Both very dark episodes in the history of English football (and you can add it to the 1985 Bradford fire which killed more than 50 people).

Action was taken over these incidents - the Taylor report was part of that process of change. Top flight clubs now have all seater stadia, ticketing is much more closely controlled, known hooligans are now banned from both domestic and international games.

While I tend to socialise, and watch games with, articulate, intelligent , educated people, I cannot deny that large parts of the crowd are made up of the same people that would constitute "the mob" as in mob rule.
There is a huge tribal element to soccer that occasionally boils over into violence.

The English are not alone in this , but are often singled out (sometimes unfairly in my opinion, but the insular nature of England fans doesn't help)

My club. like willit's, has got a serious problem with hooliganism.

We're not proud of it.

Having said that I haven't been in a fight at football that I haven't wanted to be in since about 1989 (and that was in Liverpool).

It's pretty safe for the non-involved these days.

ps An "Armitage" is a pleasurable solitary passtime - ie a J Arthur.

I should point out that last month I was in Paris for the England-Scotland match (won in an upset by Scotland) and encountered English fans at a sidewalk cafe.

The had been drinking quite a bit, and the group spilled out onto the sidewalk. I kept wondering if there was going to be trouble.

Instead, I observed they were about the most well-behaved drunks I've seen in a long time. They didn't bother any other patrons, and when women or couples passed by on the sidewalk, the groups said nothing more than "good day."

When they found out I was an American, they kidded me that England was getting ready to kick the US's butt in basketball. (I repled, "Big deal, everyone else has.")

All in all, I have to say they were a friendly, nonthreatening bunch.

That's rugby old bean - a poofs' game.

There is talk of resurecting the Home championship next year as none of the Home Nations are going to qualify for the euro thingy.

Walk past a bar on the day of the England v Scotland game in that and you may find life somewhat different.

Hope everyone enjoys watching the game today! :) It's on at 1 p.m. EST (12n CST) today on FOX.

Actually, to confuse matters further, it was Scotland v. France in football, at almost the same time the rugby matches were going on.

A poofs' game? LOL.

j_999_9 - You were actually partly correct earlier. Unlike England fans traveling abroad, the Scots have an excellent reputation for being amicable.

I had the experience of being on a cross channel ferry with a boatload of kilt wearing Scotsmen on their way to a soccer international against Belgium, and was slightly worried about my English accent. The journey just turned into one big party - everybody welcome.

Now here's a question.

The Blouseball game at Wembley officially scored an attendance of 81,000.

Not bad (about what Derby County got against WBA there in May) - but 9,000 less than serious football games get there, as you'd expect.

Oddly though, it's an awful lot less than the 95,000 this post starts off with claims of. So, is the discrepancy down to:

A) 14,000 people paid for tickets, then decided they'd rather throw their money away than sit through such junk,
B) They have to fly in 14,000 cheer leaders, because the lardpots can't get girlfriends
C) PalQ was making it all up
D) The promoters were telling porkies

Is this the sport where we get to see the Americans play with themsleves?

I never thought I would be posting about the NFL on fodors! Oh well. My husband went to the game last night with some friends from work. He said it was fun. A pretty lame game but a cool experience. He did say he thought the organizers didn't have a great grasp on what they were trying to accomplish. They ran out of food by the end of the first quarter. My husband thought he would find his seat first and check it all out before he got food. By the time he got out to the concessions they all had cardboard signs saying "no food - just drinks." I guess they underestimated the average NFL fan's capacity to eat during a game! They also ran out of merchandise very early as well. Note to organizers: I guess NFL fans really like to eat and buy stuff! He did say that with no food but more than enough alcohol there were plenty of fights, more than at a usual NFL game. He also mentioned the extraordinary long time it took security to contain the streaker. The guy apparently had enough time to line up with the kicking team, dance around, and do some pushups before they caught hold of him. While my husband doesn't think that football (soccer) should in any way feel threatened by American football he does think this event could do well, once a year, in London. So, that's the 2 cents of someone who is married to someone who actually went to the game!

60 minutes of "play", 2 hours of committee meetings & no violence.

Well hopefully everyone who needed an excuse to see Wembley Stadium has done so we don't have to repeat this "excitement"

Old time football is what the media is saying about the fiasco in Wembley with the playing field, which apparently came apart shortly after the first snap

pictures of muddy football players

how come his world-class venue has such poor sod - a little rain of course should be expected.

An embarrasment for English technology i guess

Besides that three long articles is the NYTimes www.nytimes.com rave about the British reaction to the game - a smash success - not 95,000 as the report that i got that from, not made up, as apparently the stadium only holds some 80,000 - but the NY Times did say that 500,000 Brits had requested tickets so would have been a sell out whatever the capacity

Could this be the beginning of the death knell of English footballs (rugby and soccer)

The stadium holds 90,000 - which is how many attend it for proper sports events.

Whether 9,000 seats were empty, or they had to give the seats away to people on the North Circular Rd, is unclear

Tne 95,000 claim comes from someone called Roger Goodell, who seems to be the Blouseball commissionaire. Why Blouseball fansites believe what the bloke in the funny uniform on the door says is unclear. But he's the bloke who started the rumour.

Can't cope with the rain, can they? Poor dears.

From an AP story before the seminal match at Wembley:

"It just doesn't appeal to me" said Simon Aaronson, a 26-year-old physics teacher, "It seems like a bunch of men in crash helmets running into each other"

But Aaronson added "Everything in America eventually catches on in England - American culture infiltrates British society"

(Thus a youthful Brit seems to have a better grasp on what British society is like than some ole duff up in the Cotswolds it seems; NFL is not targeting OAPs but the vital young market and therein lies their goal)

Ronald Brown, an 83-year-old retiree from the printing business said 'I watch it now and again but it doesn't appeal to me - some of the tackling they do is bloody cruel" - duh you don't say Ronnie, who lies in the OAP demographics NFL could care less about

And that such a lousy game between the consensus worst NFL team, Miami, the Spurs of the NFL, and a mediocre NY team was what the NFL offered up mystified many. Though the two marquee but faded teams were selected originally because they were more well known abroad than most other teams

And the discussion previously here about American football not taking a hold in Britain was apparently less than genuine as it was pointed out that there are some 115 or so American football teams at various levels in English and literally thousands are involved. And games are regularly shown or bits of games throughout the U.K. on tellie and there is quite a fan base.

>>such poor sod <<

That's no way to refer to NFL players, surely? Especially such large and aggressive ones.

"Is this the sport where we get to see the Americans play with themsleves?"


ROFLMAO!! What is it with those guys?? No please don't tell me!

making jokes, silly comparision to divert attention from the huge success and most of the crowd NFL says were indeed Brits

The handwriting is on the wall now read it.

Do i want to see the demise of English soccer? No and i'm no fan of NFL but let's call a spade a spade.

Bob; Over a million people watched the Tour de France when it was held here. That doesn't mean we've become a nation of cycling fans.

The shortage in attendance at the Mary's football was down to that bloody Circle of Apathy (A national disgrace)

NYTimes qoutes:

"The NFL's pioneer globalization expeditioni went even better than the league's slick marketers could have anticipated"

game took 3 hrs 2 mins compared with approx Premier League soccer game of 1:45

Onfield pregame show included a pop band, the white-booted Dolphins cheerleaders, 4 dozen folks twirling giant Dolphins and Giants jerseys and a circling blimp

Star-Spangled banner and God Save the Queen were sung

81,176 attendance 87% of tikcets were sold to people in Britain

500,000 people registered online to buy tickets, far more than stadium capacity of 88,000

"circling blimp"

Which team was he playing for?