And keep on doing it. Who on earth said anything about enjoyment?

We are just pointing out, in words of one syllable where possible, that London IS NOT UNIQUE in charging taxes on hotel rooms.

Hi HISTORYTRAVELER,

"I was in London the end of June, and it was as crowded as I've seen it in some 25 years."

So was I and it was worth every penny!!! :)

jz: you are just babbling now.

<i>Neither</i> 'hotel tax' nor VAT have anything to do with income tax. And again - there is no 'hotel tax' as such in London.

You apparently weren't outraged by the VAT you paid on petrol, or shopping, or theatre tickets, or train tickets or every thing else you paid for in London???????>

of course you have to pay the piper but it is rather unfair to a tourist to pay such an exorbitant % of tex to support European socialism (such as flanner.uk often espouses) - our sales taxes are max =usually 6-8% - some cities do have a separate hotel tax.

How come some things expensive are VAT-free if exported - what's the difference?

Why was the 21% VAT on Barcelona hotels OK with you but the 20% VAT in London is pathetic and ridiculous. Why is paying the VAT and city tax in Italy OK?

Are you anti London? Anti British?

Latedaytraveler,

Somehow, I said June when I meant July. Next year I think I'll travel late May to mid-June, or in the fall as I usually do.

Why is it unfair for tourists to pay VAT, and be able to claim some of it back, but it is OK for tourists visiting the US to pay a huge range of variable taxes, none of which are included in the price quoted, and none of which can be reclaimed?
Answer me that PalenQ.

hetismij2: PQ doesn't really believe that -- he is just a contrarian -- sits back to see which way the wind is blowing and then tosses in his conflicting 'opinion' to see what happens.

>>it is rather unfair to a tourist to pay such an exorbitant % of tex to support European socialism<<

Like public transport, free museums and the like..... When in Rome, and all that.

Answer me that PalenQ>

Well I should let janis answer that question for me so you know what I really think! But the U.S. tax seems also an onerous burden for pure tourists.

I'm not complaining about VAT being so so high - up to 25% or so in France but tourists bring in money for a country not deplete if a Patrick London seems to think - being parasites on the ever gushing public European trough.

Hang on a mo' PalenQ.

Yes, we tourists bring in money.

We also put stress on water and sewage and waste systems; pound the pavement (both inside and out of a vehicle); require from time to time police and information services; and can impede the flow of regular commuter traffic unless carefully managed.

That's us sitting on the park bench where a local might want to sit and eat his/her lunch.

So we're a mixed blessing, unless the tax we pay offsets the services we use and the wear and tear we put on infrastructure.

BTW I love London, it's my favourite city. Alas, a lot of other people love it too, which is why it is now so expensive.

I'm finding it quite hard to extract a meaning from your last, PQ (have you moved on from Dulux to Fired Earth?), but I think you're attributing opinions to me I don't have. I merely point out that taxes - the same as we pay - provide services tourists use along with the rest of us.

For the umpteenth time, we are not talking about a "hotel tax" that applies only to tourists (though that's an extra sometimes mooted), but a form of general sales tax. If I stayed in a hotel in the Lakes, or lived in the Lakes and stayed in London, I'd be paying it too.

Tourism isn't (some might be surprised to hear) a God Almighty among commercial operations.

"VAT being so so high - up to 25% or so in France"
No. Maximum 20%.

I'm always amazed tourists can get their tax back when they leave the country. When they bought that handbag did they not do it in a society that was safe for them to do so, rather than be mugged of it on the way to the airport. Hence they were consuming part of that society's services during that transaction.

So far I've only ever claimed tax back leaving Japan, please tell me does this happen everywhere?

Just be glad you're not paying the average of 55% income that the Belgians pay. And 21% VAT.
Though in Belgium this is mainly inflicted on the locals. VAT for hotels is 6%.

That should be 55% income TAX.

>>So far I've only ever claimed tax back leaving Japan, please tell me does this happen everywhere?<<

I've done so from Canada.

With VAT, I think the logic depends on the fact of exporting something: since it works by taxing added value, at each stage of production and consumption the tax is levied on the output price, but a refund is paid for tax paid on the previous stages (I <i>think</i> this is the idea) - so if it's exported, the exporter gets back the tax paid on the final stage within that tax jurisdiction. I suppose the idea was to encourage more efficient production/consumption chains, and exports.

Thanks Patrick, I can two sides of the arguement but good to know about Canada, what happens in USA?

"
Why was the 21% VAT on Barcelona hotels OK with you but the 20% VAT in London is pathetic and ridiculous. Why is paying the VAT and city tax in Italy OK?

Are you anti London? Anti British?"

No, I am not anti London/British. I am anti fxxking high tax, that's all.

No-one's asking you to do that to it....!