vmcenroe

I'll be visting London in a few weeks and I've spent a lot of time learning great stuff at this site. Three questions:

First:
I plan to take in at least one street market. I assume some are better than others and different ones are known for different wares. I'm looking for a classic London market with small antiques for the true London price, not the tourist price.

Second:
I've read that you need to get advance tickets for Saturday tea. Is that true and how do you do that? Is afternoon tea a dress up occasion? Any suggestions on the best restaurants for that?

Third:
What's the deal with Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park on Sunday. I've heard that's a must. What's the best time to be there?

vmcenroe

Just pushing this message back to the top. Would greatly appreciate feedback. Thanks.

ira

Hi VM,

Reservations for tea depend on where you are going. It is usually a dressup affair.

See http://www.gofortea.com/

Speaker's Corner is open almost all day. We were there from about 11 - 1:30 observing the indigenous population performing their rituals.

jnn1964

I enjoyed the Portabello Road market. I went on a Saturday morning - which seems to be the most popular day

Speaker's corner is ok. I've been twice on Sunday mornings, and both times the topics were mostly religion and politics. I didn't stay long. It is an interesting spectacle, though.

Have a great trip. London is my favorite city!

CarolA

There will be lots of tourists at Portobello market, but that said, its a must do. Lots of fun. With the value of the dollar, it's not like your going to find any bargins anyway!

I made reservations for Tea at the Ritz several months ago for late May. If you want one of the popular ones (Ritz, Brown's) I would book a reservation.

flanneruk

London's market traders are committed to equal rights when it comes to ripping off customers. There's no way a trader can tell the difference between a tourist and anyone else, and no reason a tourist would necessarily be more or less knowledgeable about 16th century pewter cow creamers than the rest of us.

If you know what you're buying, you'll do better than if you don't. Whether you're from Richmond, Surrey or Richmond, NSW, and whether you're a tourist or one of the million or so residents born abroad.

The best market for antiques is probably Camden Passage, N1 (nearest tube Angel,not to be confused with Camden Market, NW1, nearest tube Camden Town which is aimed at youngish people). It's not a classic street market: classic street markets operate daily, selling basic necessities (have a look at nearby Chapel St Market).

Camden Passage has outdoor stalls Wednesday and Saturday, and a wide range of antiques shops around it. Heavily patronised by people who live here: it's the first place we look when our houses get burgled.

Speakers' Corner is one of those "attractions" few of us can get. A bunch of opinionated people (many at the margins of sanity - and that's being charitable) sounding off, heckled by equally opinionated people who aren't listening. A Fodors' thread in stereo. House of Commons without the good jokes.

If you've time to spare on a Sunday morning, go to a choral service. Or, if you're interested in the history of free speech here, take a walk round Clerkenwell, which has encouraged proper dissidents for centuries.

Since it really is very dull, I'd suggest lunchtime if you absolutely believe you have to go (Nothing, BTW, is a must - anywhere).

Then stroll over to a Chinese in Queensway for a traditional London dim-sum Sunday lunch. By the time you get there, the queues should have become a lot more manageable.

vmcenroe

Okay, I'll be sure to check out Portabello Rd on Saturday.

Is it advisable then to skip speaker's corner? I'll be at Portabello Rd on Saturday and Hyde Park isn't too far from there so I feel like I would be going back to the same area twice. Anyone else been to speaker's corner?

m_kingdom2

I live in London, there are no "tourist" antique shops, if things are highly priced, the dealer is either selling quality stuff, or ripping off everyone, tourist or not.

Malletts and Partridges have the finest selection of objet d'arts and furniture in London, the prices are very high, but the quality is the best that you will find.

As for tea, if it's a smart hotel, smart casual dress will always be appreciated!

I've never been to Speaker's Corner when it is in action, and that's in the all the years I've lived in London, my entire life, if people shouting on soapboxes appeals to you, take a look - I'd imagine this could be coupled with Hyde Park, and surrounding area, rather than a special detour!

Antique markets are more in the form of organised antiques fairs, however, what do you want? Quality or some granny's attic pieces?

mclaurie

First, let me say I'm glad you were able to resolve your hotel dilemma. I so sympathized with you. We've <i>all</i> been there. I was going to give some more input but you decided on the Rembrandt in the interim. I hope you'll report back to us.

Now on your questions, Flanneruk has given you really good advice. With the current exchange rate, no prices will seem good. If you're really into antiques, I'd suggest getting a Time Out magazine or Where or one of those &amp; checking to see if there are any antique fairs going on while you're there. They're sometimes held in a hotel &amp; attract dealers from around the country.

Camden Passage is in an interesting area, Islington. While I haven't been recently, my memory is it has more larger furniture than small transportable things. But if you can, try going on a Wednesday. Then if you want to go to Portobello Road on Sat., make sure to get there <i>really</i> early. By 9:30am it's a mob scene. I've never been, but I hear Bermondsey market is what Portobello Rd. used to be.

I don't know if you have the idea that tea is only a Saturday thing, but it's not. It can be done any day &amp; you'll find it more relaxing with less hubbub if done during the week IMO. In addition to the good website Ira gave you, there are several LONG threads here with people's votes on the best tea. I'll tell you Brown's hotel usually wins out, but they may be closed now for renovation. The Ritz hotel is popular. I've been to the Savoy hotel &amp; liked it a lot. It depends on where you go as to how you have to dress. L'Orangerie in Kensington Gardens is a good option for a pretty setting &amp; not too expensive or dressy. Fortnum &amp; Masons dept store is anothter popular place. The nice hotels require more dressy clothes.

The &quot;deal&quot; with Speaker's Corner has always eluded me. I think you can give it a miss.

Tulips

1. Portobello Road will probably fit the bill. Londoners go there as well as tourists.
2. As said, depends on where you go; I believe that Browns do not take reservations for example. The Ritz has a dress code, but is very stuffy. Afternoon tea is strictly for the tourists. I lived in London for many years, and only did this when some visiting aunt or other relative insisted on it.
3. Agree with others on this; it's certainly not a 'must see'

m_kingdom2

The Ritz is super for dinner, but tea isn't something Londoner's do, I think of it as something one too tight for lunch or dinner opts for. Obviously, this isn't the case for Americans, but have dinner instead, tea's naff!

mclaurie

A good way to fit tea into your schedule (if you want the experience)is to do it on an afternoon you're going to the theater in the evening. Then have a light bite after theater.

vmcenroe

m_Kingdom2: That's amazing. Why do all the tourists want to have tea and Londoners don't do it. What's the history on this?

mclaurie: That's a great idea because we plan to see Les Miserables on Saturday. I've never seen it and believe it or not it doesn't have a great US tour going on right now. Anyway, we will be around Shaftesbury. Can you recommend a place for tea and an after theatre restaurant? I thought it would be too late to have dinner after the show. I haven't checked into showtimes at all. We will be staying in Knightsbridge near the V&amp;A so a restaurant in that area would be fine too.

janis

everyone so far has given you good info.

Some add'l comments: When mclaurie said get to Portobello Rd early he really meant EARLY. 5:30 or 6 a.m. is not too early - and rolling in after 9 a.m. is certainly too late because by 10 a.m. it is actually too crowded to walk easily or see anything.

Afternoon tea can be done any day of the week. Brown's is out because of the rennovation being done. It seems to be the conventional wisdom on Fodors that Tea at the Ritz is only for American tourists. But I take tea there about every 3rd or 4th trip to London and the majority of folks sitting sround me are always Brits. Of course there are visitors - since those staying at the Ritz get preference for seating w/o having to book ahead. But I have observed very well heeled British women, business men treating out of town clients, and british families every time I've been there. And the service has always been proper but never stuffy. If you want do tea there you must book ahead -- but you can also take tea at a hundred other places from Fortnum &amp; Mason's to small tea shops.

Speakers' corner is not worth a special trip - I much prefer doing a Sunday morning concert at the Wigmore Hall - but a nice way to get to S. Corner is to walk east along Bayswater Rd the entire length of Kens Garden/Hyde Park where Sunday mornings are a vast out door art gallery w/ every medium and price (an quality). You can stroll along the park, view thousands of works of art, talk to the artists, maybe buy something, and end up at Speakers Corner.

BigRuss

Speakers' Corner is not a must. When we (not royal we, significant other and I) were there, we went by twice. In the mid-to-late morning there were the religious &quot;Jesus is Life&quot; freaks battling for talk time with the enviro nutters claiming that the sky would fall in the next hour.

In the late afternoon, we saw tons of young Arab and Islamic males chattering about how Israel is evil, Sharon is the devil, etc. and a couple of lone Jews defending against the nuttiness. (Speakers' Corner is also at the end of Edgware Road, which is London's &quot;Arab Street&quot; -- quite literally because many Arab immigrants to the UK live on or near it -- and the bookstores on Edgware Road sell sizeable quantities of Arab translations of Mein Kampf).

Tulips

It's really true that Londoners don't have afternoon tea; the Brits you saw in the Ritz might be out of towners or Londoners entertaining relatives. People are always concerned about not doing the 'touristy' stuff; afternoon tea definitely falls under that category! Although if you must, afternoon tea before the theatre is a good idea.
If you want a restaurant near the V&amp;A, I can recommend St Quentin; French restaurant opposite the Brompton Oratory. Has been there for ages. Although if you have dinner after the theatre, you will find that places near the theatre district are busier at that time of night. There is a very popular restaurant in Covent Garden called Mon Plaisir; the oldest French restaurant in London. Very nice atmosphere, and not too far from Les Mis.
By the way, not far from your hotel, on Brompton Road, is Patisserie Valerie; good for breakfast, pastries (and indeed, tea)

flanneruk

vmcenroe:

mkingdom is being unchacteristically quiet, so let's address this tea thing.

Tea - the surrogate meal, not the drink - is supposed to be taken around 4. A damnfool time for any meal if you're working, or running a family - or anything any real person would do.

In fairly recent history (19th century), tea in this sense was a social event indulged in by the leisured classes. A group who've more or less disappeared.

Since roughly the time PG Wodehouse wrote his first novel, the activity has become an occasional treat for economically active Brits on reasonably well-defined occasions (like a break during a shopping expedition or part of the ritual for visiting twee villages or stately homes). Occasions that aren't that common, unless you're retired. And by and large, it's a girl thing (real men in Britain happily eat quiche, as long as it's stuffed with cheese and lardons, but are usually very leery of tea, the posh meal. A cup of tea to wash down a bacon sandwich at breakfast, OTOH, is a real assertion of masculinity).

It's obvious why we don't do tea. Why do tourists do it? No idea.

Why do tourists not only do it but pay &pound;25 or so at hotels and the like? Even less idea. Except that there's one born every minute.

ira

American tourists, at least, do afternoon tea in London because it is very different and quite pleasant.

Poo Pooing the liesured classes is so naff.

offwego

The Market at Bermondsey is the one you want. A bit harder to find than Portobello but worth it. We went early--like 7am and it was heaven. If you've ever wondered what has happened to the world's silver reserves, the mountains of silverware at Bermondsey will answer that question.

you might want to check out a book called &quot;Antique Flea Markets of London and Paris&quot;. They sell it on Amazon. It's a great resource if you're into markets.

vmcenroe

I'm afraid Bermondsey may be out of the way for us. Are there any comments about Petticoat Lane or Covent Garden market with the street entertainers?