip.<BR><BR>paris...i agree with the other posters...save versailles for another trip when you have more time. the weekend will be very crowded. the walk from the train is quite a distance on cobbled lanes and with your wife pregnant it will be hard on her. remember this is a vacation, take your time and enjoy each place. don't rush...it's been there for years and trust me....you will go back again.<BR><BR>if you don't want the expense of taxi's buy a day card in london for each day for the metro. do not buy the british heritage pass before you go. if you decide to buy it (you may not need it unless you are planning on going to many day trips outside london (bath, stonehenge, windsor etc). if you do go the the tourist office in london and get it...its cheaper. in paris buy the paris viste for the metro, well worth the money, but wait to get it there at any of the main metros, it's definitely cheaper than online.<BR><BR>in paris, you can also buy the 1 3 or 5 day museum pass carte musee. and that is worth it too. DO NOT BUY PARIS MUSEUM PASS BEFORE YOU REACH PARIS. they have been having a record amount of strikes this year. we ended up only buying a one day pass because the rest of the time they were on strike. <BR><BR>oh, i envy you...you are going to absolutely love it.

Great advice all - I wonder if I should drop Versailles though... :-)

Drew, You've outlined many of the hilights in both cities. My suggestion is to "plan around the Mondays". For example, the Louvre or the D'Orsay -- one of them is open Monday & closed Tuesday and vice verse. You arrive in Paris on Friday afternoon, then have 3 full days (Sat/Sun/Mon). Obviously a short visit will give you a taste of the city. I'll present another opinion on the Versailles debate. My first (ok, thus far only) trip to Paris was a 3-day stay. I opted to see Versailles on one of those days. Thoroughly enjoyed it & was glad that I went. <BR><BR>Do follow the suggestion to wait until you actually get to Paris to buy a museum card. It's very easy to do so --- I bought mine on at the metro stop (Varenne) by my hotel. Or can be purchased at any of the museums that accept the card. This website will provide you more info about 'Carte Musee' (museum card) that allows you to access many of the major museums.<BR>http://www.paris.org/Musees/mmc.html<BR><BR>Or here is the site itself:<BR>http://www.intermusees.com<BR>

Remember being impressed with Versailles but it was WAY TOO CROWDED! Looking over my notes, I wrote that it was like being in a cattle car with the tour guides prodding you along! Maybe it won't be that bad in April (this was end of May), but there really is so much to see in Paris, I agree that you should save that for another visit.

Hi<BR>here's my opinion, don't know if this will match your interests or not<BR>London: As mentioned, if you can't bear to miss the Changing of the Guard, at least see it at the Horse Guards where you will be closer to it and the crowd will be much less. At Buck. Palace you mostly see the backs and heads of other tourists, and the actual changing goes on well inside the iron gates.<BR>When you go to St Paul's pick up a map at the tourist office just across the drive and it will show you noteworthy churches not far away, also in the City of London. Even if you don't want to go inside all the churches (many designed by Christopher Wren) it's a nice way to see the oldest part of London, now the financial center. If you're ambitious you can walk from the Tower to St Paul's and cover a lot of the City. <BR>Like Janis, I can't recommend Madame T's, especially on a short trip, but that's up to you. I went to the Ivy and to Rules a few weeks ago, loved them, especially the Ivy.<BR>Since you have a couple of large museums in Paris, I take it you have some interest in art. If so I highly recommend visiting at least one fine art museum in London, take your pick:<BR>National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, Courtauld Institute, Tate Britain, Tate Modern, etc. The first two are quite close to each other and are open late on Wednesday nights, if that helps.<BR><BR>Paris: In my opinion Sacre Coeur offers a nice bird's eye view, but for me the church itself is decidedly un-memorable. That's up to you.<BR>There are some small charming churches in the Latin Quarter (St Julien-le-Pauvre, St Etienne, etc) that have some remarkable interiors, and then there's the Pantheon itself, the burial place of many famous authors and other notables. Even more than these, I have to agree with the recommendation for seeing the interior of Notre Dame and for visiting nearby Ste Chapelle, especially on a bright day which will illuminate the gorgeous stained glass.<BR>Regarding Versailles, it's awesome, it's just that you haven't much time.<BR>That's your call. You probably already know that it's closed on Monday, your last day.If you go, go early on Sunday.<BR>

Given that my pregnant wife's only request in London was to hit Madame T's, I pretty much have to keep that on there. <BR><BR>The Versailles plan was to be there when they open Sunday, take the 1.5 hour tour, see the gardens and have lunch, then head back into Paris by mid-afternoon. Then we can rest and do some stuff that night.<BR><BR>Anyone know why Le Jules Verne is closed from late March through late April? We do have reservations (made in February), and I didn't know if they were renovating, redecorating, or changing it in some other way.<BR><BR>Thanks again for all the great advice!<BR><BR>D

Just a comment on the itinerary. You will probably find that your wife may feel fine most of the time, but by the evening she will be pretty tired! We went to LA and Hawaii last year from London when my wife was three months pregnant, and she tended to collapse in bed at about 7.30 or 8 in the evening - so if we wanted to do something at night we had to cut back on what we did during the day. We didn't discover this until we got on holiday, so had to change our plans as we went along! As a suggestion then, I would limit what you do in London the days you go to the Ivy, "Lion King" and "Full Monty" - you don't want her falling asleep in the middle of the show! Incidentally, the holiday was fine and we now have a 10 week old girl!<BR><BR>By the way - I'm jealous about the Ivy. How did you swing that one??!! ;-)

In London I would recommend the Bayswater area for Lodging. It's more of a business district than touristy. The hotels are modest, but most are reasonably priced and clean. I just stayed in one called the Byron; it's on Queensborough Terrace. If you book there, make sure you ask for a double or triple (The rooms are small). This hotel is modest (rooms are pretty small, bedspreads are somewhat old), but they are very courteous and their cleaning service is excellent! Why Bayswater? Well, even though this is section isn't really near any of the major sights, it has two tube stations on Queensway which is 2 blocks from Byron W2. The tubes are Queensway (Central line) and Bayswater (District and Circle lines). It is absolutely the fastest and cheapest way to travel in London. The London Underground is one of the cleanest subs I've seen. I always feel very safe when I'm there. Bayswater W2 is on the corner of Hyde Park, on the Kensington Palace end. Some other hotels in Bayswater are the Central Park and Park Lane. <BR><BR>For Paris, I would recommend the Novotel for convenience. (Novotels are very Americanized in design-large rooms well equipped with all our necessities, but are a bit pricy as are most hotels in Paris.) My two favorites in Paris are 1) Hotel Costes and 2) the Ritz-Carlton. Both are VERY pricy, but incredible places to stay. Hotel Costes is currently the trendiest place to stay and might very well lead to multiple celebrity sightings (if you're into that kind of thing), the Ritz will spoil you rotten. They give the most exhaustive customer service I've ever experienced. I haven't been to the Ritz in about 5 years so I don't know their rates, but I was at hotel Costes last October and it was about $550 a night. (That may seem like a lot, but I paid $349 for the Novotel last May and it's not even in a great location.<BR>Definitely buy the latest copies of Fodor's Paris and London guides. They will pay for themselves many times over. <BR>Enjoy!!

Drew, Just wanted to say, I think your hotel choices are great. Hazlitt's is charming- my husband and I asked to see a room last time we were in London, and the manager gave us a tour of the whole hotel!Great location in Soho. Walking distance to the theatre district and Covent garden. Have a wonderful time!

sarah - with all due respect, Drew and his family are staying in two very nice places and can afford the Ivy and Jules Verne. They would not be happy staying in Bayswater - AT ALL.

Kathy: Thanks for the confirmation on Hazlitts. I was worried - being a smaller, "quirky" sounding from the Fodors description. I even called them and asked if they thought my parents, who are older, would be comfortable there. They were very nice on the phone (as all Brits seem to be!), and assured me that we would all be very comfortable. I even requested that my parents have the one room with the traditional shower, which they indicated they could do. <BR><BR>Janis: While we can afford the hotels and restaurants we're going to, we're not "first class" travellers. This is a special trip for us, so we're sparing no expense. Now if we did this every year, that would be another story!<BR><BR>Drew

If you do want to ride the "London Eye" (I'm dieing to) you need to reserve in advance. You can do this on the British Airways website I think. We tried without booking ahead early last December (certainly off-season) on a very cold and wet day and had no luck at all! Who knew?

Drew - I wasn't saying you were "rich" just that anyone with the taste to stay/eat in places like Hazlitts and The Ivy would not be comfortable in Bayswater. I am a budget traveler - in fact I always rent flats in London because they are so much cheaper than hotels - But I would never stay in Bayswater. No charm - just a bunch of budget hotels near Paddington station.

Oh, and about the Eye. You can get tickets "on the day" if you go to the Tourist Information Center at Victoria station. They hold a block of tickets for 5PM every day. Just stop by there in the morning on your way to whatever you are visiting that day - buy the tickets and then show up at the Eye just before 5PM.

Janis,<BR>There are some very nice places in Bayswater. Some of them are very charming and old. The ones that are near Hyde Park and away from Paddington are quite lovely. Anyway, I enjoy staying at all kinds of hotels, budget to fancy-schmancy. In London I've also stayed at the Ritz and the Novotel and some other non-descript place. The Ritz was nice, but I don't think it's as great as it's chalked up to be. The Novotel was also nice, but I found the location to be dreadful (Hammersmith). I guess I'm not the world class traveler that you obviously are. (I usually fly business/coach.)

To save time at mdme tusauds you can purchase tickets in advance and that allows you to skip the line and go straight in. they line is usually a minimum 90 minutes, ask your hotel concierge to do this for you.<BR><BR>as far as versailes go on sunday as that is when they are the fountains on and the dancing water show. it may sound cheesey but the best way and easiest is to go the tour route for versailes they get you in and out no lines and no transportation hassels. it's kind of hoakey on the tour bus but it beats the walk from the train on cobblestones

Hi Drew. I took my 60-something mother to London and Paris last summer for about the same length of time as your trip. It was her first trip to Europe. We saw a lot and did nothing in-depth but it worked for her and we both enjoyed the trip since I got to see the highlights again myself. <BR><BR>By all means go to Madame Tussaud's. It was my mother's favorite. Definitely have the concierge make reservations for you and you can waltz right in the door. Don't be put off by the long line. That is the ticket purchasing line and you will already have tickets in hand. My advice is to go first thing in the morning when the crowds are a little thinner. I wouldn't bother with the Changing of the Guard. You really can't see much and it's a big waste of time. We did a Jack the Ripper London Walk and there were so many people, even split into 3 groups, that with the traffic noise unless you were right next to the tour guide it was hard to hear. But we did this in July so perhaps April would be a bit less crowded. We also saw the Lion King. Very well done and entertaining. If you are thinking of riding the London Eye I suggest that you not do it your first day in London. London is a sprawling city and you'll need to get your bearings just a bit before you can appreciate the view from the Eye.<BR><BR>I believe I also must disagree with the other posters (Madam T's being the other) about whether or not to visit Versailles. My first trip to Paris I wouldn't have dreamed of missing it. True, it will be crowded, but all the tourist sites are. And since it will be April I'm not sure how much the gardens will be in bloom so you can save a lot of time by NOT spending too much time in them. You can maybe see Versailles in half a day. My mother isn't that interested in art but I dragged her to both the Louvre and the d'Orsay. We mostly just saw the Big 3 at the Louvre since we had limited time but there was no way I was going to let her get out of Paris without at least seeing the Mona Lisa. And we spent a little more time at the D'Orsay since it's a little more manageable and then had dinner in their restaurant. <BR><BR>Just remember that standing around listening to a tour guide is actually more tiring than walking. Don't be afraid to just see the highlights. Who knows if and when you'll go back and you'll be sorry if you didn't take the time to see the crown jewels at the Tower of London. I know this statement will probably get me slammed but you can save the soaking up the atmosphere for your next trip. Enjoy!

More by being stuck in traffic than great planning, we got to Versailles about a half hour before it closed, and we went through almost by ourselves. It was awesome. I am going back to Paris with my husband and three children, and we are planning to get there about the same time. We won't be able to do a tour, but to go through it without the crowds will be worth it, I hope. The suggestion for first thing Sunday is probably a good one, too.

Drew<BR> Just walking along the Seine is simply the best! The EuroStar is great, comfortable and fast.<BR><BR>Have a great time!

Great picks! Make sure you do the behind the scene tour at Versailles, it is about $20 US and well worth it. You will see places in the palace not available in the general tour, like rooms that have not been restored since Louie and Marie were kicked out, and the theatre that is marvelous. In Paris do not forget a trip to Fauchon, the premier bakery and chocolate market on Place de la Madeleine, great flower market too!