London Calling
 

Hello everyone. You have all been so helpful thus far in planning our family vacation for October of this year that I wonder if I can impose on you again for some guidance. I tend to underestimate how long it will take to get from point A to B. Our dilemma is of course a shortage of time. Really short in this case.
We will arrive at Gatwick on October 9 at 11:45 am. I understand the best way to get to our hotel (Citadines Trafalgar) is to take the Gatwick Express to Victoria Station and then we will probably take a taxi to the hotel. We are only in London the 9th, 10th, and 11th. We take the Eurostar to Paris on the 12th with a noon departure.


On the 11th we have a full day private tour planned with London Walks. We'll visit Westminster Abbey, West End, and the Tower of London. Then I have hopes to get a reservation at Darwin Brasserie at Sky Garden.

The 10 th is as yet unplanned, but my question is about the 9th. Is it likely that once we check into the hotel, we will have time to visit anything that day? Yes, we'll have jetlag, but it's never stopped us before.
Here are some of the things that interest us

Tate Britain
National Gallery
Cecil Court
Penhaligans
Fortnum and Mason
Wallace Collection

Drive bys of

10 Downing
Buckingham Palace
Globe Theater
I have hopes that there will be fewer crowds at that time of year, but it does seem that many museums etc. close by 6.

Thanks again for your thoughts on this.

>>Is it likely that once we check into the hotel, we will have time to visit anything that day? <<

It will be tough but you can see <i>something</i>. W/ an 11:45 arrival you can't really count on being at your hotel and checked in until maybe 3PM. The Eye would be doable for sure -- and any drive-by's. But Oct 9 is a sunday and many places will be closed by 5-ish PM - some at 6PM


The closest would be the National Gallery.

You could kill two birds w/ one stone since Penhaligans is sold at Fortnum and Mason

10 Downing . . . there is nothing to see. There is an iron gate and a couple of police standing guard -- but you cannot get anywhere near the actual bldg.

The specialist shops in Cecil Court would mostly be closed or have limited hours on Sundays I'd assume.

10 Downing Street (NEVER truncate English street names) is virtually invisible from Whitehall, and it's usually impossible even to get to the iron gates cutting the street off to peer through.

The Globe Theatre is a nothing if viewed from a vehicle-accesible road, which is a VERY long taxi ride (you can't possibly be seriously proposing driving) from anywhere else. It's slightly more visually arresting if viewed from the pedestrian- and cycle-only Thames path. A walk along this path from the bridges near Trafalgar Square (Trafalgar is close to a thousand miles away, so I assume your hotel is just illiterate) is likely to be far more interesting than looking at late twentieth century security fencing.

The Globe's really worth looking at only from the inside. Visiting hours are restricted and quirky ( http://www.shakespearesglobe.com/you.../opening-hours )

<i> I understand the best way to get to our hotel (Citadines Trafalgar) is to take the Gatwick Express to Victoria Station and then we will probably take a taxi to the hotel.</i>

Personally I would take the train to Charing Cross with a change at London Bridge (PS it's Citadines Trafalgar Square)

No, we weren't planning to drive anywhere. You misinterpret my idiom. There are some things to which access is unavailable like 10 Downing Street, Buckingham Palace, and The Globe. The theater either has no tours available during our stay or no longer has time slots available, but my daughter would very much like to at least see it from the outside. We'll have to be happy with a superficial exterior viewing. Also I live with American teenagers, so everything is truncated, but it's good to know that it's a faux pas in England.

Janisj- I was really hoping to get to the Tate Britain, but I can see that is wishful thinking. Do all Fortnum and Masons sell Penhaligan's? There seem to be several locations in London. Thanks for the information.

Bearing in mind the possibility of jetlag, a walk across Traflagar Square through the Park to the Palace would be something to blow away the cobwebs for an hour or two.

Slightly longer would be to walk in the opposite direction, down Northumberland Avenue or Villiers Street to the footbridges across to the South Bank and then along to the Globe, and beyond if you feel like it. Plenty of people-watching opportunities along there on a Sunday afternoon, especially if the weather's good.

PS: I'm not sure about changing trains at London Bridge. There's a major rebuilding project going on which has meant that services along the Brighton/Gatwick line don't run into London Bridge on some Sundays. Keep an eye on forecast works at www.nationalrail.co.uk and play it by ear once you arrive at Gatwick.

>>Personally I would take the train to Charing Cross with a change at London Bridge (PS it's Citadines Trafalgar Square)<<

I wouldn't -- IMO the cab ride from Victoria to the hotel would be fun for first timers and isn't very far. On a sunday the cab couldn't use the Mall so it most likely It would pass Big Ben/Parliament.Trafalgar Sq. Easier than changing trains at London Bridge. And then they wouldn't have to schlep w/ the bags (not far but a bit of a slog) to the hotel. BTW -- there is no need to take the Gatwick Express -- and train from LGW to Victoria would be fine. Though there is more luggage space on the Express.

>> Do all Fortnum and Masons sell Penhaligan's?<<

There is only one. By Fortnum & Mason -- most everyone would assume you mean the 'mother ship' on Piccadilly. That is the only F&M department store -- though there is a small satellite grocery store @ St Pancras.

was posting at the same time as Patrick -- w/ his added info re the works on the rail line - I'd definitely use Victoria.

" Also I live with American teenagers, so everything is truncated, but it's good to know that it's a faux pas in England. "

:-)

the issue not that it is a faux pas, but that many names use the same words, so "Downing" for example is a school, while Downing Street is a specific road. You might think we can work it out by context but if you offered up Leeds, that could be a city or a famous castle (hundreds of miles apart).

Imagine you wanted to go to Washington in the US.... or worse Birmingham.

I heard a story about an American businessman who had a meeting in Ipswich. He was told to get a train from Liverpool Street station and the journey would take about an hour.

He turned up hours late having gone via Liverpool

Oh my word.

It's PenhaligOn's not PenhaligAn's.

Churchill just twitched in his grave.

Hee hee. I see your point. We used to live in Washington State and always have to clarify whether it was DC or state. I'll try to use more precise language as it applies to addresses. Thank you bilboburgler and MissPrism for the gentle correction and use of humor rather than castigation.

Janisj- Thank you for the reassurance. I think we'd enjoy the cab ride as well and after our flight, we would really prefer not to haul bags. In addition it sounds like we'll get the bonus of a mini tour, all pluses in my opinion. I'll have to research the difference between Gatwick Express and other trains. I, perhaps incorrectly, assumed the express was well... express and would save us time. Maybe that's not the case. On a side note, can we buy Visitor Oyster Cards at LGW or should I order them in advance online. I believe they'll mail them to you?

PatrickLondon - I love those suggestions for our first evening. Any restaurant or pub recommendations? Are teens allowed in pubs in UK?

As always, thanks for the advice.

Well, I'm 0 for 3. I should just quit now.

Dont pre-order your Oysters, just get them at Victoria station. They don't sell them at Gatwick as far as I know.

The normal trains to Victoria are a fraction of the cost, and take only slightly longer. There is less space for luggage and they can get busy at peak times, but in general they are a good choice. They run on the same tracks at the Gatwick Express but make more stops.

Do you know about the 2for1s?

I didn't notice what age your teens are but generally they are allowed in pubs. If they are younger (say 13) they may only be allowed in a certain area or before a certain time like 8pm. I think the drinking age is 16 so if they are older they are definitely allowed.

Thanks, jamikins. The kids are 14 and 16 ,so that should work out great. I thought 2 for 1's were only available with round trip train tickets.
I would love to find a pub with live music and a fun atmosphere near our hotel. That's probably to much to ask in a tourist area.

They can't buy drinks until they're 18 (nor drink alcohol until they're 18, unless they're eating a meal and are accompanied by an adult, in which case 16/17 year olds may do so).

Younger than 16 is much more problematic. If it's a place that serves meals as well as selling alcohol, there may be reserved areas and times in which younger children may be there with adults, especially if it has outside space. But you'd need to ask.

Honestly, I'm not the best person to ask for pub or restaurant recommendations. There are certainly plenty along the South Bank, most offering fairly standard pub meals (not a gourmet experience, but they won't kill you). If you choose to walk through the park to Buckingham Palace, you'd either depend on the café in the park (not sure when that shuts), or leave the park to look around the St James's area towards Victoria.

>>I thought 2 for 1's were only available with round trip train tickets. <<

Don't have time to answer completely -- the shuttle picks me up in about 10 mins for my flights to London . . . :)

But others can fill in the blanks. No -- you do not need a R-T train ticket -- jus any train ticket but it has to be for the day(s) you use the 2for1's. So if you buy paper travel cards (instead of Oysters) that will serve as yoyr train tickets.

Charing Cross train station is a short walk from your hotel so you can buy them there . . .

For the globe theater, you buy tickets at the theater on the day. I don't believe you can pre-purchase.

On the 10th, they have a tour every 30 min from 9:30 to 5
http://www.shakespearesglobe.com/upl...ner_2016v6.pdf

The tours are only 30 min. My whole family really enjoyed it including the teens. We went in June and had no problem with space on the next tour so I would be surprised if it was more crowded in October.

If you cannot fit in a tour of the Globe (and I agree there is little to see from walking past, you need to go in it), then perhaps you can manage a performance? Standing tickets are only £5 each, a bargain for theatre in London, and it's a unique experience. (Opinions differ widely on standing versus sitting. I have some back problems and prefer to stand. Others would not agree. If you do get seats, definitely rent the cushions.)

I think they're doing Imogen (a modern re-telling of Shakespeare's Cymbeline) on the 11th but you can check their website.

The Founders Arms on the Southbank has a terrace with very nice views. I've only had liquid refreshment here but I'm told the food is decent. Not the sort of pub you were looking for, perhaps, but good to know about.

If you want to use the 2-4-1 deals, then yes, you can use them with a train ticket, but you can also use them with a National Rail issued paper Travelcard, which gets you access to London's public transit system (as operated by TfL, Transport for London). You buy a National Rail card at a mainline rail station (which often shares space and a name with a Tube station, hence some of the confusion that ensues). You cannot get the 2-4-1 deals with Oyster cards. Do not buy a Visitor Oyster and do not buy it in advance. If you need an Oyster, buy a regular one at any Tube station.

You'll have to do the math and see if the 2-4-1 appeals to you/makes sense for your trip/et cetera. Others here can advise better than I, on that topic.

Although you can't purchase anything while the shops are closed, you could certainly window shop/have a peek at Cecil Court anytime, and you may find it atmospheric with fewer visitors. I'd just go round when in the area.

The London Eye is also a possibility on arrival day, if it's clear. I think it runs until 8:30 pm in October, but you can check the website. The line moves quicker than you think it will.

I think the regular trains from Gatwick are not much slower, and definitely less expensive, than the Gatwick Express, but others here will know.

Hope you have a good trip!

2 for 1 offers using travelcards:


https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g...p.By.Step.html

Before you jump on the 2 for 1 offers, you need to figure if you'll actually save money. I believe for travel cards you have to buy a one day or seven daycard. Purchasing a daily travel card can be a hassle and it may end up costing you more by buying a 7 day card than utilizing special rates for families offered at many of the most popular sites. Check out the places you plan to visit and see if they accept 2 for 1 and compare savings with their family rate. I was in London with family for 2 1/2 days this past June and I opted for Oyster cards only. For the short time we were there and with our itinerary, it was easier and a bit cheaper than 2 for 1.

Thanks to all for your time and the benefit of your experience.

If you are using public transit for 5+ days it makes sense monetarily to get the 7 day pass. You will need passport photos if you get the national rail paper cards to take advantage of the 2for1s.

We are only in London 2 days, so I think the Oyster Card might be our best bet.

It looks like with the 4 of us traveling from Gatwick the Express tickets are only about £43 total some kind of group save rate. I think that sounds ok. Our last trip to New York it cost us $100 to get from Newark to Manhattan. Also I'm a little concerned about the luggage situation on the regular trains.

If you do walk down Northumberland Avenue, you could eat at the Sherlock Holmes Pub. Upstairs, there is a glassed-in room complete with Sherlock in his Victorian flat.

If you can get 4 tickets for £43 definitely do that. Regular tickets are in the £15-17 range depending on time. The non 'express' trains only make about 2-3 stops and take maybe 5-10 minutes longer.

While going inside the Globe Theatre would be wonderful, I do think it's worth seeing from the outside if that's all you have time for. And the pathway/embankment that now runs all the way from Westminster to the Tower is a wonderful place to walk and people watch and just 'feel' London. Lots of food trucks and restaurants. In October it shouldn't be too crowded. I was there end of June and it was delightful, then was back again end of July and it was so crowded I couldn't get away fast enough, it was horrible. But that was the weekend of the bike races so maybe that had something to do with it, or maybe it was just July tourist crowds but in June it was very pleasant.

Carolyn- Thanks for the tip.

Nice to hear there is a pathway that goes that whole distance. That sounds like something that might be good to do even after museums and tourist attractions close. I wonder if it is well lit and reasonably safe at night?

As for 14 year olds.. they may enter a pub with adults to eat a meal. however, they usually have to be out by 9 p.m. and of course they cannot be served alcohol. I think that some pubs will only permit adults; you can always walk in an ask before everyone enters.

if the weather is good, I would do a walk and see the Globe from the outside if you think that you will not have time for an inside look on your still unplanned day.

the national gallery is closest to your accommodations, and its free except for special exhibits. personally I prefer to the museums when I am not so jet lagged.

Fortnum and Mason's is also open to 6pm on Sundays If you look at the Penhaligon's website, click on UK and you will see the various store locations in London

Southbank is very well it and safe at night. Unless you mean after midnight! There will be people walking all evening and lots of bars and restaurants etc.

No place you are contemplating visiting will be unsafe at night.

Just the teensiest bit of common sense and you will be fine.

I'm in London right now w/ a friend who can't walk far so just to get the cob webs out/wear myself out a bit to get over the jet lag, last night after he turned in, I topped up my Oyster, took the tube to green park, then walked up Piccadilly, down haymarket, across Trafalgar Sq, a bit up the Strand/Aldwych, through Covent Garden, up Charing Cross rd/Tottenham Court Rd, and to our accommodations near the British museum - don't know for sure but maybe 4.5-5 miles total and totally safe. Tonight assuming I don't go to the theatre I plan a similar walk to include the Southbank.

Yes, I think a walk is a good way to clear the cobwebs and looks like it may be our only viable option after settling in at the hotel. I will keep all of the walks mentioned handy.

We usually make good use of common sense, so no troubles there. : ).

Janisj - if you head out to the theater, please let me know what you end up seeing and your thoughts on it. My husband mentioned trying to see a show while we're there. I'm fairly sure my family's concept of time is somewhat distorted. The list of "I want to sees" is growing rather than shrinking.

It looks like October 10th will look like this and it's not good, kind of spread out everywhere. So any advice on how best to make the day work would be lovely.
Ugly as it is, here goes the plan(?)

Tate Britain- as noted in another post, I have a thing for Pre- raphaelites and this is our only day open to go there.

Wallace Collection- My son is really excited about the armor. He doesn't get excited about museums and his other choice and mine ( Hampton Court) was nixed because we have such a short time in London.

Old Globe- for my daughter as mentioned above. Maybe see the exhibition and take the tour, time permitting.

Cecil Court- I kind of love old things, books, maps, streets and it gives us a chance to wander

Fortnum and Mason for tea(?) and browsing

PenhaligONS- Thank you BigRuss .

Show- for my poor , patient , long suffering husband. He's not usually a theater buff, so I'm not sure why he requested that. Maybe this could be added to the 11th after our tours?

You should be able to do most of that but The Wallace Collection really doesn't fit . . . And if it is armor you want there is just a TON in the Tower of London, including horse armor and Henry VIII's

So get you armor fix at the Tower.

If you go to the Tate Britain, and can break away from the Pre-Rafaelites for a few minutes, try to check this out:

http://www.tate.org.uk/visit/tate-br...s/anwar-shemza

I was completely enthralled. And there was no one, absolutely no one in those rooms with me.

Also loved seeing a play at the Old Globe, do consider seeing a performance there. Maybe your husband will be cool with that as his "show."

While your day is spread out it is doable.. look at the opening and closing times, and see what would suit your family. not everyone can plan on being at a site at the earliest opening time.

the Wallace collection has some really lovely paintings as well as the armor. they also do tea in their café


Does everyone want to do the same things? if not perhaps you and your husband can split up for a bit, and each take a child to see what they want, and then meet up later.


Depending on when your private tour ends and where it ends you may be able to add in something from your list

You can look up what shows will be on in October, and see if they really interest everyone.

I agree with Janis, I think the armour collection at the Tower of London will more than satisfy your son and would stick with that, given your short stay and long list of things to see. While Hampton Court Palace is amazing, it does need the better part of a day, but if your son would enjoy that then he'd likely also enjoy the Tower.

I agree it's always a good idea to consider splitting up. In addition to allowing you to divide and conquer, it makes for better dinner table conversation that night. Certainly you may each want to go your own way at larger museums and the Tower of London, et cetera.

I wouldn't worry about walking along the Southbank (or anywhere else in central London) at night, by myself or with your family. It's a very safe city, with the usual caveats, of course. That's a nice walk along the Southbank, by the way, lots of good views. The terrace at the Founders Arms has a nice view, as does the restaurant upstairs at the Globe (the Swan, I think, and the food was good there, ditto the bar downstairs). Ooops, I already mentioned the Founders Arms. Sorry.

Some of my favourite views and memories of London are from walking home after the theatre. I especially love the views from various bridges.

It's hard when there are more things to see than days in a trip (I think that's true no matter how long your stay in London) but wish you luck with the travel planning.